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Author Topic: 7D Mark II Autofocus  (Read 5473 times)

amarlez

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7D Mark II Autofocus
« on: June 15, 2011, 02:41:05 PM »
If Canon is doing away with the 1D line and there's a lot of talk of the 5D Mark III inheriting the 7D's autofocus, would it be unreasonable to guess that the 7D Mark II would pick up the 45-point system? If not, what would differentiate it (essentially other than frame rate and a smaller sensor) from the 5D Mark II? It seems like the 7D did to the 1D as what the 5Ds did to the 1Ds—cut into sales by providing a cheaper alternative for those who don't need all the bells and whistles of the 1D family. The only difference is, the 1D's have a worthless sensor size.

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7D Mark II Autofocus
« on: June 15, 2011, 02:41:05 PM »

zerotiu

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2011, 03:02:05 PM »
I think even though the cheapest canon full frame has 45 AF points, the best canon crop camera won't have it. I mean it will always has lower AF points.

Or maybe there will be some point that AF points are too many (do you really want more AF points in 1d mark IV?) and Canon will be forced to use that AF points in the lower grade camera.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2011, 03:08:40 PM »
Or maybe there will be some point that AF points are too many (do you really want more AF points in 1d mark IV?) and Canon will be forced to use that AF points in the lower grade camera.

Is there such a thing as too many AF points?  Technically, I'm sure there's a limit on the density at which they can be packed onto an AF sensor chip.  But from a user standpoint, more is better, provided there's a way to limit the number that are user-selectable (which there is with the 45-point system, and Canon made that choice for 5D/5DII users where only 9 of the 15 points are selectable).  The reason more is better is that for moving subjects, more points provides more accurate tracking for the AI Servo system.
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steven63

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2011, 03:10:14 PM »
Hmm.  I'm not altogether convinced that Canon will abandon the 1D line and that assumption is pretty much what the rest of your question stands on.

That said, it seems as if the market is getting crowded and some streamlining is necessary - But their may be a method to Canon's madness.  I own the 7D and frankly, I considered upgrading to the 5Dmiii but after careful investigation I decided I wouldn't gain that much other than a few MPX and a full frame.  I love the 7Ds ability to control off-camera flashes - it caused me to buy another 580exii.  I love it's focusing abilities.  I love the weather sealing. I love everything about it and probably won't consider an upgrade until they come out with a 7Dii.

I guess my point is that the method to Canon's madness may be this: the pros would still need those bells and whistles of both the sports model and the studio version.  All others will be content with a 5D line that represents the prosumer version of the studio 1Ds and the 7D line that represents the prosumer version of the 1D sports line.

But what do I know?

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2011, 03:33:58 PM »
I've got a 7d, and frankly, i'd put up with less AF points if they were better spread out.

For anyone who doesn't know, they're in a diamond shaped around the centra, of course, but only take up maybe half the height and 2/3 to 3/4 of the width. there's a whole big border that has nothing.
I was taking some photos of birds diving at sea on the weekend. There's a good proportion that were out of focus (more to the point, focussed on the waves in the background) and the bird is still fuzzily in frame, but on the edge.
Give me less AF points, give me more, don't care, but put them closer to the borders.

Nikon has 51 AF points on the top 6 models i just clicked through on wikipedia (D3/s/x, D700, D300/s), and the D7000 has 39 points. I've never used one, so i can't comment on quality vs quantity, but if number is all we're talking about then they have little to no differentiation in their model numbers.


My 2c: The only way that the 7D2 is getting a new AF system is:
a) if the 1d5 and/or 1ds4 come out first, with >46-point system. Then the 45-point is 'old-tech' and can trickle down to the 'lesser' 7d2. (same way as the sensors trickled from 1ds3->5d2 and 7d->60d->600d->550d)
b) canon actually change their 'trickle-down' strategy they seem to have used all along, and more interestingly, they make something new 19<x<45-point for the 7d2 and give the 5d2 the 19-point from the 7d. (more fun, but less likely, trickle-down does have advantages for R&D costs and volume-savings...)
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2011, 03:56:03 PM »
I've got a 7d, and frankly, i'd put up with less AF points if they were better spread out.

For anyone who doesn't know, they're in a diamond shaped around the centra, of course, but only take up maybe half the height and 2/3 to 3/4 of the width. there's a whole big border that has nothing.

