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Author Topic: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today  (Read 39171 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #120 on: November 02, 2012, 02:47:55 PM »
@ cliffwang, if you spend your life waiting for the price to reach your level, you'll end up either waiting a very long time, or you will end up buying antiquated technology (I can get a 1D II for less than I paid for my 7D, but I do not want an 8MP body that cannot go above ISO 3200). Canon may lose some customers , or rather, should I say some existing Canon shooters may defer their purchase, but ultimately they will upgrade at some point in the future and they'll get a better used price for their existing body as a result of this policy.

I think you missed my point.
If I didn't get a good deal, I wouldn't buy my 5D3.  I am very happy with my 5D3; However, if I needed to make a decision again to pay full price to upgrade my 5D2, I wouldn't.  In this point Canon is not going make any penny from me.
Two of my colleagues is not going to upgrade to 5D3 if the MAP pricing policy lets them pay full price.  Actually one of them is jumping to Nikon because he doesn't have any EF mount lens.
We could upgrade our camera every 3 to 4 years if we think the price is reasonable(no matter retail discount or Canon discount).  The new MAP pricing will just let us slow the upgrade or switch to other competitors.  What happens here is Canon is not only going to loss it revenue for now but also it market share for long term.  I have used Canon gears for years and I really don't want to see that happens.
Anyway, it's too early to tell the MAP is good for Canon or not.  Since I have upgraded to 5D3 and have enough gears, I am not going to worry about that for another few years.  Time will tell if Canon made a right decision or not.

What I don't get about what your saying is that you sound like photography is your business, in which case depending on the type of photography you do, 1 job makes up the difference in cost.  But, your bargain hunting as if you were a standard consumer.  I understand the price jaw drop for a standard consumer, but if your in business then this is just a CODB issue and any new piece of equipment should be accounted for in your overall rates/number of jobs you take on per year.
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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #120 on: November 02, 2012, 02:47:55 PM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #121 on: November 02, 2012, 02:53:59 PM »
There's a psychological thing for me:  I find it very difficult to pay $3300 today for a camera for which many people paid $2800 yesterday.

Not gonna happen!

My 5DII still produces great pics, I could easily wait for a 5D IV, or something nikon or sony has in a couple of years.

If many people react the same way as you, the MAP will come down, plain and simple.

many ups and downs, but, the mk3 has been in the top 20 for dslr sales at amazon since its release.  Today it's ranked at #5 ---and 1-4 in the ranking list are all sub $1000 cameras.  and oddly enough, the mk2 is selling well as well...currently up ahead of both the d800 and the d600.  So like it or not, canon is selling cameras
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Chuck Alaimo

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #122 on: November 02, 2012, 03:00:42 PM »
@ Etienne, it is human nature to worry about what others did or didn't do (in this instance 'pay'), but you should only worry about yourself. Two years ago, the graduating MBA class at Harvard University were given a survey questionnaire with 2 options and were asked to specify which they would prefer:

(1) to get a job paying $200,000 per year, whilst the rest of your class secure jobs paying $250,000

or

(2) secure a job paying a starting salary of $120,000, whilst your classmates get jobs on $80,000

The result: the majority opted for (2) :o They were more concerned with relative position and rankings than absolute income. The moral of this story: forget what someone else paid for a DSLR, and focus on whether in the future a new DSLR would suit your needs, then save the necessary cash to get what you desire.


Good points, but it's an emotional thing as much as it is an extra $500. Plus, I don't really need the 5DIII, I just want it. My 5DII is still a great camera, but I am readily tempted by shiny new toys.

If my 5DII breaks, then I will need to get a new camera. In the meantime I'll just wait for a really good deal, or the next round of upgrades.

Hate to say it, but, this is where I have to give kudo's to canon for pricing a pro grade body at pro grade prices!  If you worked as a photographer, and the type of photography dictated being able to nail a good shot at high ISO's (like most wedding photographers have too) then $500 would be covered by 1/4 of one wedding.   Just saying...
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tron

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #123 on: November 02, 2012, 03:02:38 PM »
So if Nikon didn't exist 5DIII would be excellent and now it is not?
And who decides what is the correct number of megapixels?

Well, I never said Canon was not a good camera - only overpriced. And yes, economics 101 tells us that in the absence of competition Canon would command a higher price. But when they are not king of the hill any more, they better price their products competitively.
I agree on that.

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #124 on: November 02, 2012, 03:16:33 PM »
When a price jumps a couple hundred dollars (or more) for no good reason it POs me. I can see charging more for a new product and then adjusting for the market and competition but not just bumping the price from one hour to the next. A person can make up any rational/excuse they want but that's how I feel and I don't think I am alone.

If you don't mind paying whatever the price is today that is your choice. Just like it is my prerogative to not.

