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Author Topic: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore  (Read 24594 times)

DB

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2012, 01:05:47 PM »
...maybe they will start refreshing the entire product line just about soon, like next January?

In general, reduced revenue means cuts...and often, R&D is one of the first cuts to be made.  Sad, but true.

+1 Canon set their R&D budget 'top-down' (as a % of net sales) and not 'bottom-up' (what they need to spend for new products), so expect to see some possible trimming of the R&D allocation

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #30 on: October 26, 2012, 01:05:47 PM »

marekjoz

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #31 on: October 26, 2012, 01:07:50 PM »
...maybe they will start refreshing the entire product line just about soon, like next January?

In general, reduced revenue means cuts...and often, R&D is one of the first cuts to be made.  Sad, but true.

+1 Canon set their R&D budget 'top-down' (as a % of net sales) and not 'bottom-up' (what they need to spend for new products), so expect to see some possible trimming of the R&D allocation

Hopefully it could push them to send to market stuff they have ready on their shelves in R&D department.
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cbphoto

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #32 on: October 26, 2012, 01:11:07 PM »
Quote
"Demand for interchangeable-lens digital cameras continued to realize robust growth in all regions while the market for compact digital cameras shrunk due to the stagnation of the global economy."

Sales of compact digital cameras will continue to shrink because of cell phone cameras & apps.

I've owned three Canon point & shoot cameras, but will probably never buy another one. For fun & easy, I use my cell phone and a couple apps to shoot, enhance and upload for family & friends to see. The last thing I want to do on vacation is saddle myself to a computer for post production on point & shoot images. To me, it's a no-brainer.

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atompate

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #33 on: October 26, 2012, 01:11:38 PM »
Sure the high end products price point has been raised and people are pissed but I think its more then that. I see a huge problem for canon nikon etc.. is loosing the point and shoot market. Average Joe's are slowly using their smartphones now and dont even buy film or P&S anymore. The company's are probably trying to make revenue like years in the past so they raise DSLR and high end products prices.


DB

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #34 on: October 26, 2012, 01:12:52 PM »
Canon do not tell us how they allocate the R&D budget, but what we do know is that it has fallen as % of net sales from 11.5% to 8.5% over the last 3-4 years, but whether or not Consumer Division saw bigger cuts, whilst Industrial Division experienced rises in R&D spend, we do not know.

Canon still outspends Nikon - in % terms (again we do not know if this is also true on DSLR's , just as a company)

jrista

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #35 on: October 26, 2012, 01:14:19 PM »
  I rather think the situation is slightly more complex...
I never said that pricing of 5DMKIII was the only contributing factor. This is simply one of the most obvious ones in terms of dslr market.

You do realize that the sales of the 5D III have been stellar DESPITE the price, right? That seems to indicate to me that the market can certainly bear the $3500 price tag, and that people are eager to buy that particular camera.
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DB

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2012, 01:16:59 PM »
...maybe they will start refreshing the entire product line just about soon, like next January?

In general, reduced revenue means cuts...and often, R&D is one of the first cuts to be made.  Sad, but true.

+1 Canon set their R&D budget 'top-down' (as a % of net sales) and not 'bottom-up' (what they need to spend for new products), so expect to see some possible trimming of the R&D allocation

Hopefully it could push them to send to market stuff they have ready on their shelves in R&D department.

Excellent point. They don't call Consumer Electronics the 'FMCG Sector' (fast moving consumer goods) for nothing -> get new products out the door quicker, then the faster they sell...the more revenue that allows for more R&D spend on new improved products and so on.  I guess this is why Apple Inc. constantly update their product lines e.g. iPad4 announced just months after iPad3

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #36 on: October 26, 2012, 01:16:59 PM »

mws

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #37 on: October 26, 2012, 01:17:06 PM »
I should have bought that calculator mouse!

