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Author Topic: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today  (Read 42695 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2012, 02:07:30 PM »
B&H are already offering a $200 "instant discount" on the MAP prices. Crisis averted. Well, almost.

????? The list price on an mk3 was $3199 with an extra $200 off in rebates...so the $200 rebate is the same as it was before
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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #60 on: November 01, 2012, 02:07:30 PM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #61 on: November 01, 2012, 02:10:08 PM »
Glad I grabbed a 135 f/2 a couple of days ago for $879.  It's $989 now.

Dang, I was hoping that would be my next lens, too. Looks like I have a little more saving to do.


I am seriously kicking myself --- a 135L popped on the used page at b&h yesterday for like $770.  I passed on it because, well, if i can get the new one for only a hundred more why not just wait.  Bad move I guess - cause now its $990 with a $100 off in rebate...
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joemod

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #62 on: November 01, 2012, 03:37:11 PM »
People are mixing apples and oranges here.

Apples: Canon's retail prices.

Oranges: Canon's minimum advertised price policies.

On the "apples" side: legitimate questions can be made and debated about whether or not Canon is charging too much for some products in relation to either market demand or perceived value. That's a constant subject of debate on this forum with opinions ranging from the delusional and paranoid to those who have no financial constraints and would buy anything with a Canon brand on it. Regardless of what you think the "proper" price should be, that really has no relevance to MAP pricing policies.

On the "oranges" side: Canon is moving to enforce its Minimum Advertised Price policies, which exist to bring price uniformity to its dealer network. On a related thread, another individual posted a link to a Wikipedia article that explains the legal history of MAP pretty well. No point in repeating that. They are legal and they are used by many manufacturers. The simplest summary might be to say that manufacturers cannot tell a retailer what price to actually charge for a product – which is a private transaction between the buyer and seller. But, they can say what price the retailer can advertise the product for sale at.

MAP, as others have pointed out, has absolutely no bearing on Canon's own profit margin. The price that Canon charges its resellers is not being increased.

Why have MAP? To level the playing field between retailers. It is not in the best interests of either the manufacturer or the consumer to allow a single large retailer to undercut all other sellers to the point that they drive the other sellers out of business and create a monopolistic situation where the manufacturer and customer are both totally depending on the whims of one retailer.

Using the 5DIII as an example, we can all see how the lax enforcement of MAP has impacted pricing and the market over the past several months. Canon's MSRP has never changed, but the "street price" has fluctuated wildly. Great news for individual buyers, but a real problem for the network because retailers have no assurance that when they play by the rules they won't be undercut by someone who is gaming the system.

Canon has a dilemma here. If they turn a blind eye to the violators, they risk alienating their dealer network and undercutting their own ability to compete in the marketplace. So, they have moved to enforce what they view as the "real" and "correct" prices for their products.

Which brings us all back to the "apples." The recent "bargain" pricing of the 5DIII seems to show that the "correct" price may be out of line with the marketplace. If that is the case, it will correct itself over time and there is little that either Canon or its dealer network can do to stop that.

Let the marketplace sort it out. If Canon's prices are too high, demand will drop. Canon will be forced to adjust the price and retailers will find new ways around MAP.
Thanks very much for this great explanation. You made it all clear.

joshmurrah

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #63 on: November 01, 2012, 04:54:37 PM »
Amazon is now complying with the price set by Canon, the 5D3 body is up to 3299 (after 200 rebate)

I was hoping they'd do the "add to cart to see price", but appearantly Canon will match Nikon's draconian policy regarding pricing.
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stewy

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #64 on: November 01, 2012, 05:16:05 PM »
I think that this is a sign. At one point I was thinking about waiting until the 5D4 is released or some other great camera. However, the lower price tags was starting to tempt me. I'm already spent enough money on other things for this Christmas, but I was looking forward to picking one up around Feb. next year. Now that the price has gone back up, I'm just going to sit this one out and keep using my 40D. Or maybe I can get a used 5DII.

cthetoy

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #65 on: November 01, 2012, 05:28:37 PM »
Amazon is now complying with the price set by Canon, the 5D3 body is up to 3299 (after 200 rebate)

I was hoping they'd do the "add to cart to see price", but appearantly Canon will match Nikon's draconian policy regarding pricing.