This is NOT how a free capitalist economy works. This is price fixing. I have heard "levelling the playing field" used which is BS and at minimum a socialist method. It should be illegal in the US.

Buy it or not, it depends on you.

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #125 on: November 02, 2012, 03:19:02 PM »
If I want to shoot daylight landscape with tilt-shift lenses and get amazing detail at low ISO's, I'll go D800. 

Except for that pesky 'PC-E 24mm control knob hits the flash housing' issue...

Yeah, except for that!  :)
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tron

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #126 on: November 02, 2012, 03:30:17 PM »
If I want to shoot daylight landscape with tilt-shift lenses and get amazing detail at low ISO's, I'll go D800. 

Except for that pesky 'PC-E 24mm control knob hits the flash housing' issue...

Yeah, except for that!  :)

I 'll put it in another way: If  I want to shoot daylight landscape with 5DMkIII or 5DMkII I would chose TS-E 17 L and TS-E 24 L II  ;D
« Last Edit: November 03, 2012, 10:47:18 PM by tron »

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #126 on: November 02, 2012, 03:30:17 PM »

cliffwang

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #127 on: November 02, 2012, 05:18:58 PM »
@ cliffwang, if you spend your life waiting for the price to reach your level, you'll end up either waiting a very long time, or you will end up buying antiquated technology (I can get a 1D II for less than I paid for my 7D, but I do not want an 8MP body that cannot go above ISO 3200). Canon may lose some customers , or rather, should I say some existing Canon shooters may defer their purchase, but ultimately they will upgrade at some point in the future and they'll get a better used price for their existing body as a result of this policy.

I think you missed my point.
If I didn't get a good deal, I wouldn't buy my 5D3.  I am very happy with my 5D3; However, if I needed to make a decision again to pay full price to upgrade my 5D2, I wouldn't.  In this point Canon is not going make any penny from me.
Two of my colleagues is not going to upgrade to 5D3 if the MAP pricing policy lets them pay full price.  Actually one of them is jumping to Nikon because he doesn't have any EF mount lens.
We could upgrade our camera every 3 to 4 years if we think the price is reasonable(no matter retail discount or Canon discount).  The new MAP pricing will just let us slow the upgrade or switch to other competitors.  What happens here is Canon is not only going to loss it revenue for now but also it market share for long term.  I have used Canon gears for years and I really don't want to see that happens.
Anyway, it's too early to tell the MAP is good for Canon or not.  Since I have upgraded to 5D3 and have enough gears, I am not going to worry about that for another few years.  Time will tell if Canon made a right decision or not.

What I don't get about what your saying is that you sound like photography is your business, in which case depending on the type of photography you do, 1 job makes up the difference in cost.  But, your bargain hunting as if you were a standard consumer.  I understand the price jaw drop for a standard consumer, but if your in business then this is just a CODB issue and any new piece of equipment should be accounted for in your overall rates/number of jobs you take on per year.

I am just a hobbyist and taking photos for my family and friends.  Canon might think high-end DSLR bodies are for only professional who will not care pay premium for their gears.  Guess what 3 of my colleagues in this office  has FF cameras.  One of our colleagues is moving to FF body.  Unfortunately, he is switch to Nikon.  If Canon doesn't care about this market, it will loss many business from people like us.
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roguewave

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #128 on: November 02, 2012, 05:42:24 PM »
When a price jumps a couple hundred dollars (or more) for no good reason it POs me. I can see charging more for a new product and then adjusting for the market and competition but not just bumping the price from one hour to the next. A person can make up any rational/excuse they want but that's how I feel and I don't think I am alone.

If you don't mind paying whatever the price is today that is your choice. Just like it is my prerogative to not.

This is NOT how a free capitalist economy works. This is price fixing. I have heard "levelling the playing field" used which is BS and at minimum a socialist method. It should be illegal in the US.

Buy it or not, it depends on you.

I personally don't have a problem with the manufacturer setting a firm price for their products. In fact, I'd rather not waste my energy timing the market in search of a good deal.

My gripe is when the price is too high, milking the early adopters, taking advantage of the fact that most people won't bother switching systems for a few hundred $, and offering periodic rebates to prop up sales volume. Why not just set a competitive price from the start?

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #129 on: November 02, 2012, 06:14:49 PM »
I am just a hobbyist and taking photos for my family and friends.  Canon might think high-end DSLR bodies are for only professional who will not care pay premium for their gears.  Guess what 3 of my colleagues in this office  has FF cameras.  One of our colleagues is moving to FF body.  Unfortunately, he is switch to Nikon.  If Canon doesn't care about this market, it will loss many business from people like us.