Darkmatter

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #38 on: October 26, 2012, 01:20:00 PM »
Won't printer sales continue to drop until it's at the point where most sales will just be to other companies? I don't have a really up to date printer because I hardly ever use it but hasn't the tech already gotten to the point almost where most consumer printers can do most everything a regular person will want of it? There doesn't seem to have been any real major jump in printer tech in quite a long time already. I can't see that problem getting any better as time goes on.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #39 on: October 26, 2012, 01:20:46 PM »
Any idea why there are no similar price drops on D800?

So $3800 Canadian or even $3500 US pricing was reasonable in your opinion?

Neuro, I respect your posts on this forum and your knowledge, but I struggle to understand you on this one.

Probably because no one had the D800 in stock, and low supply means high demand which means no market drive for a lower price.

I thought $3500 was not unreasonable.  The IQ of a 5DII (already excellent) coupled with the AF system of a camera costing >$3K more, plus 6 fps shooting speed?  That's a powerful combination.  If I had any interest in purchasing a 5DIII, would I want it to be cheaper?  Of course.  But if I had been interested in purchasing a 5DIII, the $3500 price would not have affected my decision.  Amortized over a 3 year life of the camera, $500 becomes something like 46ยข per day.  My morning coffee cost 10 times that.  Just sayin'.

In general, reduced revenue means cuts...and often, R&D is one of the first cuts to be made.  Sad, but true.
well a malicious guy could say:  i have not seen much sensor development in the past 4 years.... so what?

Are you that guy?  Wasting no time in slipping back to old ways, it seems...  Please do try to properly attribute your quotes, though.  FWIW, I am not referring specifically to Canon or the dSLR industry here, but more generally to companies with R&D spending across the board. 
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PackLight

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #40 on: October 26, 2012, 01:22:48 PM »
Some of those posting on this thread are very good photographers.
As financial analyst they leave much to be desired.

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2012, 01:28:12 PM »
i bought a new sony TV this year and new pioneer audio gear.

i wonder why i did not notice the strong YEN on these buys....
Have you checked Sony's financial report?  It might give you a hint.  They are losing money hand over fist due to lowering prices to compete with South Korea.  You got your TV below cost.  Hopefully, Sony will still be in business if it needs repair.  The first thing Sony has dropped when times were tough was customer service, and for them, times are very tough.

daniel_charms

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2012, 01:30:48 PM »

In general, reduced revenue means cuts...and often, R&D is one of the first cuts to be made.  Sad, but true.

well a malicious guy could say:  i have not seen much sensor development in the past 4 years.... so what?

On the subject of R&D, check out the Chipworks report on full-frame DSLR camera sensors from a few days ago. Canon is basically still using the same fabrication technology for their sensors that they used in the 5DC, while their competitors have long moved on, so you could say that there hasn't been much sensor development in the past 7 years. They do have newer technology in store, comparable to what Sony and Nikon are using, but they've still yet to make the move. What this means in this context is that if Canon does cut R&D costs for sensors as a result of reduced profits, it might not be until another four to five years before they start to see any major negative effects.

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2012, 01:30:48 PM »

Darkmatter

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2012, 01:31:35 PM »
Dropping CS is always the easiest way to go since your costumers can't bitch at you if they can't get ahold of you...

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2012, 01:39:45 PM »
It's probably a tangent to this thread, but a friend with deep roots in Japan explained to me the powers behind companies like Canon and Nikon. In Japan, they have zaibatsu which roughly translates to conglomerates and Nikon is backed up by a giant, Mitsubishi. They started several hundred years ago as trading companies and provided finance for big manufacturing companies later. They are the equivalent of the Rockfellers and JP Morgans.  There are four or five large ones, despite attempts to disassemble them after the second world war. The largest being Mitsubishi, Mitsui, Sumitomo and others.

Nikon belongs to the Mitsubishi group. But, surprisingly, both Sony and Canon belongs to the Mitsui group...which would have made the tie up between Sony and Canon more natural than the current Nikon/Sony arrangement.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2012, 01:41:58 PM by LSV »

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Re: Canon Can't Even Make a Billion Dollars Anymore
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2012, 01:39:45 PM »