March 26, 2017, 11:36:15 AM

Author Topic: EOS M5: A damend good camera!  (Read 7203 times)

bainsybike

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2017, 04:32:01 AM »
The big fails of the M5 are (1) lens IS is always on

No it isn't - you can disable it.  Don't you read the manual?

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #15 on: March 14, 2017, 04:32:01 AM »

Crosswind

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2017, 06:32:13 AM »
Though I can understand his critique; it's not the camera - it's the lens that lacks an IS ON/OFF switch. You can disable it, but for that you'd have to go into the menu - which is very inconvenient. There are some reasons why you'd want to quickly enable or disable it at times (saving energy when temporarily shooting at faster shutter speeds, tripod work, etc.) and there are no native EF-M lenses which feature such a thing, but some EF-S lenses for example do. Even when reviewing the pictures on the rear display, the IS doesn't stop working, which is completely unnecessary. This should be done automatically IMO, which could be fixed in a firmware upgrade. It'd definitely help saving some energy over a long period of time. And the battery life is already very limited for MILCs.

But these are only some of the reasons why I prefer to use non EF-M lenses and always leave my EF/EF-M adapter mounted on the camera. Some might argue "then why I'm not just using a small DSLR (like the rebel SL-series) instead?" - but then I wouldn't have all the advantages of a MILC.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 06:52:28 AM by Crosswind »

jolyonralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2017, 09:10:55 AM »
The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC.   I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.
Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M5/M3 & M1, Sony A6000, 7D, Nikon D90, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2017, 09:41:20 AM »
Though I can understand his critique; it's not the camera - it's the lens that lacks an IS ON/OFF switch. You can disable it, but for that you'd have to go into the menu - which is very inconvenient. There are some reasons why you'd want to quickly enable or disable it at times (saving energy when temporarily shooting at faster shutter speeds, tripod work, etc.) and there are no native EF-M lenses which feature such a thing, but some EF-S lenses for example do. Even when reviewing the pictures on the rear display, the IS doesn't stop working, which is completely unnecessary. This should be done automatically IMO, which could be fixed in a firmware upgrade. It'd definitely help saving some energy over a long period of time. And the battery life is already very limited for MILCs.

But these are only some of the reasons why I prefer to use non EF-M lenses and always leave my EF/EF-M adapter mounted on the camera. Some might argue "then why I'm not just using a small DSLR (like the rebel SL-series) instead?" - but then I wouldn't have all the advantages of a MILC.

I've run into the issue you mentioned when using continuous focus.  As long as the camera is on, it will continue to focus (go figure), even if you are doing something beside shooting at that time, which does drain the battery.  My initial solution was to turn the camera off when I wasn't shooting, but that is a bit inconvenient and not a solution if you want to view images on the camera. 

So, my current solution is to temporarily put the camera in manual focus mode by tapping the left side of the rear wheel (default setting "MF") with my thumb when I'm not shooting.  The camera will stop continuously auto focusing until you turn AF back on with another thumb tap.  This has worked pretty well for me, faster than turning the camera off/on or switching in and out of continuous auto focus mode.  Having a AF/MF switch on the lens would take longer. 
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 09:43:39 AM by bholliman »
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bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2017, 09:59:11 AM »
The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC.   I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.

All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages.  You have to make a personal decision between what is available in the market and your personal preferences and budget.  The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition.  And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).


What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 since it was a small camera.  Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5.  Personally, I'm glad they did.
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bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2017, 10:27:17 AM »
The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC.   I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.

All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages.  You have to make a personal decision between what is available in the market and your personal preferences and budget.  The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition.  And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).


What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 because I wanted a small camera.  Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5.  Personally, I'm glad they did.
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« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 01:00:57 PM by bholliman »
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jolyonralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 11:45:56 AM »

The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition.  And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).

I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 since it was a small camera.  Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5.  Personally, I'm glad they did.

Actually, my comment about being 2 years behind Sony had nothing to do with 4K. I was comparing the M5 with the Sony A6000, which doesn't have 4K either. But what the Sony does have is comparable focus speed and similar image quality in low light (ie Canon have finally caught up).  So, the M5 is comparable sensor and focus-wise with the A6000 which was launched in 2014. My biggest ergonomic problem with the M5 is the position of the 'menu' button in the bottom right corner where it's very easily triggered by my palm. Similarly the video record button is often hit by accident.  The A6000 is slightly wider so doesn't have such a cramped button issue.

Of course, if you have a lot of EF lenses (as I do!) then the M5 is a better choice to use with those lenses (which, after all is why I own the M5 now.)  There is a poor selection of native EF-M lenses now (compared with a wide range for E mount) although the EF-M lenses I own I am very happy with. The M5 also has a much nicer screen and better viewfinder than the A6000.

Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M5/M3 & M1, Sony A6000, 7D, Nikon D90, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2017, 11:45:56 AM »

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2017, 01:20:47 PM »

Actually, my comment about being 2 years behind Sony had nothing to do with 4K. I was comparing the M5 with the Sony A6000, which doesn't have 4K either. But what the Sony does have is comparable focus speed and similar image quality in low light (ie Canon have finally caught up).  So, the M5 is comparable sensor and focus-wise with the A6000 which was launched in 2014. My biggest ergonomic problem with the M5 is the position of the 'menu' button in the bottom right corner where it's very easily triggered by my palm. Similarly the video record button is often hit by accident.  The A6000 is slightly wider so doesn't have such a cramped button issue.

