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Author Topic: 1Dx simple DR stress test  (Read 11657 times)

dtaylor

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2012, 06:22:43 PM »
so you people do not think it is a wise way for Canon to either buy Sony sensors  fast as he...  or show that they can do anything similar as Sony, Panasonic, Omnivision, Aptina???????????????????

I think I'm going to buy a 5D3 just to annoy you  ;D

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2012, 06:22:43 PM »

Ryan708

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2012, 06:25:20 PM »
Here we go
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dtaylor

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2012, 06:38:58 PM »
Here we go

I'm sorry...do you think that's a good example of DR? Try lifting those shadows in PS by 100%. See the noise? See the banding? Yuck!

You should have photographed that dead horse with an Exmor sensor, underexposed by 3 stops so we could all see how great Sony sensors are.

Pathetic man...really just pathetic  ;D

dave

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2012, 07:29:21 PM »
The old sensor tech in Canon  is not up to date 2012 and  in a comparison with Sony, not much to discuss

Please, then, stop discussing it. You wanted facts. The fact is you are embarrassing yourself.

You are spouting the same crap with same graphs and rubbish demo photos as you have done on dpreview for ages.

I actually looked at your gallery on dpreview as well and for all of your talk there are plenty of people here who posted pictures taken with rebels that have far more vision and creativity.

You are entitled to your opinion but please stop taking over all the threads. We get your point.


dtaylor

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2012, 07:34:58 PM »
The old sensor tech in Canon  is not up to date 2012 and  in a comparison with Sony, not much to discuss

Oh boy! A 7D now has more DR then a 5D3. LOL! Take that FF fans!  ;D

And the D800 has 100% perfectly efficient ADCs. I didn't think that was physically possible.

Funny that Imaging Resource was able to get 12.5 stops from the 5D3  ::)

Promature

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2012, 07:42:20 PM »
Can we all agree to just ban Mikael?
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AdamJ

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 07:57:39 PM »


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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 07:57:39 PM »

Tammy

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 08:06:14 PM »
so you people do not think it is a wise way for Canon to either buy Sony sensors  fast as he...  or show that they can do anything similar as Sony, Panasonic, Omnivision, Aptina???????????????????

No, i've had the discussion where, at some point, if Sony is outright making the best sensors by far that it would be fine/great if they were put in Canon SLRs to be used with the excellent lineup of lenses.

I would like to see what the new sensor tech on the coming Canon big MP sensor is like. If Canon is able to trump the image quality and dynamic range of even the Sony sensors, as is rumored, then no further discussion or ongoing comparisons, even in the future, is needed. ever.
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RLPhoto

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2012, 09:55:10 PM »
you are really boring, meet me with facts, the grill is only a illustration and it is boring but true

Yes, of course, because DR graphs and test charts are the most exciting thing's in photography.  :|

Michael, We already know that nikon/sony sensors are better but they're not that much better.
RLP photo , you are one of the denialing  persons who not  accept  measured data and at least 2 stops of DR avantage to Nikon and no banding

Ok, Nikon has 2 Stops of DR over Canon. Now go take some real photos Michael.

Aglet

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2012, 10:06:05 PM »
There are a lot of heated discussions about Canon versus SoNikon sensor DR performace, sensor technology, about DXO not measuring sensors correctlly in favour of Nikon  etc.
  So here is a simple DR stress test results for 1Dx shadow recovery limits for those who are interested:
  I did these tests to see  myself what is 1Dx is capable of.
Attached are 4 pictures (snapshots from LR4 screen by Win7 snipping tool):
1. 1Dx shot at ISO100 with EV = (-3 )   - showing 100% crop area shown below
2. Corrected with +3 EV in LR4, no shadow correction, no noise reduction applied
3. The same as #2 above with shadows raised to max 100%
4. The same as #3 above but with NR applied in LR  with L=40, C=40.
Results are self explanatory -  no further comments from me on this subject.
  Despite for what we see here regarding 1Dx DR  performance here my experience with 1Dx is very positive - almost perfect tool for low light sport  and events shooting.
In daylight 1Dx images also look much cleaner and having more 3D look than 1DsM3 and 5DM2 that I used before (just my personal perception)  and allow more image sharpening to be applied safely.
Also seems that 1Dx has a bit weaker anti-aliasing filter  - with extreemly sharp 24-70 2.8L II I could see moire on  some areas of ISO resolution chart  where image elements (projected on sensor)  become comparable in size with pixel size on camera sensor.  I have not observed that with other lenses including very sharp 70-200 2.8L IS II

