October 01, 2014, 03:29:06 PM

Author Topic: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore  (Read 24576 times)

Simba

  • Power Shot G16
  • **
  • Posts: 28
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2012, 05:10:48 PM »
I think this year's tsunami crisis in Japan and the fact it heavily impacted r&d and production might have helped with these companies' losses...

You realize the tsunami (earthwuake + nuclear disaster) was well over a year ago right? It did do harm but when so much is made in China/Taiwan no real hits were taken.


Nikon's loss was due to Thailand floods.
http://www.engadget.com/2012/02/03/nikon-posts-q3-2011-earnings-sees-extraordinary-losses-due-to/
« Last Edit: October 28, 2012, 05:34:48 PM by Simba »

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #90 on: October 28, 2012, 05:10:48 PM »

verysimplejason

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1352
    • View Profile
    • My Flickr Account
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #91 on: October 29, 2012, 02:12:56 AM »
Some of Canon's problem is the world economy...but much of it has to do with the RIDICULOUS prices that Canon is attaching to MANY of their products. WAY out of line with their competitors.  I feel some massive rebates coming on sometime soon...I for one am buying NOTHING Canon until the company gets real...I bought a 5DIii 4 months ago...and now see it online for $700 less than I paid for it? Canon....that is insulting to your customers. I expect the price to drop...but nothing like this. Also delivering products that are far below their hardware capabilities and having hackers embarrassingly shoewng your own firmware ????
Everyone...let's do a Canon boycott for 6 months...right thru the holidays and bring this arrogant behaving company to its knees!

These price drops may not be good for early adopters.  That's why patience is always a virtue.  But you had enjoyed your camera 4 months earlier than the rest of us.  Right? :)

To me...it should be 1st come 1st serve, regardless when you placed your order.

But that's not how the law of supply and demand works.  During introduction, there will be a lot more buyers so demand will be high and supply will be low.  After initial spike in sales, it will go down and the manufacturing speed (supply) will be able to recover.  I think this is very normal even for non-photography market sales.

dave

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 128
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #92 on: October 29, 2012, 05:16:57 AM »
Some of Canon's problem is the world economy...but much of it has to do with the RIDICULOUS prices that Canon is attaching to MANY of their products. WAY out of line with their competitors.  I feel some massive rebates coming on sometime soon...I for one am buying NOTHING Canon until the company gets real...I bought a 5DIii 4 months ago...and now see it online for $700 less than I paid for it? Canon....that is insulting to your customers. I expect the price to drop...but nothing like this. Also delivering products that are far below their hardware capabilities and having hackers embarrassingly shoewng your own firmware ????
Everyone...let's do a Canon boycott for 6 months...right thru the holidays and bring this arrogant behaving company to its knees!

These price drops may not be good for early adopters.  That's why patience is always a virtue.  But you had enjoyed your camera 4 months earlier than the rest of us.  Right? :)

To me...it should be 1st come 1st serve, regardless when you placed your order.

But that's not how the law of supply and demand works.  During introduction, there will be a lot more buyers so demand will be high and supply will be low.  After initial spike in sales, it will go down and the manufacturing speed (supply) will be able to recover.  I think this is very normal even for non-photography market sales.

+1

Ummm. Computers, Televisions and most electronics are similar - prices drop. Clothes go on sale all the time - even from high status brands.Nobody actually forced you to pay the asking price. I shelled out $2300 for the supposedly ridiculous 24-70 ii and love it and if other people are able to get one for $1500 in a couple of months I'd be happy for them. Canon are a business and will behave in a way that suits them. You need to make your purchase decisions based on your own evaluation of your needs/wants. Once you purchase and choose not to return it after testing you've made the decision. Presumably you aren't buying a body as a capital producing investment so you may as well be happy.

RuneL

  • EOS M2
  • ****
  • Posts: 201
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #93 on: October 29, 2012, 07:13:20 AM »
The cause? A series Underwhelming products, Inflated Pricing, And a series of restrictions based on profit rather than R&D. IE: 1Dx F/8 focusing.
I doubt the 1D sales have ever had a large impact on canons revenue. They are like halo products.

RLPhoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3466
  • Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #94 on: October 29, 2012, 08:42:54 AM »
The cause? A series Underwhelming products, Inflated Pricing, And a series of restrictions based on profit rather than R&D. IE: 1Dx F/8 focusing.
I doubt the 1D sales have ever had a large impact on canons revenue. They are like halo products.

In example or IE. The hardware of the 61-pt system is capable of f/8 focusing. The 1Dx and 5D3 were restricted in an attempt to force users into larger more expensive glass.

The 6D's attempt to stretch the 5D's AF system to another generation is a pure profit based venture instead of R&D.

The EOS M with the recycled 4 year old sensor being priced at 599$ body only is another example.

There are many more, but I'll let you fill those in.

PackLight

  • Guest
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #95 on: October 29, 2012, 09:41:35 AM »
A quote from Canon's press release;

"Demand for interchangeable-lens digital cameras continued to realize
robust growth in all regions while the market for compact digital cameras shrunk due to the stagnation of the global economy."

It is obvious that Canon realizes that the 6D release, the 5D III pricing and other DSLR issues are the primary cause for this quarters downturn. Obviously "Robust Growth" has a meaning I am not familure with.

http://www.canon.com/ir/results/2012/rslt2012q3e.pdf

wwnwong4829

  • SX50 HS
  • **
  • Posts: 3
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2012, 09:53:14 AM »
I am living in Hong Kong. The 1Dx shows up in a lot of the camera shops now, like other luxurious items - watches, jewelry, French and Italian handbags, Apple items, expensive camera gear, ... etc, waiting for the rich Chinese to buy.  8)
In the past few years, this drive of luxurious items have pushed the local shop rent and residence prices sky high.
This might sound exaggerated, but cinema closed down to become Luxury Item Shop(s?), a section of the most popular shopping area is now filled with expensive watch shops, and can you image a whole street of camera store chains - you can spot 3 stores from the same chain within 100 meters and they are not small!
As the economic growth in China slows down, this bubble will burst soon. >:(
Canon's marketing dept will have a hard time forecasting the demand and pricing their products.  :D


canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #96 on: October 29, 2012, 09:53:14 AM »

marekjoz

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 945
    • View Profile
    • marekjoz @flickr
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #97 on: October 29, 2012, 10:17:14 AM »
I am living in Hong Kong. The 1Dx shows up in a lot of the camera shops now, like other luxurious items - watches, jewelry, French and Italian handbags, Apple items, expensive camera gear, ... etc, waiting for the rich Chinese to buy.  8)
In the past few years, this drive of luxurious items have pushed the local shop rent and residence prices sky high.
This might sound exaggerated, but cinema closed down to become Luxury Item Shop(s?), a section of the most popular shopping area is now filled with expensive watch shops, and can you image a whole street of camera store chains - you can spot 3 stores from the same chain within 100 meters and they are not small!
As the economic growth in China slows down, this bubble will burst soon. >:(
Canon's marketing dept will have a hard time forecasting the demand and pricing their products.  :D

They can always make a Lunar version of 1dx
flickr | youtube | 5D2, 50 F/1.4, 24-105 F/4 L IS, 300 F/4 L IS, x1.4 II

caruser

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 126
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #98 on: October 29, 2012, 11:11:08 AM »
A quote from Canon's press release;

"Demand for interchangeable-lens digital cameras continued to realize
robust growth in all regions while the market for compact digital cameras shrunk due to the stagnation of the global economy."

http://www.canon.com/ir/results/2012/rslt2012q3e.pdf

Aren't compacts going away because phones are now good enough to replace a compact for most people?

AmbientLight

  • 6D
  • *****
  • Posts: 492
    • View Profile
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #99 on: October 29, 2012, 11:17:36 AM »
I believe you are quite correct, but in a press statement we are not likely to find this.

If Canon would indeed state something like that, it would sound as if they admit an error of judgement regarding the compact camera sector, where, if I am not mistaken, Canon was and still is the market leader.