Luckily I saw the price on Amazon for $2994 still earlier this morning. Went to Best Buy and they matched it as it showed $2994.00. Bought it from Best Buy because of the zero interest for 18 months. Amazon is now $3299.00 :(

DB

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2012, 05:36:33 PM »
+1 with Canon on this subject.

Alot of people said:
1.  " early adopters always pay for premium price tag"
2. " You get to play wiith camera before us"
3. " Demand and supply law"

I say if you think $3500 is too much for 5D III then switch to Nikon. or get the mrk II. 

Allowed 20%ish price drop on new & hot body is unacceptable. Canon needs to keep their reputation as leader in this market.

Have to agree wholeheartedly with Dylan777 on this, just read a review of 4 HD digital cameras in the December issue of HD Video Pro (the Arri Alexa vs RED Epic vs Canon EOS 5D Mark III vs Sony F65) and the reviewers conclude that the 5D3 @ $3500 is an ABSOLUTE STEAL given the improved S/N ratio, clean footage up to 12,800 ISO, lack of line skipping, reduced moire and aliasing over its predecessor the 5D2 and so on.

I know that many photographer's out there would like to buy this DSLR for about a grand, but you know what you cannot get a Porsche Turbo for twenty grand. Lot of tech = higher price. And there are enough people out there who will pay full retail for this Canon product w/out complaining.

Canon have to control the prices of their products (to a degree), not just to create a level-playing field amongst retailers, but to preserve residual values....otherwise they will have zero incentive to spend R&D on new tech. If all dslr prices were to continuously fall, then Canon could not charge full retail price on new products => lower sales => lower R&D spend (as R&D is a fixed set % of net sales). If you want $99 digital 12MP cam, buy P&S.

Price-fixing is illegal, so is operating a price cartel, but these MAP are neither, as Canon has not changed the cost of these products to the wholesaler/retailer, instead just ensuring that they (Canon Inc.) dictate selling prices and not allow a French discount electronics hypermarket like Boulanger (for instance) to set Canon's prices for them (as has happened recently e.g.  €2,700 for a 5D3 or 800 euros less than elsewhere in Europe). Boulanger did not spend a dime developing the new 22.3MP sensor in the 5D3, so why should they dictate price for the market, just because they can buy in bulk and are willing to 'box-shift' product as a 'loss-leader' then hoping to make profits on lens + accessories?

I believe in cause and effect. Do you not think that recent price discounting like the aforementioned on both sides of the Atlantic has had anything to do with Canon's new MAP? (clue: no such thing as a double-coincidence in life or nature).

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #66 on: November 01, 2012, 05:36:33 PM »

GMCPhotographics

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #67 on: November 01, 2012, 05:45:29 PM »
Well, in the UK it's still called price fixing and it's illegal.

DB

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #68 on: November 01, 2012, 06:14:09 PM »
Well, in the UK it's still called price fixing and it's illegal.

No it is not. There is NO COLLUSION to artificially keep prices higher than they would be otherwise. It is a direct policy to STOP discount retailers from using a product as a 'loss leader' that will directly harm the sales of smaller competitors as well as the original equipment manufacturer.

Do you think the British government would tolerate Tesco, Asda or Sainsbury selling Cans of Heineken for 1 pence? Extreme example, but it 100% proves my point. Answer: no they would not and Heineken - the Dutch brewing company would make sure that any supermarket that did that would find the next delivery quantity = 0 (forever). And do you know what, Heineken would be absolutely right and why should a retailer cheapen their premium brand.

zim

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #69 on: November 01, 2012, 06:17:53 PM »
If you’re a pro and it fits your business plan ignore this, everyone else…….. my god people the solution is simple, as stewy said don’t buy the bloody thing!

DB

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #70 on: November 01, 2012, 06:24:34 PM »
If you’re a pro and it fits your business plan ignore this, everyone else…….. my god people the solution is simple, as stewy said don’t buy the bloody thing!
+1

Problem is though...people on CR want to buy the bloody thing, but do not wish to pay full price (dilemma :-[)

ndkohlman

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #71 on: November 01, 2012, 06:40:10 PM »
I think Canon's gear is already over priced and while I have a 10D as well as a 5D mkII since Oct 2011 as well as 3 pieces of Canon glass I am in no way going to do any upgrading now, I was hoping the prices were going to come down. I wanted to pick up a couple extra speedlights but there is no way I am spending what Canon wants for a new 600ex flash(I have resorted to purchasing second hand equipment, which is starting to creep up as well) I wanted to purchase a wide angle zoom, either the 16-35, 17-40 or possible the new 24-70 but that is going to wait now as well.

