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Author Topic: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades  (Read 27895 times)

victorwol

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #90 on: October 24, 2012, 01:27:18 AM »
For those wondering about the Uncompressed HDMI out and why it's important, in the most basic sense, the video files that the 5D creates are compressed .movs with a h264 codec, in a color space of 4:2:0, what this means is that you don't have much latitude to play around with colors or video levels in post (think of it as RAW vs. JPEG) H264's also aren't immediately ready to edit with (of course you can if you want to, but they really should be transcoded to a different codec such as Apple Pro Res before editing)

What the Uncompressed Output with HDMI allows with the aid of an external recorder (such as the Atomos Samurai) is to record in the Apple Pro Res HQ codec (perfect for editing straight away and the same format the $60,0000 Arri Alexa cinema camera records in (what they shoot Mad Men on)) in a color space of 4:2:2, which gives you more latitude to grade (grading is post processing video) with. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense, and makes it a bit clearer that this feature isn't really for the average consumer shooting a bit of video on their HDSLR, it's more for the Pro's / Enthusiasts who are looking for a bit more flexibility and convenience in post production.

It's great to get an HDMI output. But comparing it to an Alexa is going a bit too far... The Alexa can record RAW and 4:4:4 and also output HDSDI 10 bits. Of course you will probably get something beautiful and muuuuch better than today. But for sure wont rival the RED Epic and Alexa... We still have to see the quality of that HDMI output. Noise, etc. I get everyday people coming to our shop with prosumer cameras footage recorded in a Samurai thinking will be as good as a big camera just because is recorded in Prores... Ajjjjj... Grading that crap is so nasty...
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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #90 on: October 24, 2012, 01:27:18 AM »

pwp

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #91 on: October 24, 2012, 01:35:50 AM »
April 2013? You mean April 1st 2013? Because in that case everything is explained  :P

Hah hah! The absence of the red AF points for 5D3 has the definite ring of an April Fools Day joke from Canon. The awkward truth probably is that it's not happening. Very unfortunate for this 5D3 shooter.

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #92 on: October 24, 2012, 01:43:59 AM »
Politics and conspiracy theories aside ...
It is entirely possible the exclusion (at least for now) of the AI-servo AF illumination for 5D3 may be a technical one.

I trust we all understood why AF illumination was avoided in the first place -- interference with the on-board metering system. It was due to popular demand that Canon have since come up with a clever, although quirky, work around with the 1D X. Perhaps it is the lack of an RGB metering system that precluded the same work around from working reliably, if at all, on the 5D3 (and 7D too should they decide to). The red RGB channel could have provided the necessary reference feedback to actively tune out the LED illumination interference through software. This magic trickery may not be feasible with the color-blind 5D3/7D metering sensor.

Frankly I'd comfortably tolerate any slight metering discrepancies in a heartbeat in order to have constantly illuminated red AF points in AI Servo & One Shot. This type of visual information has been industry standard for as long as I can remember and it works well. I'm still mildly astonished that Canon saw fit to switch from neat, functional, visible illuminated red to occasionally visible black.

-PW

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Re: Precedent for f8 AF -- not just for the 1 Series
« Reply #93 on: October 24, 2012, 01:50:45 AM »


So it is not unreasonable to expect a 5D mkIII to af at f8 with the central point (or points).   Not unreasonable to expect that of a 7D mk II either, I say.

I doubt the 7D line will ever see f/8 AF - the precedent to date is only that cameras having Canon's top of the line AF system have had the capability.

From my perspective, I am really glad Canon is adding this for the 5DIII - it certainly shows Canon is giving the 5D line a level of attention that a body below the 1D line has not received since the EOS 3.

I've been considering getting some longer glass, and this news now widens my choices: once our 7D reaches the end of its life, that gives a way of getting the same level of reach on full frame, as I have doubts about buying another crop frame DSLR.