There are technical reasons for the limitation, but the limitation is real.  The 1DsIII's 45 AF points are no more spread out than the 9 selectable AF points on the 5DII, and if you look at the relative position in the frame, the AF points on the FF bodies are no more spread out than the AF points on the 7D.  Without delving into the details, the issue is that the constraints of the mirror box impose geometric restrictions on the size of the secondary mirror, which is what directs light down to the AF sensor, and also the fact that with many lenses, vignetting would impair AF points closer to the edge of the frame.  If you really need more coverage from the AF array, the 1D series (APS-H) offers a slightly greater relative coverage of AF points. 
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EYEONE

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 09:08:12 AM »
I've got a 7d, and frankly, i'd put up with less AF points if they were better spread out.

---

Nikon has 51 AF points on the top 6 models i just clicked through on wikipedia (D3/s/x, D700, D300/s), and the D7000 has 39 points. I've never used one, so i can't comment on quality vs quantity, but if number is all we're talking about then they have little to no differentiation in their model numbers.




Well, The Nikon D7000 and the D300s I believe, both have 39 AF points but of those only 15 are cross type. One of the things I love about the 7D is that all 19 are cross type. I'm ok with the number of AF points on the 7D. I've never found it limiting. However if they do increase the number I would prefer they maintain the density of the 19 and just add a layer around the outside of the diamond if possible. All cross type.
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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2011, 09:08:12 AM »

foobar

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2011, 12:48:56 PM »
Well, The Nikon D7000 and the D300s I believe, both have 39 AF points but of those only 15 are cross type. One of the things I love about the 7D is that all 19 are cross type. I'm ok with the number of AF points on the 7D. I've never found it limiting. However if they do increase the number I would prefer they maintain the density of the 19 and just add a layer around the outside of the diamond if possible. All cross type.
+1
Keep the densitiy, maybe add a few points for better spread, and keep it all cross-type.
If you come from a camera with line sensors at the outside (XXXD, 10D-30D, 5D, 5D2), you really appreciate the fact that the 7D's AF points are all cross type. The 7D's AF gives you the freedom to concentrate on composition without having to worry about using an AF point that might potentially not work for your subject.

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2011, 01:10:38 PM »
If Canon is doing away with the 1D line and there's a lot of talk of the 5D Mark III inheriting the 7D's autofocus, would it be unreasonable to guess that the 7D Mark II would pick up the 45-point system? If not, what would differentiate it (essentially other than frame rate and a smaller sensor) from the 5D Mark II? It seems like the 7D did to the 1D as what the 5Ds did to the 1Ds—cut into sales by providing a cheaper alternative for those who don't need all the bells and whistles of the 1D family. The only difference is, the 1D's have a worthless sensor size.

There is talk of merging the 1D and the 1Ds and making all of the 1D series cameras full frame.  This is not doing away with the 1D line. 

I don't quite believe it will happen, but we could see a 21mp 1D FF with 10 fps and a 1Ds FF with high MP and 4 fps. (not a rumor, just my conjecture)

Canon has never really made any large changes to a model, but incrementally added features.  I doubt if any changes to 7D AF other than small tweaks will happen.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2011, 01:47:37 PM »
I would prefer they maintain the density of the 19 and just add a layer around the outside of the diamond if possible.

Unfortunately, it's not possible.   :( 

Well, I suppose it might be possible, but it would require a major redesign of the way the mirror box in constructed, such that instead of rotating on a fixed hinge point, the hinge point itself would need to translate upward as the mirror moved.  A design like that, while maintaining a fast frame rate, would be quite challenging, to say the least. 
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EYEONE

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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 02:03:42 PM »
I would prefer they maintain the density of the 19 and just add a layer around the outside of the diamond if possible.

Unfortunately, it's not possible.   :( 

Well, I suppose it might be possible, but it would require a major redesign of the way the mirror box in constructed, such that instead of rotating on a fixed hinge point, the hinge point itself would need to translate upward as the mirror moved.  A design like that, while maintaining a fast frame rate, would be quite challenging, to say the least.

Well, as sad as it is I think that's ok. I like having 19, it's a good number. I feel like Nikon beats it's users over the head with too many autofocus points while Canon does the same with megapixels.
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Re: 7D Mark II Autofocus
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2011, 02:03:42 PM »