Of course, if you have a lot of EF lenses (as I do!) then the M5 is a better choice to use with those lenses (which, after all is why I own the M5 now.)  There is a poor selection of native EF-M lenses now (compared with a wide range for E mount) although the EF-M lenses I own I am very happy with. The M5 also has a much nicer screen and better viewfinder than the A6000.

Looking at the specs, the M5 is similar to the current Sony A6500 for stills, at a 30% lower price.  I'm sure both have pluses and minuses.

I agree that the menu button and video record buttons could be in a better locations.  I've reconfigured the M-fn button to record video, so that one is easily dealt with, but the menu button can't be changed.  A minor issue in my opinion, but something that could be improved in future versions.
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jolyonralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2017, 01:26:53 PM »
The menu button is a real shame because it was one of my biggest gripes about the M3. They fixed my biggest complaint about the M3 (no real on/off switch).

As for comparing A6500 with M5 - I've not used the A6500 so I can't say. But I have used the M3, the M5 and the A6000 extensively, and in my experience the A6000 and the M5 are comparable in image quality and focus with the M3 trailing in both.

But Canon really do need to do something about startup time. This is inexcusable seeing as they've moved to the Digic 7 chip on the m5 there is absolutely no reason why it should be slower than the M3. There's no point having any camera if you've missed the shot in the time it's taken to turn on.
Jolyon Ralph

Cameras: 5DSR, A7RII, 5D III, EOS M5/M3 & M1, Sony A6000, 7D, Nikon D90, DXO One.  Oh, and more lenses than I care to count.

bholliman

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2017, 03:54:32 PM »
As for comparing A6500 with M5 - I've not used the A6500 so I can't say. But I have used the M3, the M5 and the A6000 extensively, and in my experience the A6000 and the M5 are comparable in image quality and focus with the M3 trailing in both.

But Canon really do need to do something about startup time. This is inexcusable seeing as they've moved to the Digic 7 chip on the m5 there is absolutely no reason why it should be slower than the M3. There's no point having any camera if you've missed the shot in the time it's taken to turn on.

My only experience with the Sony A series is playing with demo units at Best Buy, so I'll defer to your hands on experience.  The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right?  I would imagine the M5's touch and drag focusing using the LCD is a big plus for the M5.

Start up time for the M5 is slow.  I can't say it's been a real issue for me however, but could be a problem if you wanted to grab a quick shot.  I would think it could be corrected with a firmware update.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2017, 06:43:35 PM by bholliman »
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Crosswind

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2017, 01:50:41 AM »
Ok, the only thing I've found to be a bit slow and unneccessary is, when you switch between the shooting modes via the P, Av, Tv, M dial. I have turned off tips&tricks in the menu, but everytime I switch, it shows me the mode I've just selected on the display for about 1sec. (or even longer, didn't measure) and I cannot do anything in the meantime! I don't need that. Annoying stuff (but I can deal with it, as I'm more into landscapes).

Now but if I'm in a hurry, that might be an issue (street photography, weddings, festivals, frequently changing situations, etc...). It might take a splitsecond too long to finally be able to shoot, after I've switched from Av to Tv mode for example. Should be fixed in a firmware upgrade for the Canon EOS M5.

P.S.: One thing I want to add about the in-camera RAW processing; the M5 allows you to select and then process multiple pictures at once (you couldn't do that with the 6D).
« Last Edit: March 16, 2017, 05:26:20 AM by Crosswind »

JoFT

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #26 on: Today at 08:20:58 AM »
The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting.

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC.   I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.


I do not see the M5 behind the Sony's. Both have advantages and disadvantages. They are different.


You can shoot the M5 tethered-wireless. But only on iOS or other mobile devices.


Loading via USB is a nice feature which is not standard at Panasonic in most of their models, too....


And one bid advantage: lens selection. Even if there are not that many native lenses available: there are a lot of lenses available and really good ones. Still much better than with Sony. And they are compatible with my 5D4....




But I agree, there is space for improvement, and this is a lot. I hope Canon is going to do so.
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jolyonralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #27 on: Today at 10:06:32 AM »
One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)

Has this happened to anyone else?  With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.

Also, the EVF is not as nice to use as the external one on the M3. For one thing it doesn't have enough rubber cup to it so that you get lots of light leakage in from the sides, especially if you're also trying to do thumb focus pointing at the same time. It doesn't appear that it is easy to replace it with a larger third-party one. This spoils it somewhat.  Was shooting the M3 and the M5 side by side today. The M3 viewfinder is much nicer to use.

It does seem the M5 is in many ways two steps forward and one step back from the M3.  Of course, the focusing is much better on the M5.

Jolyon Ralph

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #27 on: Today at 10:06:32 AM »

dak723

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #28 on: Today at 10:16:01 AM »
One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)

Has this happened to anyone else?  With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.

I have accidentally pressed the custom buttons on the wheel while shooting, which I assume is what happened to you.  I use 3 or 4 of the custom buttons and have set the others to be off (have no setting).

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Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!
« Reply #28 on: Today at 10:16:01 AM »