I still haven't got my hands on one of these so thanks for posting some examples showing where the 1DX's noise limitations are at base ISO.
That's exactly the kind of info I need to verify that my original decision to not buy one (and get 2 D800s instead) was the correct decision for this year.

1Dx is looking like Canon's best performance in a long time as far as FPN, just still not good enough for when I need to really push raw files to extremes.  (which I still find incomprehensible that some people don't understand why this capability is desirable)


@ Mikael Risedal:

There are many of us here on CR who understand and agree with your assertion about the serious difference in sensor performance.  Some of us were even doing the same thing here in the past so don't worry, most CR readers have already been slightly overexposed (couldn't resist the pun) to this information.

However, escalating the strength of your argument will do little to convince anyone.  Human nature is just to push back when someone is challenging them. 
Anyone with an open enough mind will see the data and understand what it means.
Those who don't likely don't care and it's wasted effort trying to convert their way of thinking to yours.  These are likely people who are already fairly satisfied with how the images look direct from their camera and likely don't do a lot of DR compression in post-processing.  That's an understandable choice.

I'm sure you don't always push shadows in your shots either, and when you don't, the FP noise of Canon's sensors doesn't likely have any serious impact on your images. (I'm being generous to Canon here as there have been plenty of shots with my 5D2 where vertical banding artifacts showed up in properly exposed midtones and even in lighter shadows, nearly ruining some shots that any decent camera would not have a problem with)

I still shoot Canon because I like the bodies and lenses and, in many cases, the image quality is perfectly acceptable for whatever purpose I need.
I added Nikon to my collection because I know there are times I will need to push those raw files and so I use the best camera for that job.

At the end of the argument, that is what you would hope to acheive, yes? Convince some Canon users to try SoNikon-Pentax if they've found their Canon camera not quite up to the job.  Some of us now do shoot with these other cameras and some have even completely given up their Canon gear to do that so this battle should really be over.


@ world

Yesterday I was out enjoying a fine autumn night, shooting some dark skylines with my D800 and D5100. I was getting raw files, which I used when I got back home, to create images that I could not, no way in heck, ever make with my Canon cameras.  Seriously, no bluddy way.  I would not even waste my time trying (again) to use a Canon for such shots.  They would not be impossible to do with a Canon camera, just would be far more work compared to a single shot I can take with the super-clean low ISO Nikons.
A Canon-only user would have needed to be content with the limitations of their single shot of such scenes or spend a lot of time bracketing to try capture it and still end up with a lot of compromises.
Feels good to have the right tools available when you need them. :)
Also feels good to have made the choice to get those tools.

Aglet

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2012, 10:13:48 PM »
Ok, Nikon has 2 Stops of DR over Canon. Now go take some real photos Michael.

it's not the DR so much as the FPN
FPN is just ugly

take the old D90 for example
only 1 stop better DR at it's 200 ISO base than a 5D3 but that old D90 has a very random noise characteristic which is much more acceptable than the stripey noise most Canon bodies produce.

When it comes down to the gritty, I think even Mikael Risedal would prefer a camera with one stop less DR if it didn't have FPN to contend with.
I would.

RLPhoto

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2012, 10:39:43 PM »
Ok, Nikon has 2 Stops of DR over Canon. Now go take some real photos Michael.

it's not the DR so much as the FPN
FPN is just ugly

take the old D90 for example
only 1 stop better DR at it's 200 ISO base than a 5D3 but that old D90 has a very random noise characteristic which is much more acceptable than the stripey noise most Canon bodies produce.

