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Author Topic: Choosing a kit thinking long term  (Read 2510 times)

Grumbaki

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Choosing a kit thinking long term
« on: November 02, 2012, 04:40:57 AM »
After many reviews read on the internet, I post this thread to get opinions on "my ideal kit" I came up with.

Short background: Amateur not super rich but not tight on budget. Only recently came to DSLR.
Usual shooting: Street candids and portraiture. Nightlife. Occasional landscape as i have opportunities to travel but no huge passion for it. No interest at all in specialized wildlife. Hates flash.
Gear: 60D, kit 17-85, EFS10-22, nifty fifty.

Ok so the whole idea, as i'm not tight on budget and will probably, in the (very) long run end up with FF is to plan the kit very rigorously for the future by going with high end that will fit the FF. That also implies little or no buy and ressell (complicated where i live). Airplane carry on kit is also a plus so I'm thinking 4-5 lens total.

70-200 2.8 IS v2 is coming next week. That's a fact.

Next is more complicated as the kit sucks balls. Should have done better homework on it before purchase.

BUT on the other hand I really appreciate doing ops at night, without flash for sure. While the 50 is great for the price, I find the focal either too long or too short. It's also too soft wide open (dim lit bar/club or streets) and way too slow to focus. Low keepers rate :(

So the idea is to replace the kit lens (probably 24-70L II) and to get longer and(/or?) shorter night lens. Shorter is easy, targeting for 35L, as it'll be also fine while going FF (I love shooting at 22 on the 60D so used to that focal and until then it'll "be" a 50). Longer is quite ok too as 135L get praised everywhere.

The real questions now are:
1- would you prioritize replacing the bad kit or fixing the night lens issue?
2- how useable is a 135L on a crop? How good is it for very poor light shooting? The 85L would be both quite expensive and not fit for what i do (slow AF in fast & dark environment) and, on FF, would be a focal i seem not to be confortable with (yet?)

Right now my whole plan would actually be in the hands of canon: 35LII before I can purchase the 24-70LII? at what price?

Thx for your opinions
EDIT: Renting isn't an option here.

PS: Yay, first post!
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 04:44:00 AM by Grumbaki »

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Choosing a kit thinking long term
« on: November 02, 2012, 04:40:57 AM »

Random Orbits

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2012, 06:02:59 AM »
You should consider replacing the 60D with a body that has AFMA before investing much in high speed glass.  It makes a big difference.  It makes a difference with f/2.8 lenses but the difference is much more signficant at f/1.4 or f/1.2.

I like the 35L as a low light option.  135L is too long on a a crop body esp. indoors, but you can confirm that once you have a chance to play with the 70-200.

dave

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2012, 06:09:45 AM »
I would test the 35L and 24-70L ii if you can before choosing. I wasn't impressed with the image quality of the 35L below 2.8 and the 24-70mmii is just as good at f/2.8 or above. There is not a particularly large difference in size between the two either - neither are tiny but they are not hugely intrusive either.

You should consider replacing the 60D with a body that has AFMA before investing much in high speed glass.  It makes a big difference.  It makes a difference with f/2.8 lenses but the difference is much more signficant at f/1.4 or f/1.2.

I like the 35L as a low light option.  135L is too long on a a crop body esp. indoors, but you can confirm that once you have a chance to play with the 70-200.

+ 1 on the AFMA.

Rather than a 135L, which is a cracker, with your 70-200 coming I would aim for a body that will do well at high ISO's
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 06:12:10 AM by dave »

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2012, 07:16:39 AM »
You should consider replacing the 60D with a body that has AFMA before investing much in high speed glass.

Agree

The 60D is the main thing holding you back at this point. Consider the 5D3 with the 24-105 kit lens; you will not be disappointed.

bbasiaga

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2012, 08:30:45 AM »
Is that 24-70II going to be fast enough?  Sounds like you enjoy shooting in very dark places with no flash - which means even 2.8 might be a bit too slow for you.  A newer body like the 5DmkIII or 6D would give you a couple stops of ISO to help with that, and the 6D's very sensitive center point (-3EV is it?) could be right up your alley. 

As for waiting on the 35L II - there is no way to tell when (or if) that's coming, or what it'll cost when it gets here.  It'll be your choice to wait or go with what's out there now. 

The 135L is a great lens, but an a crop body its equivalent to 216mm.  Pretty darn tight for environmental work.  Hard to use indoors.  On a FF - it kicks butt as a portrait lens and is much more versatile in open areas. 

-Brian



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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2012, 09:03:43 AM »
For low light, I tend to mount my YN 565 with flash firing disabled in the camera menu. A few momentary red dots don't usually bother anyone, even when a flash would. The crisp lines from its AF assist really help acquire focus on my T2i. Haven't used Canon flashes this way, but much better than the mushy red blobs from my Sigma 530 Super. If you want something less obtrusive than a flash head, the YN 622 transceivers are low profile, inexpensive, and include the same AF assist emitter.