All purchases and upgrades are on hold.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2012, 06:42:25 PM »
Problem is though...people on CR want to buy the bloody thing, but do not wish to pay full price (dilemma :-[)

Yes, people on CR want to buy the every bloody thing, but do not wish to pay full price

What else is news?  Why are we even discussing this?  Anyone who jumped on the lower price should be happy they had a bit of notice - it's like planning to sell a stock, and being told today that the share price will drop tomorrow.  Anyone who sat on the fence and must now pay more, it's unfortunate, but that's life.
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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #72 on: November 01, 2012, 06:42:25 PM »

DB

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #73 on: November 01, 2012, 06:48:11 PM »
I think Canon's gear is already over priced and while I have a 10D as well as a 5D mkII since Oct 2011 as well as 3 pieces of Canon glass I am in no way going to do any upgrading now, I was hoping the prices were going to come down. I wanted to pick up a couple extra speedlights but there is no way I am spending what Canon wants for a new 600ex flash(I have resorted to purchasing second hand equipment, which is starting to creep up as well) I wanted to purchase a wide angle zoom, either the 16-35, 17-40 or possible the new 24-70 but that is going to wait now as well.

All purchases and upgrades are on hold.

Good for you! Keep buying 'used' and support residual values...meanwhile Canon will do their bit to preserve residual values too :P

robbymack

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2012, 06:51:30 PM »
Goodness some of you need to calm down. The world has not ended. Canon has just decided to enforce their policy which simply means authorized retailers cannot advertise (in print, online, etc) a price below their msrp. That just means the price you see in the official canon online store will be the same across the internet.  If they do advertise it lower then they risk losing canon as a supplier. Secondly those of you who think canon makes any more or less money off the msrp are dillusional. They sell it to a retailer who in turns sells it to you for msrp or whatever you agree upon.  That transaction is between you and the retailer not you and canon. If you don't like it please feel free to check out Sony and Nikon who do the exact same thing just have actually been enforcing their policies unlike canon. Sony is notorious for their map pricing requirements across the entire gambit if their electronics empire. this doesn't mean the end of all "deals". The unauthorized sellers don't care about map pricing, and if you don't care about warrantee issues or have done business with that shop (or better its your local camera store) and know they will honor any issue then you are golden. In the end this is much ado about nothing.

Lastly, I know this will drive some of you bonkers, the big stores (BH, adorama, best buy, ET al) love this. It means no one can undercut them on an advertised price if they are an authorized seller.  It means your local shops who doesnt have the buying power to get better deals out of the supplier are squeezed even further likely requiring them to either drop authorized status or raise their in store price which in turn drives more customers to the big stores who are happy making more money off you when you don't bother to negotiate price. You feel good because you saved money over local camera store, but realistically you just made the big box store very happy because their margin on this item is twice what the local stores is and you still think you got a super deal. It's sad, but it's crony capitalism at its finest.
[/



Well if B&H "loves it" then they will really love that I will not be buying the Canon- 24-105mm f/4L IS EF USM AF Lens USA OR the B+W- 77mm UV Haze MRC 010M Filter to go on it OR the B+W- 77mm Kaesemann Circular Polarizer MRC Filter to go on it OR the Bower- CS77 77mm Pro Snap-On Lens Cap to go on it OR the Sensei- 62-77mm Filter Wrench (Set of 2) to undo any stuck filters.

I had planned to buy all the above items next week, but I won't now. They are probably rolling on the floor laughing insanely, right?

 >:(

Somehow I don't think BH is going to lose much sleep over your decision, thousands of others aren't too likely to get upset over a 100 difference here and there on a 1000 item especially when the past price is no longer good (sorry my flux capacitor bit the dust and my dolorian has been totaled). And at some point you'll bite the bullet. Or maybe you bought one off of big value inc sale today on eBay. So you traded a warrantee for a lower price. Everything has its price.
« Last Edit: November 01, 2012, 06:53:11 PM by robbymack »

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #74 on: November 01, 2012, 06:51:30 PM »