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The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« on: May 31, 2011, 07:11:48 PM »
Happiness coming? I’m told there will be a shakeup in the Canon lineup by the end of 2011.

1Ds Series We’ve talked about the amalgamation of the 1D and 1Ds line in the past, the next 1Ds may prove to make that talk a reality. I’m told that there will be no more 1D after the next 1Ds.

Does that mean the next 1Ds will do what the current 1D does? Or will the 1D Mark IV remain current until a 1Ds Mark V? I’m unsure at the moment.

It was also suggested APS-H in the EOS line is finished.

“5D” Series I call it “series” due to the suggestion of a split in the 5D lineup.

A 5D Mark III with advanced video features and a 5D Mark III for stills?

Canon has yet to directly monetize video capabilities in DSLRs. Yes, the 5D2 is a bigtime video performer, but the camera wouldn’t cost less if it didn’t shoot video. If Canon does away with the 1D line of cameras, there will be a price hole that a video feature rich camera could fit into.

CR’s Take All plausible and I’m sure I will hear a lot more about these ideas. It doesn’t make sense in my mind to have 2 EOS-1 bodies in the lineup, the number of these they sell compared to the 5D Mark II is minuscule.

I wonder about technology though, can you offer a 9fps+ capability in a 30+mp camera? There’s lots of technical people that know better than I do.

Splitting the “5″ series camera for stills and video has been asked for by a lot of still photographers who don’t care about video. You won’t see a 5D Mark III still camera with basic video features costing less than the current 5D Mark II, but a 5D Mark III with advanced video features will surely attract a lot of buyers even if it’s at a premium.

I’m willing to wager Canon could sell a lot more 5D Mark III “video editions” than 1D Mark Vs.

cr

« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 07:21:03 PM by Canon Rumors »
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The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« on: May 31, 2011, 07:11:48 PM »

max

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2011, 07:28:33 PM »
Seems very possible to have a 5D mark III at the same price cost as the older one for stills with the same video functions but 720p 60fps, and a 5D mark III video for 3000-3500...

And where can I find the market share of each canon camera in the canon lineup?? Does this info exist?

AG

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2011, 08:33:15 PM »
The way these companies segregate their product lines makes no sense to me sometimes.

What would make sense would be for them to do something along the following.

FULL FRAME SENSORS
1D series - 1 camera top of the line Pro shooting ALL the bells and whistles.
5D series - 1 camera aimed at the semi pro shooter (no video)
7D series - 1 camera, this is now the video DSLR, ALL the positive features of the 5D plus 1080p video, headphone jack, mic connectors, accurate HDMI out etc

CROP SENSORS
60D series - 1 camera pretty much what we have atm
600D series - 1 camera again same as we currently have.
1100D series - 1 camera, My first DSLR style camera.

This way the crop sensor cameras are now relegated to the lower rung.
It would also mean that FF shooters can downgrade to say the 60D and still use their L series lenses, but not the other way around being that the crops use EF-s by default.

To me streamlining the cameras like this makes sense because then you know that the cameras are built to a specific spec and not a price point.

And YES i know that some pro's like shooting on crop sensors, they still can.
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2011, 08:36:52 PM »
AG: I like where you're going with this.
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fernando

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2011, 08:43:49 PM »
Count me in for the 'video edition' of the 5D ;)

alipaulphotography

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2011, 08:45:02 PM »
Pretty interesting AG. Should probably arrange the 7D between the 1D and the 5D with your proposed product line.

A video camera and a stills camera isn't such a bad idea. I'm still quite fond of basic video features in my dslr though with stills being my primary.

Justin

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2011, 08:57:18 PM »
So I'm perfectly in agreement on your take on the 1Ds and 1D lines, Craig, but I question why Canon would start to monetize video at this stage when it's been added to every Canon dslr camera released recently. The only thing that would differentiate the 5D line would be some kind of super enhanced video shooting qualities, 60p, 4,2,2, raw codec in one body and just regular old 1080p with standard codec in another.

