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Author Topic: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus  (Read 58787 times)

echelonphoto

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #195 on: December 27, 2012, 12:13:29 PM »
There is another post on this forum that refers to AF problems in low light 6d vs Mk3

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11851.0

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #195 on: December 27, 2012, 12:13:29 PM »

echelonphoto

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #196 on: December 31, 2012, 03:01:56 PM »
Looks like this thread is winding down....i am still longing for a solution...photographed a party
last week...used the mark2 and Mark3 about 1/2 each...using the 2 for the higher action shots.
I really love the sharpness and smoothness of the Mark3 file...skin tones are very nice on this
camera compared to the Mark2....so maybe they need to bring back the mk2 af...so I can get the
most out of this camera.

RustyTheGeek

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #197 on: December 31, 2012, 04:50:39 PM »
Simply put, the 6D outperforms the 5D3 for low light focusing.  It's as if we need a "6.5D" to combine the 6D AF and the 5D3 AF to gain the best of both worlds.  Geez.
Yes, but what would  surapon  say ??  :D

echelonphoto

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #198 on: January 02, 2013, 04:19:26 PM »
I think its all a big conspiracy

echelonphoto

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #199 on: January 05, 2013, 01:42:54 PM »
Canon gave the mark 3 ability to shoot noislessly in low light and an absolutely excellent radio controlled
flash system....but dropped the ball with this af problem....that's Canon for you ...one step forward and then
two steps backwards....I guess they can fix this on the Mk4 and dupe more people into spending money.

Marsu42

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #200 on: January 05, 2013, 03:07:31 PM »
Simply put, the 6D outperforms the 5D3 for low light focusing.

Having neither access to a 5d3 or 6d, but wanting to decide for one sooner or later it's rather difficult because it's very fuzzy what "low light" is (few people posting state their lens, object distance + shutter&aperture) - and how fast either camera focuses with af assist disabled in lower light.

On the one hand, I am amazed how many people have this problem w/o an official Canon confirmation, on the other hand if the issue is really as severe as it appears to be for "5d3-like" situations there should be an even larger outcry - or Canon really changed something on the latest hardware?

Summing it up, I understand this is an important issue for lower-light shooting like events and receptions where even the up to -2lv 5d3 needs the af beam, and there is no solution in sight except probably using non-Canon flashes, correct?

RustyTheGeek

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #201 on: January 05, 2013, 03:45:16 PM »
Simply put, the 6D outperforms the 5D3 for low light focusing.

Having neither access to a 5d3 or 6d, but wanting to decide for one sooner or later it's rather difficult because it's very fuzzy what "low light" is (few people posting state their lens, object distance + shutter&aperture) - and how fast either camera focuses with af assist disabled in lower light.

On the one hand, I am amazed how many people have this problem w/o an official Canon confirmation, on the other hand if the issue is really as severe as it appears to be for "5d3-like" situations there should be an even larger outcry - or Canon really changed something on the latest hardware?

Summing it up, I understand this is an important issue for lower-light shooting like events and receptions where even the up to -2lv 5d3 needs the af beam, and there is no solution in sight except probably using non-Canon flashes, correct?

It's a frustrating issue for the reasons you state.  It's a moving target kind of intermittent problem because it seems like some folks have dealt with it in a big way, others aren't sure (or don't use or care about low light shooting) and still others don't see any problem whatsoever and seem to think the low light AF works better than anything they've ever seen.  I had a major problem with it myself, exchanged the camera and I now think it merely works OK, it's not a total show stopper anymore but it doesn't blow me away either.

I would suggest you rent or borrow both the 5D3 and the 6D and see for yourself based on how/what you shoot.  For me, I wouldn't have paid much attention to the 6D if the 5D3 had worked as well as I thought it should have in low light.  Focus hunting and missing shots doesn't  = 'working well'  to me.  As things stand at this point in time, my use bears out that the 6D works better in low light.  YMMV.

As for using non-Canon flashes, setting tweaks, etc I can't give you a good opinion because none of it matters in my use.  The functionality was the same in general no matter how I tried to help the problem.  I guess the AF Assist from a Yongnou 622C helps a little but I don't use AF Assist so it doesn't matter to me.  (I do have the 622C units, they are pretty neat but the beam cluster is a bit off center.)  The small SunPak RD2000 flash I have used for years doesn't have AF Assist, won't work with the 622C and I'm not going to start using a big flash just to gain the AF Assist beam that I never needed in the past with my 5Dc.  Plus, I don't like distracting people with flashing things in low light.  If you read my numerous posts earlier in this thread, I don't want to trade the embarrassment of poor AF delays for the embarrassment of flashing distractions in low light.  Just what I want in a church service, flashing patterns on the pastor, alter and front of the sanctuary.  (Now that I have a silent shutter!)

Sorry for the length.  Feel free to share your thoughts and experience and contact me if you like.  Good Luck! 
Yes, but what would  surapon  say ??  :D

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #201 on: January 05, 2013, 03:45:16 PM »

steliosk

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #202 on: January 05, 2013, 03:47:18 PM »
i face the same problem in 600D, while in older cameras such as 450D and 350D the af works ULTRA FAST.