I'm sure Canon cares about the entire market.  When you buy a new body/lens/flash, do you register it with Canon?  It's funny - they call it 'warranty registration', but doing so is neither necessary nor sufficient for coverage, you need to furnish proof of purchase.  So why the myth of 'warranty registration'?  It's market research, pure and simple. They know who's buying what, their demographic info, what gear they already have, their job category, and income.
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Greg_M

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #130 on: November 02, 2012, 06:19:53 PM »
I personally don't have a problem with the manufacturer setting a firm price for their products. In fact, I'd rather not waste my energy timing the market in search of a good deal.

My gripe is when the price is too high, milking the early adopters, taking advantage of the fact that most people won't bother switching systems for a few hundred $, and offering periodic rebates to prop up sales volume. Why not just set a competitive price from the start?



If the price is set and fixed it is not (by definition) competitive.

Q: Why do retailers lower their prices?
A: To be more competitive and sell more product.

Q: If a retailer has a philosophy of increasing sales by lowering prices why would they suddenly raise them?
A: Because they were told to.

Q: What is price fixing?
A: Price fixing is an agreement between participants on the same side in a market to buy or sell a product, service, or commodity only at a fixed price, or maintain the market conditions such that the price is maintained at a given level by controlling supply and demand.

It's your money, it's up to you. Personally I don't like to be controlled or manipulated.

I LIKE to shop for the best deal 

cliffwang

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #131 on: November 02, 2012, 06:48:09 PM »
I am just a hobbyist and taking photos for my family and friends.  Canon might think high-end DSLR bodies are for only professional who will not care pay premium for their gears.  Guess what 3 of my colleagues in this office  has FF cameras.  One of our colleagues is moving to FF body.  Unfortunately, he is switch to Nikon.  If Canon doesn't care about this market, it will loss many business from people like us.

I'm sure Canon cares about the entire market.  When you buy a new body/lens/flash, do you register it with Canon?  It's funny - they call it 'warranty registration', but doing so is neither necessary nor sufficient for coverage, you need to furnish proof of purchase.  So why the myth of 'warranty registration'?  It's market research, pure and simple. They know who's buying what, their demographic info, what gear they already have, their job category, and income.
I thought Canon's register system sucks.  I haven't thought it tries to collection our information.
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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #132 on: November 02, 2012, 11:07:46 PM »
I missed out on the $2994 so I searched around and for me I went for the 5D3 via Amazon @ $3299 since I got free shipping, no sales tax, free 32gig SD card, 2% back (credited to my amazon account=$66.00), $3 in MP3 music credit and 12 months finance @ 0% interest.  Doesnt make up the total difference but I feel better knowing I am not paying the full $3499.  I have my old gear ready to go into trade-in and depending on what I get for that I can get the 600EX practically for nothing. 

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #132 on: November 02, 2012, 11:07:46 PM »

tnargs

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #133 on: November 03, 2012, 06:24:59 AM »

If the price is set and fixed it is not (by definition) competitive.....It's your money, it's up to you. Personally I don't like to be controlled or manipulated.

I agree. Like I posted in the other Canon MAP thread, I don't think it's even legal where I live (in Australia):

http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index.phtml/itemId/322982

They are doing it to you because they can! They can't do it here because we have laws that protect consumers from that sort of asymmetrical abuse of power.

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #134 on: November 03, 2012, 08:53:04 AM »
As others have noted, this creeping phenomenon affects mainly US customers - in this latest instance anyway.

However, it has other consequences to competition in the world market, without the "price setting" of the dominant market.

There is also likely to be considerable collateral damage in the US market; not from what people are discussing now, but a result of the "banning" of easily-accessible price-comparison information.

That effect is this: a customer can no longer hit a few web pages and glean the best deal on the day.  They must now jump through multiple hoops and consume not only their own time and resources, but those of however many retailers they choose to canvas, looking for the best price.

Instead of 'doing the rounds' in a few minutes with a web browser (or a visit to a price-watch site), they will find themselves calling toll-free numbers, waiting on hold, waiting for call-backs, adding items to yet more "abandoned" shopping carts and other hugely time-wasting activities.  Instead of the retailers' websites doing all the work, they will be answering telephones and writing out quotes.  Which is clearly much less efficient.  I suppose it will create jobs though!  Expect prices to rise as a result.

The 'first resort' of some of these retaillers seems to be bundling excess stock into questionable 'deals' as 'free bonus items' at the MAP.  Deals which are very hard to compare.

Noone is stopping the retailers from selling at lower prices - only from advertising those prices.

Which brings up an interesting conundrum.  If a certain price-watching site (or any new one) decides to collect and publish the "best price of the week" off their own bat, is there anything Canon can do about it?  If that website is independent and not owned or controlled by any Canon Authorized Dealer, can it be considered "Advertising" at all?  All it takes is a link with a 'coupon code'...

There is a business opportunity right there...

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Re: Canon's MAP Pricing Goes Into Full Effect Today
« Reply #134 on: November 03, 2012, 08:53:04 AM »