It appears to me that Canon tried and still tries to reap profits from that market, but realizes that it will dwindle away. Stating the stagnating global economy as a source for that downturn in income points to a cause Canon is unable to effect, so the company doesn't blame itself for what is happening, which I reckon is the exact reason they phrased it like this.

unfocused

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 2117
    • View Profile
    • Unfocused: A photo website
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #100 on: October 29, 2012, 01:05:18 PM »
Read a little further: "As for compact digital cameras, while highly functional PowerShot-series models contributed to healthy sales, unit sales for the third quarter declined from the corresponding period of the previous year due to sluggish market demand."

Also: "Demand for compact digital cameras is anticipated to increase for models offering high functionality and high added value."

Canon is acknowledging sluggish demand for compact digital cameras and targeting higher end models (In particular the G1X and EOS-M). So, yes, they recognize that the traditional low-price consumer PowerShot models are not doing well and they are targeting the higher end.

This is a problem for all camera manufacturers, not just Canon. For years, profits from low-end consumer models have provided a foundation for manufacturers to build off of. DSLR sales remain strong and profitable, but will there ever be sufficient demand to replace the revenues lost from compact digital sales? I doubt it. It would not surprise me to see Canon's imaging business unit (cameras) and similar units within Nikon, Sony, Fuji and others all shrink considerably in the coming years. Bad news for employees who work on the production lines for compact digital cameras. But, since the ultimate success of a company is based more on return on investment rather than gross sales, a smaller, leaner imaging business unit doesn't necessarily spell doom.

Companies get in trouble when they fail to adapt to changing market conditions (Kodak). Those that anticipate and adjust succeed (Fuji).

Part of Canon's (and Nikon's) strategy seems to be to diversify the DSLR product line: maintaining a full range of APS-C models while expanding their Full Frame offerings. But, the DSLR market is fairly mature, so they also need to capture new customers with the high-end compacts. Manufacturers must navigate generational and cultural differences and the high-end compact offerings are part of that strategy.

There is absolutely NOTHING in the report that supports many of the posts on this thread. It might be fun and personally satisfying to misread this report to confirm pre-conceived ideas of what Canon's pricing strategy should be for a product that a forum participant happens to think costs too much, but the financials simply don't support any of that wishful thinking.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 03:08:04 PM by unfocused »
pictures sharp. life not so much. www.unfocusedmg.com

PackLight

  • Guest
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #101 on: October 29, 2012, 03:42:08 PM »
Companies get in trouble when they fail to adapt to changing market conditions (Kodak). Those that anticipate and adjust succeed (Fuji).

Seriously, Canon is a cash flush company that just made a bit short of Billion dollars in one quarter. Now they are in trouble?

jrista

  • Canon EF 400mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 4731
  • POTATO
    • View Profile
    • Nature Photography
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2012, 02:17:00 PM »
Companies get in trouble when they fail to adapt to changing market conditions (Kodak). Those that anticipate and adjust succeed (Fuji).

Seriously, Canon is a cash flush company that just made a bit short of Billion dollars in one quarter. Now they are in trouble?

That's my question. It seems Canon is doing remarkably well considering the world economic situation and some extremely intense competition.
My Photography
Current Gear: Canon 5D III | Canon 7D | Canon EF 600mm f/4 L IS II | EF 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6 L IS | EF 16-35mm f/2.8 L | EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro | 50mm f/1.4
New Gear List: SBIG STT-8300M | Canon EF 300mm f/2.8 L II

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #102 on: October 30, 2012, 02:17:00 PM »

PackLight

  • Guest
Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #103 on: October 30, 2012, 04:08:13 PM »
Companies get in trouble when they fail to adapt to changing market conditions (Kodak). Those that anticipate and adjust succeed (Fuji).

Seriously, Canon is a cash flush company that just made a bit short of Billion dollars in one quarter. Now they are in trouble?

That's my question. It seems Canon is doing remarkably well considering the world economic situation and some extremely intense competition.

They must be close to bankruptcy if they are only making 3 billion plus a year.

Here is the reality;
Canon is listed as paying out 63% of their profits in dividends. The company "Canon" doesn't suffer at all in this down turn. The dividends just get smaller. The majority of the money everyone is discussing is money that doesn't go to R&D or anything else, it goes to the shareholders.

well_dunno

  • 7D
  • *****
  • Posts: 356
    • View Profile

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #104 on: October 31, 2012, 09:11:03 AM »