That alone still doesn't seem like enough to make a difference. Sensor technology, AF tech, processing engines, viewfinders, and body construction are the current standard differentiators between the lines. I just don't' see that changing any time soon.

My wishlist for the 5D series would be to keep it as one body; they could call it something creative like the 5D3. Give it a 32 mpx or thereabouts sensor with improved dynamic range and improved high iso (better by 1 stop than the 5D2, clean iso 6400 please). Weaken the AA filter please. How about dynamic 1.6 and 1.3 crop? Give it a decent AF engine with enough AF points, and for heaven's sake make more than one point as accurate as the center point on the 5D2.  Take us to 5fps. Make it fully weather sealed. 100% viewfinder and throw in a high res 3.2 in lcd to boot. One digic 5 processor could power the rig. $3500

My wishlist for the 1Ds line would be to make it more like medium format with upgradeable sensor technology. Body upgrades could come every 7-10 years. Back upgrades 2-3 years. Three nice dense sensor options to the tune of 32mpx, 40mpx, and 50mpx. Significantly weaken the AA filter please. Fast AF, fast fps, dynamic 1.3 and 1.6 crop. How about 10 fps in dynamic crop mode and 6 in full frame mode? Make it rugged, even with the replaceable back (Canon could accomplish this with a sealed recessed design). Give us a huge 3.5 in. high density pixel lcd touch screen and call it a day. Two digic 5 processors could power the rig. $6500 $7700 $8900


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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2011, 08:57:18 PM »

justicend

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2011, 09:02:30 PM »
Okay Here is the point. If 5D is going two version for STILLs and Video. If serious photographers don't want advance video features. Then why would videographers want the STILLs features ? Why simply Canon doesnt make interchangeble big sensor camcorder with name "5D" on it. So EF lens can be used with it. And sensor size can be reduced, cause video aspect ratio does not require 36 x 24. Other companies are already with this idea. Good Luck Canon.  :o
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 09:04:09 PM by justicend »

dilbert

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2011, 09:12:12 PM »
Will those that buy the 1D vs the 1Ds be prepared to pay more? One supposes that if it is mostly corporate or business related then yes, but you never know...

It may be that they use a technique similar to what Nikon is using - high FPS from a smaller section or selection of pixels than is available. i.e. do the 1.3x or 1.5x or 1.6x crop in firmware, or even just sample every second pixel, etc. So a 30MP stills camera (full frame) at 3FPS might be a 11-17MP crop camera at 9FPS.

I can't see how the "basic" video features will be any less than what we have now. But it may be too late to split the lineup for that purpose. Now that video in a DSLR is pervasive, it's only a matter of time before a detachable lens camera appears at the low-end (<=$1000) that will have things like raw video capture, continual power focus, etc.

ddg1263

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #9 on: May 31, 2011, 09:23:04 PM »
Maybe the 5d series line will split by adding a new 3d line that was rumored months ago. On one rumor, they had the price list of a 3D as being very expensive. And if they reorganize the 1D line too they may collapse some features of the 1D mark IV into the 3D line and pump up the video operations. This may be the low light high ISO camera too.

So the New 1DS will be the studio camera with high megapixels and the flagship camera.

3D will be the field camera with low light capacity and above average video capacity.

5D will be just stills with standard video features.   

Kind of like they are now but it will set the platform for further R & D for each product where they could specialize in their respective development.

I don’t know anything but it sounds good if you say it really fast!
« Last Edit: May 31, 2011, 09:34:17 PM by ddg1263 »

gene_can_sing

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #10 on: May 31, 2011, 10:26:16 PM »
As a video guy who want a Full Frame video camera (5d3), I think it's best to split the the 5d3. Because one cannot really exist with the other, and have an ideal camera.

Many stills people hate video, and the video people don't want a really high Mega-Pixel because that's what causes line-skipping and aliasing in video.

I would be happy with a 5D3 video enhanced that would max out at 12 mega-pixels or even less to prevent heavy line-skipping. I think many video people would be fine with that also.

