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Author Topic: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?  (Read 14093 times)

sjp010

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2012, 12:09:50 PM »

It is

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_5D-vs-Canon_EOS_7D

Tom, if you read down in the link you sent, one of the advantages to the 5D in this comparison is "better image quality."  That was the only point RLPhoto was making, and your link helps make it for him.

Of course, the 7D is superior in a multitude of other ways. 

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #15 on: November 05, 2012, 12:09:50 PM »

K-amps

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #16 on: November 05, 2012, 12:14:19 PM »
According to what I've read before the 5D is pretty notorious with dusty sensors. As verysimplejason says above you'll get very little improvement and the camera doesn't have Live View (which isn't always essential but it's very, very handy). It also has an unreliable rear LCD with regards to producing accurate colours when reviewing your photos.

Personally, being a 5D mark II user, I would absolutely recommend you spend the extra cash on upgrading to the mark II - it's better to do that than buy a 5D mark I hoping to save for the 70-200 and then realise in a few weeks or a month that it's really not an upgrade at all.

If you shoot mainly portraits you should sell the 50mm f/1.4 for a few extra $$$ (I find 50mm not to be a useful portrait lens due to the distortion) to help towards the 70-200mm. I also suggest going for the cheaper NON IS version or even the f/4 NON IS version, the f/4 is a remarkable lens and and still sharp as hell and at around $600 you can't really argue with that! but to be absolutely honest with you the 100mm macro (f/2.8L ?) that you have is probably your best portrait lens - no need to go out and get a 70-200mm right away. Just get those legs working and move around a bit ;D haha

Definitely go for the 5D mark II, you won't regret it :)

+1:

The ISO improvement on the 5D over the T3 is not much, there is a difference and it is demonstratable, but you need to "nail" the exposure and not easy to get shot to shot in terms of usability but it is "technically" there ... the 5D2 however takes it to a whole new level... it is usable, cleaner, practical and just so much better in IQ.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 01:07:53 PM by K-amps »
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risc32

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #17 on: November 05, 2012, 12:15:26 PM »
that's a very funny comparo, i nearly thought i was reading the onion.(reason to buy the 5d, 1/8000th shutter...) the 5d is a very good camera, but the mk2 is better in a number of ways, and you'll have to weight it's advantages -vs- cost for what sort of things you are looking accomplish. I have a 5d for a few years now and use it regularly, despite having a mk3. i think i've cleaned the sensor once.... maybe. the LCD isn't so bad, but clearly not current tech.
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 12:20:10 PM by risc32 »

RLPhoto

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #18 on: November 05, 2012, 12:17:45 PM »
The 5Dc is still better than any APS-c camera canon currently makes in the IQ department. If you can over look its limitations, you'll be rewarded with files that are very similar to film. 

I was able to use all ISO speeds with good results, even ISO 3200 with some NR.

These are some examples

I think this is a fallacy, I bought an old 5d before jumping right to the 5d3 and it(5d) and my 7d were pretty much even in terms of image quality

It is

http://snapsort.com/compare/Canon_EOS_5D-vs-Canon_EOS_7D

Disagree. I've already had this discussion here.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9773.msg176369#msg176369

I could never get as clean ISO-3200 Shots w/o serious NR out of my 7D.

Un-edited full-res JPG from 5Dc @ 3200 W/ No NR below. I could only dream of this on my 7D.

http://images.us.viewbook.com/9a8bb8062cdfc9b86e057b85a601e742.jpg
« Last Edit: November 05, 2012, 12:20:22 PM by RLPhoto »

bycostello

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 08:18:10 PM »
i use a 5d as my 2nd camera on jobs.. nothing wrong with it.. and you'd not really see a difference between the images taken on that or my mk2...  however...  it doesn't have the same high iso capability, so depends on what you will use it for...

billnelson75

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 02:42:51 AM »
Thanks for the input everyone.  I was able to pickup a very nice used 5d on ebay for $585.  The prices vary pretty widely on ebay, but I think right around $600 is the most common range.  I've only had it for a week, but its already pretty evident that it blows my t3 out of the water for portraits.  The shallow DOF and bokeh is great, and while I wasn't super happy with the t3 even at low ISO's, this seems to be much better at 400 ISO than my t3.  I haven't had a reason to use much higher than that so far.  I will probably upgrade to a "newer" FF at some point, but I don't think I can go wrong with what I spent, and the quality of the photos are great.  If you can grab a nice condition 5d, I think it is something to consider if you are using an older rebel and you want to go FF. 

dtaylor

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 05:00:41 AM »
Disagree. I've already had this discussion here.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9773.msg176369#msg176369

I could never get as clean ISO-3200 Shots w/o serious NR out of my 7D.

Then you weren't doing proper comparisons. Review controlled tests and noise measurements. The 5Dc is not better than the 7D at 3200.

Quote
I could only dream of this on my 7D.

I see it all the time.