300/f4 IS with 2x TC, or 400/f5.6 with 1.4x TC become viable options now.
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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #94 on: October 24, 2012, 01:51:07 AM »
Canon sure is hit and miss on creating great products that have a good user experience...Someone thought it was cool that we get a "free" update. Is this kind of talk to make us feel better or is Canon starting to plan on rolling out updates at a cost? Look at the 7D, its at the end of its product cycle but they recently added UDMA7 support among other things. It really is BS. Wish there was more competition...
Snd in response to someone who said this isn't a pro camera...tell that to the Canon Rep.
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candyman

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #95 on: October 24, 2012, 02:25:25 AM »
Despite what some people think: in my opinion the Canon 5D MK III with a price of €3000 IS a pro-camera. And, it should be updated with illuminated red AF points in AI Servo. There is still a big difference between the 1D X and 5D MK III where the pro-sports photographer would choose the 1D X instead of 5D MK III. The 5D MK III is not a competitor.
The Canon phrase "free upgrade" makes me wonder of they really think customers would be thankful for that or customers have to worry that this kind of update will not be free in the future. It is possible that they will charge customers in the future since they understand that certain features are important to some customers who are prepared to pay for it. It is another way to milk the cow.
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samueljay

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #96 on: October 24, 2012, 02:33:23 AM »
For those wondering about the Uncompressed HDMI out and why it's important, in the most basic sense, the video files that the 5D creates are compressed .movs with a h264 codec, in a color space of 4:2:0, what this means is that you don't have much latitude to play around with colors or video levels in post (think of it as RAW vs. JPEG) H264's also aren't immediately ready to edit with (of course you can if you want to, but they really should be transcoded to a different codec such as Apple Pro Res before editing)

What the Uncompressed Output with HDMI allows with the aid of an external recorder (such as the Atomos Samurai) is to record in the Apple Pro Res HQ codec (perfect for editing straight away and the same format the $60,0000 Arri Alexa cinema camera records in (what they shoot Mad Men on)) in a color space of 4:2:2, which gives you more latitude to grade (grading is post processing video) with. Hopefully that makes a bit of sense, and makes it a bit clearer that this feature isn't really for the average consumer shooting a bit of video on their HDSLR, it's more for the Pro's / Enthusiasts who are looking for a bit more flexibility and convenience in post production.

It's great to get an HDMI output. But comparing it to an Alexa is going a bit too far... The Alexa can record RAW and 4:4:4 and also output HDSDI 10 bits. Of course you will probably get something beautiful and muuuuch better than today. But for sure wont rival the RED Epic and Alexa... We still have to see the quality of that HDMI output. Noise, etc. I get everyday people coming to our shop with prosumer cameras footage recorded in a Samurai thinking will be as good as a big camera just because is recorded in Prores... Ajjjjj... Grading that crap is so nasty...
Ah of course not, the Alexa is an amazing camera, I was just trying to put it in layman terms so to speak, that by using an external recorder you can record into an edit ready format that even some of the best cameras use. It by no means was meant to imply that you're going to get similar results to a $60k cine camera. Sorry for the confusion. Of course, DSLR footage is still just that, and can't come close to anything from the Red or Alexa.
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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #96 on: October 24, 2012, 02:33:23 AM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #97 on: October 24, 2012, 04:31:53 AM »
It is entirely possible the exclusion (at least for now) of the AI-servo AF illumination for 5D3 may be a technical one.

Maybe apart from the metering the solution they did on the 1dx requires too much processing power and the dual digic5 (af tracking AND eventually re-calculating exposure all the time because obviously the af point illumination screws it up)? If so, Canon should at least inofficially say so to stop users hoping for it!

And they should tell us why it takes so long for the next firmware, just "April 2013" is really a joke (knowing Canon, that'll be not before April 30 23:59). If the sole reason is to protect the 1dx and give it a headstart that'd be typical Canon. Maybe someone with Canon contacts can check for us.

eason_c

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #98 on: October 24, 2012, 04:55:11 AM »
People always want more. The August 2013 update might give 5D3 12FPS.  :P

Quackator

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #99 on: October 24, 2012, 05:01:43 AM »
It's great to get an HDMI output. But comparing it to an Alexa is going a bit too far...


Is it? 
Revenge of the Great Camera Shootout 2012 - Part One: Starting With Darkness on Vimeo Small | Large


I agree with you on the grading part, and definitely an iphone 4s requires much more effort
to deliver anything usable. But "revenge of the great Zacuto shootout" shows very well that
the camera is nothing without the talent driving it.

