April 26, 2015, 03:41:59 PM

Author Topic: EOS M4 wish list  (Read 1930 times)

Tanispyre

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 10:41:01 AM »
My EOS M4 wish list is very simple:

For sale in the USA.


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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2015, 10:41:01 AM »

Tanispyre

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #16 on: April 25, 2015, 10:44:52 AM »
And please don't let it get any bigger. 

HaroldC3

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 12:36:48 PM »

I look at the ef-m 55-200 and think, why would you want that on an M.... or if you really did why wouldn't you buy the adaptor, the Ef-s 55-250 and a half decent meal for you and the wife instead?


I think the attached picture says all that needs to be said.

That being the case, I still decided t keep the 55-250mm STM lens as the performance can't be beat and the extra 50mm is very handy.

dcm

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #18 on: April 25, 2015, 01:28:16 PM »

I look at the ef-m 55-200 and think, why would you want that on an M.... or if you really did why wouldn't you buy the adaptor, the Ef-s 55-250 and a half decent meal for you and the wife instead?


I think the attached picture says all that needs to be said.

That being the case, I still decided t keep the 55-250mm STM lens as the performance can't be beat and the extra 50mm is very handy.

Agreed - the picture says it all.  Had them both as well.  Preferred the 55-200 for size and weight - just wasn't using the larger lens.  The extra 50 didn't matter as much to me.  I preferred the extra 400 on my Tamron if I really wanted reach.  For performance I'll use my FF.   Gave away the 55-250 STM with my T2i to a deserving couple. 

Another benefit of the EF-M lenses that is noticeable with the M3 is manual focus.  The AF/MF switch is on the body, the camera controls the focus mode which makes it more usable with focus peaking.  While using the EVF, I can compose, auto focus (BBF), and touch MF button to turn on focus peaking to verify and fine tune focus without taking my eye away from the EVF or the screen.  The EF/EF-S lenses must be switched manually on the lens to change modes - they can't be switched electronically.
Shooting with Canon since 1982.

Tinky

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2015, 08:33:16 PM »
The picture says one thing to me:

Neither is going to fit in your pocket. 

Thanks for the very patronising explainations.   Which totally missed the obvious point, contexualised if you'd read the whole frigging post.  You might be 40% lighter and 35% smaller, but you are still negating the very advantage of a csc camera.   Add a telezoom and folks are really no better served than with a compact DSLR.

So, do you spend double the money on a lens you can only use on your M, or do you spend half the money on a lens that will also work on your rebel or your 7D?

I think if you fit anything other than a pancake to an M and you've lost the size benefit.  Thats why I see the real strength of the M as being a gateway to the EF system, and why canon shouldn't invest too much in duplication of focal lengths that already exist.   Perhaps the exception would be collapsable standard and telephoto primes.

The M22 doesn't exist in any other format and is playing to the strengths of the CSC concept.  I would argue that none of their other current EF-m lenses are.  And that is a big part of the reason the system hasn't set the world alight.

Exisiting EOS users don't want another lens system.  Canons marketing has been so abysmal that I don't think anybody else is buying them.  Other than on the basis of the fire price tickets.

And I say all of this as a great fan of the camera from a design, user & iq point of view.   


« Last Edit: April 25, 2015, 08:40:26 PM by Tinky »
EOS 3, 7D, 60D, 20D, M, 300x, Arsat 80mm TS, Samyangs f1.4 35 & 85, m22 f2.0, m18-55, 100 2.0, 70-200 2.8L, Sigma 18-50 2.8, 50mm f1.4, 70mm f2.8, Tokina 11-16 2.8, 400 5.6 and lots and lots of grip, lights, sound gear.

dcm

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2015, 09:37:23 PM »
The picture says one thing to me:

Neither is going to fit in your pocket.

Thanks for the very patronising explainations.   You might be 40% lighter and 35% smaller, but you are still negating the very advantage of a csc camera.   Add a telezoom and folks are really no better served than with a compact DSLR.

So, do you spend double the money on a lens you can only use on your M, or do you spend half the money on a lens that will also work on your rebel or your 7D?

I think if you fit anything other than a pancake to an M and you've lost the size benefit.  Thats why I see the real strength of the M as being a gateway to the EF system, and why canon shouldn't invest too much in duplication of focal lengths that already exist.   Perhaps the exception would be collapsable standard and telephoto primes.

The M22 doesn't exist in any other format and is playing to the strengths of the CSC concept.  I would argue that none of their other current lenses are.  And that is a big part of the reason the system hasn't set the world alight.

Guess I take a broader view of compact system cameras (CSC).  It's not just a pocket camera to me - its a compact "system".  We may have different definitions of pocketable.   I don't carry phones or cameras in my pants pockets.  I have carried the M, 11-22, 55-200, and a spare bettery in my jacket pockets to an event so I didn't have to carry a separate bag.  Worked just fine for me.

I started with a Rebel, but replaced it with a 6D / M combo.  The M replaced my DSLR system for most hiking, fishing, and similar uses.  The M, 11-22 and the 55-200 is smaller  and weighs much less than my DSLR kit, yet still gives me some options on the trail while letting me carry a smaller pack.   It's also much cheaper than my FF and L glass.   The M is my APS system.

There are occasions where the goal of my hike is the photography so I'll carry my FF DSLR kit in a larger pack with a tripod.   And in the few cases I really want only a small pocket camera, my S110 or camera phone are okay.