When it comes down to the gritty, I think even Mikael Risedal would prefer a camera with one stop less DR if it didn't have FPN to contend with.
I would.

You've seen what I can do with a raw file, I understand Nikon has a better sensor. Big whoop.

I could still get great photos on 35mm film, a d30, MF film, or even a 4x5. Doesn't matter to me, I just prefer how the canon camera gets out of my way.

Nishi Drew

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2012, 01:05:13 AM »
Exactly, photography is about FACTS and NUMBERS
Nothing unmeasurable should be involved here. Emotion? Feeling? Who puts any of that in their pictures??
Emotion is sooo 2004 and Canon should stop with that! Maybe an extra stop of DR would help make everyone's photos stand out and prove so much more to the world, that's right, Canon better work on their sensor tech because all the Nikon boys are stealing the show, Canon users aren't getting any clients!

Alright this is a forum dedicated to the gear, and gear matters, but this thread has gotten funny by complaining about something there's nothing one can do about. Let's all enjoy what's possible

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #27 on: October 20, 2012, 01:05:13 AM »

Aglet

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2012, 01:17:50 AM »
You've seen what I can do with a raw file, I understand Nikon has a better sensor. Big whoop.

I could still get great photos on 35mm film, a d30, MF film, or even a 4x5. Doesn't matter to me, I just prefer how the canon camera gets out of my way.

If you're referring to the sunset you punched up that's a lovely shot.
I'd like to see a full rez crop of it from the most lifted part tho, just to see if you DO have a magically wonderful 7D the rest of us wish we had. ;)

I love everything about my Canon 7d/60d/5d2.. except the noise stripes.

funny how my 40D/450d/400d/350d provided raw files with noticeably less severe FPN issues. Even my 1000D.

Neutral

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2012, 03:29:22 AM »
  It is funny to see how simple "technical" post just showing  some limitations of the hardware was causing so many childish emotions.  This post was for those who are interested to see this kind of information  to be able to use it to do better what they what to do. Not everybody has 1Dx and able to check camera sensor  limitations themselves (they still awaiting on DXO results)  and  some people in process of making decision what they want for their needs.  Glad that at least one person with the mind not blured by emotions (Aglet) found that this is exact information he wanted to know .
  I do not understand why  some are so emotional about just one aspect of harware performance - this hardware is just piece of metal and  silicon  -  nothing emotional inside.
  Also it seems that some people confused between technical aspects and art aspects of using photographic tools.  Some do not see beyond borders of  their own small world - illustrated by arguments like " why on the earth you need to raise shadows  - in my world I do not do that so you MUST NOT do that because I do not do".  But there is not a one small confined world - there are many of them.

  On technical side goal of any development in this area is to make the photographic  tool to approach human eye in it's capabilities to catch the picture.
  Why ?
Extreemly simple answer -  to avoid as much of technical  work (that consume some time)  to bring captured image to what could be seen by human eye - in other words to normalize it as close as possible to humam vision.  I know a lot of people here hate word NORMALIZATION simply because they  do not understand that well (may be because they forgot what they learned in school on math how to compare fractional numbers)))).
  Then from this point (completing technical aspects of normalizing image to human vision)  art work is started - transforming real picture to imagenary vision of the artist.
  On the technical side  we are still far away from the target  and we all wish we could reach it rather earlier than later  to be able to enjoy the fruits of technical progess and use it for art work.

    As far as  1DX concerned  90% of all the tool aspects  (here we are talking about set of features and not only sensor)  is a big leap forward but 10% is something that could be worked further on and not up to the current technology level.
Here is  another example of 1Dx shot in normal daylight conditions using 70-200 2.8L IS USM II.
This  100% crop to get close-up of the subject.   Not too bad I belive for the camera and lens combination)))
« Last Edit: October 20, 2012, 04:32:02 AM by Neutral »

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Re: 1Dx simple DR stress test
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2012, 03:29:22 AM »