Marsu42

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #100 on: October 24, 2012, 06:25:51 AM »
People always want more. The August 2013 update might give 5D3 12FPS.  :P

I'm sure Canon will release the occasional feature update, competing with Nikon they seem to have made good experiences with the 5d2 & 7d upgrades and it's the alternative to releasing a new model every year like with the Rebels.

But the missing af indicators are really unfortunate, it doesn't matter at all on 60d/5d2/... that don't do good tracking anyway, but for a camera with the 1dx af system this indeed seems to be a drawback for many. So they have to go for the 1dx. Canon wouldn't mind :-p

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #101 on: October 24, 2012, 07:05:00 AM »
Looks like there will be no AF-point illumination for the 5DIII. If that was going to,happen, then it would have been announced. The lack of the illuminating pts is one thing I really find lacking on my $3500 camera body. Canon?
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expatinasia

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2012, 08:16:12 AM »
And in response to someone who said this isn't a pro camera...tell that to the Canon Rep.

That would be me. A Canon rep? Someone who is trying to sell you the camera? Why not get something in writing from Canon themselves. Their own website states: "The new semi-professional EOS 5D Mark III Full Frame Digital SLR camera". No room for misunderstanding there.

Please do not misunderstand me. The Canon 5D Mark III is an amazing camera and can be used by pros in many situations. It is however quite different from the 1DX.

Wish there was more competition...

I agree fully. I find it very poor of Canon to release a pro US$ 6,XXX camera and not have an AF system which is suitable for low light, no USB 3.0, no headphone jack, in-built GPS and the list goes on. The flagship should be just that, a flasghip, which has all the bells and whistles.

It is good to see Sony getting more creative and I have to say Nikon are playing ball with their new D600 which seems to have impressive specs.

Competition is good.

But, getting back to the firmware upgrade. I still think it is ridiculous that they have released a statement about a firmware update 6 months in advance. Someone at Canon needs a kick up the ***, because more and more people are beginning to ask why Canon locks in so many features. They aren't idiots, they (we) know why, and as the competition increases, and brands such as Sony come out with new models that can do A, B, C and D, with free apps that do E, F and G, more and more people will begin to think whether they should switch.

Canon knows it has a problem. You have people with massive glass that can't even get firmware updates without sending them in. Only now, are they able to do that through the camera with the very latest FW updates. I can only wonder how long it will be before they launch a new camera that will require an entirely new L ii lens structure for the best results.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 08:17:58 AM by expatinasia »
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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #102 on: October 24, 2012, 08:16:12 AM »

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Re: Canon EOS 5D Mark III Firmware adds HDMI & AF Upgrades
« Reply #103 on: October 24, 2012, 08:24:08 AM »
I'm still baffled as to why there is such a long lead time for this firmware....it's available for the 1D-X already and it's the same AF array. April??? Come on....

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Re: Precedent for f8 AF -- not just for the 1 Series
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2012, 08:25:44 AM »
So it is not unreasonable to expect a 5D mkIII to af at f8 with the central point (or points).   Not unreasonable to expect that of a 7D mk II either, I say.

I doubt the 7D line will ever see f/8 AF - the precedent to date is only that cameras having Canon's top of the line AF system have had the capability.

The precedent for digital was only the 1-series gets the top AF system, and the 5DIII broke that precedent.  So why not f/8 AF in a 7DII?

once our 7D reaches the end of its life, that gives a way of getting the same level of reach on full frame, as I have doubts about buying another crop frame DSLR

...and that's why!  The ability to add a 1.4x TC to an f/5.6 lens and retain AF goes a long way to mitigating the 'reach benefit' of APS-C, and that combined with the 6 fps and excellent AF of the 5DIII makes that an easier up-sell from the 7D line. 

Could Canon be hurting supertele sales by allowing people with a non 1-series body to get AF at 600mm (300/4 + 2x)?  Probably not much...the IQ of a 600mm lens substantially better the 300/4 + 2x combo (or the 400/5.6 + 1.4x combo), and only businesses and a limited subset of individuals can afford a supertele anyway.  In fact, it may benefit supertele sales, as people start shooting at 560/600mm with a TC and aren't as pleased with the optical results as they hoped, and consider a supertele more seriously.
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Re: Precedent for f8 AF -- not just for the 1 Series
« Reply #104 on: October 24, 2012, 08:25:44 AM »