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Author Topic: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)  (Read 2744 times)

criza

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Hello!

I have a nFD 135mm f/2 lens converted to EF mount with the EdMika kit. I like the pictures I take with this lens, but from time to time the pictures have a weird "white fog" (is it ghosting?) overlaying the subject. I don't know why it happens, neither can I predict when it happens. I would appreciate it if anyone could give me a hint what is causing this white fog. I have shot very little with the lens, but I'm guessing the white fog thing happens only when the subject has a particular distance from the lens..is this possible? Please have a look at the picture. Thanks!

« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 12:41:48 PM by criza »

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RLPhoto

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Re: "White fog" on pictures..
« Reply #1 on: October 16, 2012, 12:14:03 PM »
Hello!

I have a nFD 135mm f/2 lens converted to EF mount with the EdMika kit. I like the pictures I take with this lens, but from time to time the pictures have a weird "white fog" (is it ghosting?) overlaying the subject. I don't know why it happens, neither can I predict when it happens. I would appreciate it if anyone could give me a hint what is causing this white fog. I have shot very little with the lens, but I'm guessing the white fog thing happens only when the subject has a particular distance from the lens..is this possible? Please have a look at the picture. Thanks!




could be fungus or hazing inside the lens.
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2n10

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Re: "White fog" on pictures..
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2012, 12:24:37 PM »
Looks like glare from the light source.  I get that with lenses prone to flare issues.  Check out if you are using filters that they are not a cause along with your hood if you are using one.  Looks almost like you have a petal hood and the light source is reaching your filter or front element.
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criza

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Re: "White fog" on pictures..
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2012, 12:41:08 PM »
I haven't used filters with this lens, and it has a built in lens hood, no petal, but a cylindrical one. I thought the same first, that it's flare, but on the picture above there was only diffuse light shining through the covered sky, how can this cause flare at all?

I don't think it's fungus. When I look through the lens I just see a fair amount of dust particles, most are kinda transparent and there are just a couple of more whitely dust specks. I don't see any haze inside the lens or on the outer optics, although I have never seen a hazy lens before...

EDIT: And if it would be haze, it would be appear on more pictures, and not only on a very small percentage, or am I wrong with this assumption?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2012, 12:43:42 PM by criza »

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Re: "White fog" on pictures..
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2012, 12:45:10 PM »
I haven't used filters with this lens, and it has a built in lens hood, no petal, but a cylindrical one. I thought the same first, that it's flare, but on the picture above there was only diffuse light shining through the covered sky, how can this cause flare at all?

I don't think it's fungus. When I look through the lens I just see a fair amount of dust particles, most are kinda transparent and there are just a couple of more whitely dust specks. I don't see any haze inside the lens or on the outer optics, although I have never seen a hazy lens before...

EDIT: And if it would be haze, it would be appear on more pictures, and not only on a very small percentage, or am I wrong with this assumption?

haze is usually caused by the internal lubricants running over the optics over time. It's a common problem on older FD lenses and sometime isn't noticed at all. It looks like haze on this lens and may affect certain focusing distances.
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criza

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Re: "White fog" on pictures..
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2012, 12:57:22 PM »
haze is usually caused by the internal lubricants running over the optics over time. It's a common problem on older FD lenses and sometime isn't noticed at all. It looks like haze on this lens and may affect certain focusing distances.

Thanks Ramon. Now I'm sad! And you are most probably right, while converting the lens there was some lubricant all over the "back part" of the lens. I can't remember exactly where but I saw it. I will disassemble the new mount again and maybe wipe the visible and reachable lubricant away. Maybe this will help a bit, but I don't think so. The lubricant has gone probably already inside the lens, between the glass..do you have any advice how to get rid of the haze (if it'll get worse), except disassembling the whole lens?

//Chris

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Re: "White fog" on pictures..
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2012, 12:59:41 PM »
haze is usually caused by the internal lubricants running over the optics over time. It's a common problem on older FD lenses and sometime isn't noticed at all. It looks like haze on this lens and may affect certain focusing distances.