I also think this is smart for Canon because the video thing is moving so fast that they cannot wait another 4 years (like they have with Digic 4) to update their video cameras. That way, the video 5D3 can be independent from the stills, and evolve at a different pace. Still cameras are harder to evolve because they are already so good. DSLR Video on the other hand, is pretty new, especially full frame video.

That way to Video edition can have the 4:2:2 codec and maybe RAW output to a recorder, which would be amazing and Slow Motion

That way Canon can keep up with the competition which is heavy from Panasonic and Sony.

Plus, they would probably sell more cameras this way.

So if you're reading this Canon, you have my blessing to split the 5D3 line. Hehe....

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2011, 10:35:14 PM »

So if you're reading this Canon, you have my blessing to split the 5D3 line. Hehe....

One of the things that appeals to many photographers is not having to carry two cameras around, when you can have one that does both stills and videos.

A camcorder is the thing to get for videos only, Canon needs to produce one with FF.

But, for PJ's, wedding photographers, those who would like to occasionally include a video clip anlong with their stills, both features need to be in one camera.

That is not lost on Canon, so, while they might produce a $65,000 FF video camera like the Red, a full featured video DSLR for $2600 is not likely.  Canon will merely add a few upgrades, as little as they can get away with.

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 10:38:09 PM »
Good to hear that things are starting to move towards a more reasonable mid-tier/prosumer product line up and the simplification of the 1D/Ds line.

However, what I am worried about is the price of the single 1D-line model that will inherit both the speed of the 1D and the photo quality of the 1Ds. Will it remain at the USD 5,000 range or will Canon choose the USD 7,000 neighborhood? :-\

Frankly, I hope the standard flagship will remain at the 1D/D3s level....
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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #12 on: May 31, 2011, 10:38:09 PM »

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2011, 11:15:29 PM »
The way these companies segregate their product lines makes no sense to me sometimes.

What would make sense would be for them to do something along the following.

FULL FRAME SENSORS
1D series - 1 camera top of the line Pro shooting ALL the bells and whistles.
5D series - 1 camera aimed at the semi pro shooter (no video)
7D series - 1 camera, this is now the video DSLR, ALL the positive features of the 5D plus 1080p video, headphone jack, mic connectors, accurate HDMI out etc

CROP SENSORS
60D series - 1 camera pretty much what we have atm
600D series - 1 camera again same as we currently have.
1100D series - 1 camera, My first DSLR style camera.

This way the crop sensor cameras are now relegated to the lower rung.
It would also mean that FF shooters can downgrade to say the 60D and still use their L series lenses, but not the other way around being that the crops use EF-s by default.

To me streamlining the cameras like this makes sense because then you know that the cameras are built to a specific spec and not a price point.

And YES i know that some pro's like shooting on crop sensors, they still can.

Ugh don't like the idea at all of either a slow slug and video or speed and no video. Makes no sense anyway since the digics to handle high quality video well would also be what you need to drive high fps, high quality stills.

And how much did video add to the 5D2 cost?? Development, but that gets spread across them all. The h.264 encoder chip is about all I can see in added parts. Ridiculous! Although I wouldn't put it past Canon marketing division to make something up.
I suppose if they made one with RAW video out perhaps that might increase costs a bit especially if it did 4k video too.

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2011, 11:28:33 PM »
Okay Here is the point. If 5D is going two version for STILLs and Video. If serious photographers don't want advance video features. Then why would videographers want the STILLs features ? Why simply Canon doesnt make interchangeble big sensor camcorder with name "5D" on it. So EF lens can be used with it. And sensor size can be reduced, cause video aspect ratio does not require 36 x 24. Other companies are already with this idea. Good Luck Canon.  :o

yeah, i mean the whole point is that it can do BOTH well, otherwise how is the new video 5D3 much different from a video camera? maybe it takes a few stills but maybe it also has bad video ergonomics. I don't get this at all.

this isn't the split people have been clamoring for

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Re: The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]
« Reply #14 on: May 31, 2011, 11:28:33 PM »