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2012, 05:00:41 AM »

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2012, 07:41:02 AM »
Disagree. I've already had this discussion here.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9773.msg176369#msg176369

I could never get as clean ISO-3200 Shots w/o serious NR out of my 7D.

Then you weren't doing proper comparisons. Review controlled tests and noise measurements. The 5Dc is not better than the 7D at 3200.

Quote
I could only dream of this on my 7D.

I see it all the time.

Sorry if I don't shoot shoot test chart but in real world use the 5Dc is better than the 7D.

bycostello

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2012, 07:45:00 AM »
i still use a 5d besides the iso beyond 800 it is a great camera

dtaylor

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2012, 03:03:24 PM »
Sorry if I don't shoot shoot test chart but in real world use the 5Dc is better than the 7D.

No it's not. We're not discussing opinion here. Noise levels are objective, testable reality. The 7D tests lower across the board (chroma, black, grey). This doesn't magically change with a "real world" scene.

The chroma noise difference in particular is human observable in print where the 7D clearly looks better.

RLPhoto

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2012, 03:16:03 PM »
Sorry if I don't shoot shoot test chart but in real world use the 5Dc is better than the 7D.

No it's not. We're not discussing opinion here. Noise levels are objective, testable reality. The 7D tests lower across the board (chroma, black, grey). This doesn't magically change with a "real world" scene.

The chroma noise difference in particular is human observable in print where the 7D clearly looks better.

Show me some of your ISO 3200 Shots from both cameras. I've owned both before and the 5Dc has better ISO performance.

Sporgon

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2012, 04:06:31 PM »
At Building PAnoramics we use 5D mark I and ii. We certainly won't stop using the Mk I untill it's worn out ! In practical terms IQ is great up to ISO 800, then it drops off a cliff. Both Mk I and ii are more at home shooting things that only move real slow...........
In practice the more modern aps-c cameras have caught up in IQ, but.......but.... There is something about the Mk I images, it's like the difference between a high quality zoom and a prime, sometimes the prime just produces that luminosity that lifts the picture. As for 12 bit vs 14, our Mk I images have just as much colour depth as the Mk ii, if not more, although I will agree that Mk ii data stands up to more pp manipulation.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 04:12:38 PM by Sporgon »

dtaylor

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2012, 05:20:25 PM »
Show me some of your ISO 3200 Shots from both cameras. I've owned both before and the 5Dc has better ISO performance.

No. You show hard evidence that the reproducible tests available at sites like DPReview and IR are wrong. I'm not the one waving my hand at and dismissing hard data. You are. Back it up or shut up.

And it better be perfect...and reproducible...right down to the last parameter. Not different subjects, lighting, and exposure, shot on the fly at different times and places, then compared, probably at the wrong magnification (i.e. 100% for both meaning the 7D file is inspected more closely), which is typical of people making claims that go against reality.

And don't reply with 36 point type like some child.

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2012, 05:20:25 PM »

atvinyard

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2012, 05:25:09 PM »
Ooooh, Ooooh! I want to get in the fight!

From my personal experience, the 5D has better image quality than my T2i(which has the same sensor as a 7D), especially at higher ISOs.  Also, I don't think anyone should be shooting either sensor at higher than 1600, because they both look like uber crap beyond that.

The 5D and 7D have similar noise levels, but the 5D is ever so slightly better, and for some reason seems to retain more detail.  The noise has a different character.

As far as it being quantifiable, when I look at comparisons online, they all seem to agree with the above, so I'm not sure where dtaylor is getting his info.

Check out DxO marks comparison.  I know their overall ratings are meaningless, because no one can figure how on God's green earth they justify the weighting, but I think their testing is consistent for the individual tests and therefore, acceptable for comparison. 

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/645%7C0/(brand)/Canon/(appareil2)/619%7C0/(brand2)/Canon/(appareil3)/176%7C0/(brand3)/Canon

The 5D only loses in the dynamic range department at low ISO.  And it's better than the 7D at ISO 800 and up.

Have a nice day everyone.
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RLPhoto

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2012, 06:24:03 PM »
Show me some of your ISO 3200 Shots from both cameras. I've owned both before and the 5Dc has better ISO performance.

No. You show hard evidence that the reproducible tests available at sites like DPReview and IR are wrong. I'm not the one waving my hand at and dismissing hard data. You are. Back it up or shut up.

And it better be perfect...and reproducible...right down to the last parameter. Not different subjects, lighting, and exposure, shot on the fly at different times and places, then compared, probably at the wrong magnification (i.e. 100% for both meaning the 7D file is inspected more closely), which is typical of people making claims that go against reality.

And don't reply with 36 point type like some child.

I made a statement, You said I'm wrong. The burden of proof is on you.

I've provided many, many samples of the 5Dc's superb IQ. You have provided none.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 06:26:52 PM by RLPhoto »

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Re: a used Canon 5D, a budget way to go full frame?
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2012, 06:24:03 PM »