Thanks Ramon. Now I'm sad! And you are most probably right, while converting the lens there was some lubricant all over the "back part" of the lens. I can't remember exactly where but I saw it. I will disassemble the new mount again and maybe wipe the visible and reachable lubricant away. Maybe this will help a bit, but I don't think so. The lubricant has gone probably already inside the lens, between the glass..do you have any advice how to get rid of the haze (if it'll get worse), except disassembling the whole lens?

//Chris

At that point, Wipe what you can away with some Pec-pads and hope it gets better. It may solve the problem.

If not, just shoot lomography. It can still look nice on low contrast portraits.  ;D
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Re: "White fog" on pictures..
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2012, 12:59:41 PM »

markbyland

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #7 on: October 16, 2012, 02:20:08 PM »
Do the light inspection test by taking a small flash light and, while looking through the rear of the lens, shine the light through the front and start to take a good look around the different elements. Many things you've never seen before about your lens will instantly become visible. If there is haze, it will appear as a soft glow on the culprit element. Some of this can be cleaned, it's not damaging but aggravating in terms of what it does to overall image quality. Adds a soft diffuse glow to a lot of subjects in certain lighting situations.

Pay attention to any dust particle with any kind of circle forming around it, that's early stage fungus developing. It's best to get any lens with fungus off the camera and leave it off until the fungus has been cleaned as it can spread to other pieces of gear, although contagious cases are rare unless some thing is severely affected by it.

Any dust particle which has moved in to the stages of looking like a spider web or small frost formation may be well to the point of actually causing damage to the glass. Fungus growths can emit an acid which can and will etch in to the coatings first, then the glass.

If you find any of the above afflictions inside of your lens, especially fungus, remove it from the camera and refrain from using it have it CLA'd by a professional who has the tools to take the lens apart and clean internal elements.

These defects all tend to start from moisture being introduced some where in the lens. Either a wet, dew soaked morning, the same goes for night time photography where dew has formed on the camera, or just simply being stored in a not-so-optimal environment with no silicon dessicant.

I have experienced a lot of issues with some plastics and how they interfere with external elements. Ever notice how when you buy a filter it has a ton of haze all over it, yet it's brand new? It's the off-gassing of the plastic and foam used inside that is reacting with the glass and the coatings to create some sort of haze on the surface of the lens or filter. It's incredibly common on older filters and lenses when stored in older containers utilizing products like old open-cell foam, foam padded filter cases, etc. the foam and plastic material break down over time and will cause glass to draw these materials to its surface as a 'reaction' to the breaking down of the petroleum based materials.

There is no science to it all and this information is in regard to the literally hundreds of used and new lenses that pass through my hands on a weekly basis. If you think your lens is affected by any thing at all, try and find a local person who is willing to work on things for a fair price.

-mb

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #8 on: October 16, 2012, 04:20:28 PM »
I'd take the lens to a local repair shop and have it cleaned.  If its not a expensive lens, just get another one.
Older FD lenses have sometimes been left in the trunk of a car, and the heat liquifies the grease, or the lubricant jusp plain separates and runs into everything.  This happens to all older lenses, its the lubricants available at the time.  Cleaning and relubing with a modern lube will fix it for another 50 years or more.

criza

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2012, 10:40:49 AM »
Do the light inspection test [...]

There is no science to it all and this information is in regard to the literally hundreds of used and new lenses that pass through my hands on a weekly basis. If you think your lens is affected by any thing at all, try and find a local person who is willing to work on things for a fair price.
-mb

Wow, thanks a lot for this detailed write up! May I ask you where you work, just out of curiosity?

After inspecting the lens I noticed (almost?) no haze, but there were these very little spider webs on the last element/glass (next to the mount) of the lens. Not the glass you can reach when dismounting the lens, but the next one.