600d + ex 580 II assist beam = slower focus

terrible lag on focus while the assist beam lits.
looks like the assist beam is litting a bit less in 600D rather than 350D
Bodies: 5D3 + 600D
Lenses: STM 40, EF 50 1.4, EF 85 1.8, EF 100L, EF 24-105L, EF 70-200 2.8 IS II, Samyang 14mm, Samyang 8mm Fisheye, EF-S 10-22, EF-S 15-85 and my old 350D + 18-55 IS II

Marsu42

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #203 on: January 05, 2013, 04:08:51 PM »
Sorry for the length.  Feel free to share your thoughts and experience and contact me if you like.  Good Luck!

Many thanks for summing it up from a user's perspective, that rather concludes it for me - the 5d3 is very expensive for me anyway, I'd rather get another lens (like 17-40L + filter) and some accessories for the price difference to the 6d, and apart from the 5d3 af assist problem the 5d3/1dx isn't tuned for the most of the lenses I use (100L, 17-40L, 70-300L).  Still a pity the 6d is so underspeced and I don't need the gimmicks, but then again no one prevents me from buying the 5d4 in 2015 if I ever go pro...

cocopop05

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #204 on: January 05, 2013, 04:57:07 PM »
Sorry for the length.  Feel free to share your thoughts and experience and contact me if you like.  Good Luck!

Many thanks for summing it up from a user's perspective, that rather concludes it for me - the 5d3 is very expensive for me anyway, I'd rather get another lens (like 17-40L + filter) and some accessories for the price difference to the 6d, and apart from the 5d3 af assist problem the 5d3/1dx isn't tuned for the most of the lenses I use (100L, 17-40L, 70-300L).  Still a pity the 6d is so underspeced and I don't need the gimmicks, but then again no one prevents me from buying the 5d4 in 2015 if I ever go pro...

Forgive my ignorance, I am quite new to photography.  I would like to understand how the 5D3/1DX are not tuned for those L lenses?  And can the camera's settings tune the camera to those lenses?

Marsu42

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #205 on: January 05, 2013, 05:38:04 PM »
Forgive my ignorance, I am quite new to photography.  I would like to understand how the 5D3/1DX are not tuned for those L lenses?  And can the camera's settings tune the camera to those lenses?

This is rather ot, but fyi: Download the manual, look under "lens groups" - the full potential of the 1dx/5d3 af is with few lenses (like the 70-200/2.8is2, 24-70ii) and the af spread and precision (double cross, cross, ...) degrades in lower lens groups. This is constantly missed by many 5d3 reviews, it's a shame that reviewers don't deem it necessary to flip through the manual. The lens groups are fixed and not settable in firmware, and it'll stay that way because of the lens' hardware - i.e. that's why the 24-70mk1 is in a lower group than the mk2.

Of course the 5d3 has a much more stellar af even with my lenses than the disappointing 6d af system, and the newer lenses like the 70-300L are much more precise in contrast to the 6d (see the lensrentals review on the 6d af) - but with f4 it's not the full potential, and precision matters most with large apertures (or macro, which is a problem for me on the 60d).

Imho the 5d1/1dx is meant for the current f2.8 zooms and expensive primes, while the 6d is "anti-tuned" for it because all outer points have no f2.8-precision and the center point has non-cross precision for f2.8 (it's a horizontal overlay over the f4 cross) - thanks, Canon... see also a neighbor thread mentioned above about 100L vs 200L on 5d3 in lower light.

echelonphoto

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #206 on: January 09, 2013, 10:52:46 AM »
thats all very good....but what good are cross sensors if they take 2 secs to acheive focus in low light situations?

sanj

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #207 on: January 09, 2013, 11:37:49 AM »
thats all very good....but what good are cross sensors if they take 2 secs to acheive focus in low light situations?

+1

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #207 on: January 09, 2013, 11:37:49 AM »

echelonphoto

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #208 on: January 11, 2013, 10:55:23 AM »
The most important camera feature for any pro is consistency and reliability.....all the rest is froth! Everyone call
Canon about the fact that we are being embarrassed on the job.

AudioGlenn

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #209 on: January 12, 2013, 03:32:56 AM »
I can't seem to duplicate this issue.  My 5d mk3 and 600 ex-rt work just fine in almost total darkness with the AF assist beam firing.  It locks focus faster with the beam than without it.  i tried focusing on my solid black surround sound speakers in total darkness and everything works just fine.  maybe I'm just lucky.

for those of you with issues, i wish you luck in finding a solution.
5D mkIII  |  40 f/2.8 | 8-15 f/4L | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 1.4x III TC | 600ex-rt | 430 ex ii | EOS M+22mm f/2 | EF to EF-M adapter

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Re: 5D3 & 600ex-rt + AF assist beam = slower focus
« Reply #209 on: January 12, 2013, 03:32:56 AM »