I do agree that a couple of small, fast primes would be a nice addition to the M system for both your purposes and mine. 
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Tinky

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2015, 10:27:29 PM »


That being the case, I still decided t keep the 55-250mm STM lens as the performance can't be beat and the extra 50mm is very handy.

So you opted to keep the more compatable, cheaper lens with wider range and better performance after you bought the more expensive, exclusive mount lens with less flexibility and poorer performance.

I think that says it all. 

40% size, 35% weight.  Sounds very impressive when you are maybe talking about large aperture metal bodied great whites.  We are talking about fairly compact, fairly light bits of kit.  Whats lighter, your plastic bodied lens or my plastic bodied lens?  115gm difference.  Gosh, I'll need to leave that extra banana behind then.  Oh no!

Oh yours is more compact.  That's great, so it'll fit in a pocket then?  No.  Oh dear.

And it only cost you double?  Thats great.  etc etc etc
EOS 3, 7D, 60D, 20D, M, 300x, Arsat 80mm TS, Samyangs f1.4 35 & 85, m22 f2.0, m18-55, 100 2.0, 70-200 2.8L, Sigma 18-50 2.8, 50mm f1.4, 70mm f2.8, Tokina 11-16 2.8, 400 5.6 and lots and lots of grip, lights, sound gear.

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2015, 10:27:29 PM »

crashpc

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #22 on: Today at 10:09:43 AM »
I decided to not buy M3 for current money. Not great step-up enaugh.

M4 should be healthy and competing model:

25Mpx+ AA-filter-less sensor,  with on-chip ADC (lower noise floor)
8 FPS and 32-40 shots of buffer depth.
built-in EVF

That´s all. Nothing unreal.

What I really need to not jump elsewhere is more M lenses. Especially 50mm f/1,8 IS STM would really make me stay with Canon.

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #23 on: Today at 11:08:11 AM »
25Mpx+ AA-filter-less sensor,  with on-chip ADC (lower noise floor)
That´s all. Nothing unreal.

Just completely change their sensor fab process.  That's all.   ;)
EOS 1D X, EOS M, and lots of lenses
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neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #24 on: Today at 11:39:54 AM »
So, do you spend double the money on a lens you can only use on your M, or do you spend half the money on a lens that will also work on your rebel or your 7D?

I think if you fit anything other than a pancake to an M and you've lost the size benefit.

I don't have any APS-C cameras other than the M, so compatibility with them isn't a benefit.

The M + M11-22 or M18-55 fits in a small pouch on my belt.  The SL1 + 10-18 or 18-55 would not.

Guess I take a broader view of compact system cameras (CSC).  It's not just a pocket camera to me - its a compact "system".

Exactly.  Consider my full 'M kit' – EOS M, M22, M18-55, M11-22, 270EX II – compared to the equivalent dSLR kit, e.g. SL1, 24/2.8, 18-55, 10-18, same flash.  The latter is much bulkier, the former fits nicely in the compact ThinkTank Mirrorless Mover 20.



My complete M kit takes up about the same amount of space as just my 1D X + 24-70. 

I just returned from a trip to Europe with my family (wife + three young kids).  The M + 11-22 on my belt and the other two lenses in a regular backpack (along with snacks, diapers, etc.) made it very easy to get around with the family during the day in Paris, and late at night I went out without kids but with tripod, 1D X, 24-70/2.8 II, TS-E 17 and Rokinon 14/2.8.

Lots of size benefit to the M ecosystem...
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crashpc

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #25 on: Today at 12:57:57 PM »
25Mpx+ AA-filter-less sensor,  with on-chip ADC (lower noise floor)
That´s all. Nothing unreal.

Just completely change their sensor fab process.  That's all.   ;)

They have to do it anyway. Nothing unreal. They do it sooner or later, or they end their business...

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #26 on: Today at 01:14:59 PM »
25Mpx+ AA-filter-less sensor,  with on-chip ADC (lower noise floor)
That´s all. Nothing unreal.

Just completely change their sensor fab process.  That's all.   ;)

They have to do it anyway. Nothing unreal. They do it sooner or later, or they end their business...

Really?  What makes you think that's true?  The sensors in dSLRs and MILCs from many (most? all?) of Canon's competitors use on-die ADCs...and have for some time.  Has Canon lost market share to them?  Is it because of the lack of on-chip ADCs?   

The vast majority of consumers neither know nor care about these issues.  The vast majority of consumers don't push their exposure 4-stops in post, either.

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smozes

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #27 on: Today at 02:00:51 PM »


That being the case, I still decided t keep the 55-250mm STM lens as the performance can't be beat and the extra 50mm is very handy.

So you opted to keep the more compatable, cheaper lens with wider range and better performance after you bought the more expensive, exclusive mount lens with less flexibility and poorer performance.

I think that says it all. 

40% size, 35% weight.  Sounds very impressive when you are maybe talking about large aperture metal bodied great whites.  We are talking about fairly compact, fairly light bits of kit.  Whats lighter, your plastic bodied lens or my plastic bodied lens?  115gm difference.  Gosh, I'll need to leave that extra banana behind then.  Oh no!

Oh yours is more compact.  That's great, so it'll fit in a pocket then?  No.  Oh dear.

And it only cost you double?  Thats great.  etc etc etc

I have the M3 with all EF-M lenses. The entire kit is amazingly compact and unobtrusive.
EOS-M + 22mm, EF 50 1.8 II

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #27 on: Today at 02:00:51 PM »

TAF

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #28 on: Today at 02:04:59 PM »
Full frame and an EF mount.

That's all.

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Re: EOS M4 wish list
« Reply #28 on: Today at 02:04:59 PM »