It's incredibly common on older filters and lenses when stored in older containers utilizing products like old open-cell foam, foam padded filter cases, etc. the foam and plastic material break down over time and will cause glass to draw these materials to its surface as a 'reaction' to the breaking down of the petroleum based materials.

I guess that's exactly what happened to my lens. I bought in on Ebay and the seller sent it to me in a non original Vivitar case, which is padded inside, and only the smell inside the case wasn't very pleasant..

try and find a local person who is willing to work on things for a fair price.

I will try, there is one repair shop for lenses and he does all kind of repair jobs. Maybe you can tell me another person/address who would disassemble the lens for me? I believe I would be capable to do it myself, but if I would succeed to put it back together is another question.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2012, 10:44:06 AM by criza »

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2012, 11:58:46 AM »
I saw very similar looking effects when I tried some of my old FD lenses with an adapter.
It was far worse at wide apertures, improved as stopped down.
I think it's basically the poor quality of lens coatings of the old FDs and the adapter lens which cause internal reflections to disperse light and kill contrast.  Effect varies with different lenses, focal lengths etc.

Toss 'em and get some new glass or get some old Nikkor lenses instead, they don't require a corrective lens adapter and they had slightly better coatings to start with so are more compatible with the somewhat reflective image sensors vs more matte and less reflective film they were originally designed for.

markbyland

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2012, 12:01:42 PM »

I will try, there is one repair shop for lenses and he does all kind of repair jobs. Maybe you can tell me another person/address who would disassemble the lens for me? I believe I would be capable to do it myself, but if I would succeed to put it back together is another question.


Some times we send batches of Leica hardware to these guys and they do an excellent job. They've cleaned other pieces for us in the past and have done a wonderful job saving gear that we thought might not make the cut.

http://vermontcamera.com/

I'm pretty sure he'll work on just about any thing. As far as rates, I'm out of that loop so you'd just have to let him know what you have and I'm sure he'll work some thing out for you.

Hope that helps you out some!

-mb
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ontarian

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 11:20:39 PM »
I saw very similar looking effects when I tried some of my old FD lenses with an adapter.
It was far worse at wide apertures, improved as stopped down.
I think it's basically the poor quality of lens coatings of the old FDs and the adapter lens which cause internal reflections to disperse light and kill contrast.  Effect varies with different lenses, focal lengths etc.

Toss 'em and get some new glass or get some old Nikkor lenses instead, they don't require a corrective lens adapter and they had slightly better coatings to start with so are more compatible with the somewhat reflective image sensors vs more matte and less reflective film they were originally designed for.

I respectfully disagree, the FD glass has IQ and coating performance that is no worse than similar vintage Nikkor glass.  The spider web being described is a common fungus pattern and is the likely culprit of the visible haze.  I have a very hairy 50-300 4.5L I got off eBay with a broken mount that I rebuilt with one of my kits recently and a couple of mint same lens copies and the IQ of the shots between the fungsy and clean ones is dramatically different.

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #12 on: October 18, 2012, 11:20:39 PM »

Aglet

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2012, 10:20:25 PM »
I respectfully disagree, the FD glass has IQ and coating performance that is no worse than similar vintage Nikkor glass.  The spider web being described is a common fungus pattern and is the likely culprit of the visible haze.  I have a very hairy 50-300 4.5L I got off eBay with a broken mount that I rebuilt with one of my kits recently and a couple of mint same lens copies and the IQ of the shots between the fungsy and clean ones is dramatically different.

Yup, I missed the post where OP said he found his fungus inside.

Still, the FD lenses I tried were awful with the adapter. Problem was more likely with the adapter I was using but just the same, the effect was a very washed out image that was worse in the center until stopped down.

OTOH, just got me a fungus-spotted 400mm recently that still makes a pretty good image tho I'd like to open it up and remove it before it gets worse.

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Re: "White fog" on pictures.. (EdMika converted nFD 135mm f/2 to EF lens)
« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2012, 10:20:25 PM »