I mostly shoot my own family, so I'll accept some noise in low-light from a slow zoom (usually the 15-85), but I'd never get the shot at all if I had to wait for a slow zoom to focus.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 09:19:51 AM by chanceslost »

robbymack

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2012, 09:54:05 AM »
While it seems the crop sensor is holding you back and should get get a 5d series, ideally a mark iii, but the mark ii is just as capable and you can invest the difference in a good FF lens.  you really don't have anything other than the 50 right now that is suited for low light so maybe stick with the 60d for a bit and buy some faster glass. If you reach that limit and aren't happy then maybe it's time for a ff camera.

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #6 on: November 02, 2012, 09:54:05 AM »

Grumbaki

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 01:36:40 PM »
Thx for the answers.

Kinda confirm what I thought about the 60D. I'll try to see what is second hand market here but otherwise 5d will have to wait as I'd prefer glass first.

As to AFMA, if I get it right I can get it done in a Canon service center right? Just bring them glasses and body, nope? Price should be minimal where I am.

Actually to be more clear, general and tele are for day use street (yeah I have to snipe to get candids here as a tall white guy gets a lot of attention in non touristic Asia). 2.8 is usable in some places at night but the typical places i shoot I need to go commando: 50mm f1.8 3200 iso and 1/20. (would that be EV-9?) Handheld in a crowd it is...brutal.

Maybe I should have started by that...Any other option than the best bodies and the fastest glass for nightlife with no flash?

Edit: night ops are outdoor too, hence the 135 desire, but I guess that'll wait for FF.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 01:42:58 PM by Grumbaki »

Dylan777

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 02:56:15 PM »
I agree with most posters on FF.

If you enjoy shooting in low light without flash, both 5D II or III are great. If I'm you, I would sell your current gear and get a 5D III(II) + 24-70 II for now. 70-200 f2.8 IS II is a great lens, but that can wait.

The picture below was shoot with 5D III + 24-70 II no flash. Trunk & Treat School Halloween, parking lot,  f2.8 -- 1/60 -- ISO8000.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2012, 02:59:50 PM by Dylan777 »
Body: 1DX -- 5D III
Zoom: 24-70L II -- 70-200L f2.8 IS II
Prime: 40mm -- 85L II -- 135L -- 400L f2.8 IS II

bbasiaga

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 04:06:36 PM »
Any other option than the best bodies and the fastest glass for nightlife with no flash?


Unfortunately, those are demanding conditions, and to get better results than you are getting with the gear you have, you need the next level of gear. 

The body with higher ISO will help.  Faster glass will help.  Flash will help.  All three together will give the most versatility.

Flash will help the most with what you currently have.  Since flash is out, you've got to look at glass.  Shooting wide open on fast glass is demanding on the focus system, which will be strained in dark conditions (true on any body, but more true on some than others - like the 6D with a 'see in the dark' centerpoint).  It is also demanding on you since the DOF will be very slim and you'll have to manage that. 

For the cost of the 70-200 F2.8 II, you could make the change to FF.  Get a 5dMK II, new or used, and a good prime like the 40mm 2.8 panckake, or maybe the 35mm F2, or even one of the faster MF lenses from Samyang/Rokinon.  If you go used (which you said is hard in your location), you might even pull off a used 5DII and a new Tamron 24-70 2.8VC lens.  The sale of your current gear would bring some of that cash back. 

You're kind of riding a line here.  Generally, glass first is a good idea.  But under your conditions you're going to need both glass and a newer body, since flash isn't going to work for you.  Hard to say which to put first.  Since you're in primes territory though, I would say that you dont lose AS MUCH by going non-L as you do when you're talking about zooms.  The 40 pancake is stunning, particularly for its cost.  You can get some faster primes now, save money over L glass cost, and put that towards the FF body you're going to nee. 

-Brian

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 04:14:48 PM »
First, for extremely low light, get a FF body that can handle it.  A 5D MK II will give your low light work a big boost for very little additional money.  You can pickup the low cost 85mm f/1.8, 50mm f/1.8, and see if your 70-200mm zoom will do the job in low light with the ff body. 
 

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2012, 10:13:57 PM »
nothing wrong with what u have.. spend your money on training*...


no comment on your skills but i think we all should spend more learning and less on kit.

Act444

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 03:39:31 PM »
I would go with the 35L. Very natural FOV on the 60D and other 1.6x cameras.

The 70-200 2.8 is an excellent lens but in my opinion, it would seem way too obvious for street candids (it's big, it's white, it's heavy, it's attention-grabbing!)

Another option is to grab the 40mm 2.8 (excellent lens for the price) and then hold out for the new 6D (will come out to ~same price as 70-200). The 6D is supposed to be able to focus in lower light than any of the current Canon cameras currently out at the moment.

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Re: Choosing a kit thinking long term
« Reply #12 on: November 08, 2012, 03:39:31 PM »