The Future of the 1Ds & 5D Lines [CR2]

[shOo]

Why canon can't for once just release a fast fullframe camera. Nikon done it years ago. If I need FF and fast frame rate, accurate AF I can't get that even if I buy the most expensive canon.

[axismundi]

I wonder about technology though, can you offer a 9fps+ capability in a 30+mp camera?

Well, I think a practical solution would be
a single 1D model, 30 MP, shooting 10 fps with e.g. 12 MP and e.g. 3 fps with the full 30 MP.
I think this would make all customer quite happy.

[mreco99]

For the first time, i am starting to think id rather get a 5d2
If i read correctly, suggestion is a 5d3 with no video for similar price as the 5d2, and there might be a 5d3 with enhanced video for more money.
Who knows, we'll see when its all announced.

I want basic video in my next camera, ive spent too long with the canon 450d and no video option to know that just sometimes it would be nice to have.

Im waiting for the 5d3 but im not paying a premium for enhanced video, and i wont be getting a FF camera without any video option.

in fact ive just remembered, im not tied to canon yet, i think i should check out what Nikon have to offer.

[macgregor mathers]

As a video guy who want a Full Frame video camera (5d3), I think it's best to split the the 5d3. Because one cannot really exist with the other, and have an ideal camera.

I 2nd that, to a degree.

Every pocket camera today has video capabilities, because most photographers want to take video clips as well. A 5D-stills camera would need to offer at least as much. Beyond that, I agree that pro video features should go to a separate camera.

[NXT1000]

i doubt canon will split 5d3 into video and non video.
no way i will believe it, until i see the press release.

[NormanBates]

* every DSLR they release from now on is going to have video, there's no point in disabling it, they don't save any money by doing that

* the video improvement I want most for the next generation of canon DSLRs, which is also the one that's most likely to happen, is a switch to a decent resampling algorithm (read: no more line-skipping, and therefore reasonable amounts of aliasing/moire; panasonic has done that already; canon should go there too, soon)

* the additional video improvements above that call not just for a split in a DSLR model, but for a completely different form factor: a real video camera; you can't get inbuilt ND filters, XLR inputs, and dedicated buttons, in a DSLR body; getting rid of the mirror and allowing for a bigger body will do the trick

* in any case, given how good the sony FS100 is, and given it sells for $5K, they can't go much higher than that in a DSLR form factor (yes, the sensor is bigger, but you also lose a lot of features by sticking to a DSLR body)

[NXT1000]

Splitting the “5″ series camera for stills and video has been asked for by a lot of still photographers who don’t care about video.

these people should be put in front of firing squad and shot.

[mreco99]

Splitting the “5″ series camera for stills and video has been asked for by a lot of still photographers who don’t care about video.

these people should be put in front of firing squad and shot.

save me a gun....

[dr croubie]

So here's my take on the situation:

currently:
1ds3 - ff, highest mp, decent fps, best af, best high iso, built like a tank w grip, f8 focussing.

1d4 - apsh, medium mp, highest fps, best af, best high iso, built like a tank w grip, f8 focussing.

5d2 - ff, highest mp, medium-low fps, decent af, best high iso, (weathersealed?), no grip, f5 focussing.

7d - apsc, medium-high mp, medium-high fps, medium-high af, decent high iso, weathersealed, no grip, f5 focussing

60d - apsc, medium-high mp, medium-low fps, medium af, generally reduced features of 7d.

550/600d - reduced features of 60d

1100d - My-First-Dslr.



so what if they merge the 1d & 1ds? and simultaneous with splitting the 5d lines?
i like the idea of:
1d5/1ds4, whatever it's called - ff, highest mp (maybe 30-40?), decent fps in ff mode, highest fps in apsh/apsc crop mode (don't nikons do this?), best af, best high iso, built like a tank w grip, f8 focussing, dual digic, best high iso.

3d - the "pro-video" version of the 5d3. fixed pellicle mirror, full time video af, raw video, (4k video??), maybe pushing the price tag of the 1d line, but well above the 5d3. rest of specs as 5d3 below, (dual digic?), best high iso.

5d3 - ff, high mp (30mp? depending how high the 1d goes), decent af (as current 7d, 19cross, or better, not as good as 1d5), lower fps than 7d, higher than 70d, f5 focussing, no grip, single digic, best high iso. video performance as 600d now, 1080@30fps, digital zoom, slowish video af as now.

7d2 - apsc, medium high mp (25ish?), ~7 fps, 2nd best af (same or better than 5d3), decent high iso (similar to 7d vs 5d2 performance).

70d and lower - cut-down versions of 7d2, with worse af/fps/specs & features accordingly. maybe keep the current 18mp sensor for now to boost sales of 7d2, depending on release order.


with this scenario, release dates? i'm still going for 1ds3-replacement, if it's called 1ds4 or what, being the next thing out. no way they'll bring out a 5d3 with the same sensor as the 1ds4 first. if we see a 5d3 first, then the 1ds4 is going to have much higher mp.

I'm definitely thinking that the most likely scenario will be 7d2/70d/650d all will share the same sensor and progressively reduced features. no way they'll bring out a 70d or 650d with >18mp before a 7d2. and it follows on from there, 7d2 trickles to a later 70d and later 650d (if 650d is before 70d, then it will have 18mp sensor and 70d will have the same as 7d2, or somewhere between 18mp and 7d2 sensor). It makes more economic sense to have the same sensor for lots of models, economies of scale etc.

we're almost at the limits of most lens' resolutions as it is (my 70-300 non-L worked fine on a 350d at release time, on my 7d it's just fuzzy. sold it to my sis and i'm buying the L version on the weekend). so we're not going to see the leaps and bounds of the sensor resolution we have recently.

my hope? add 1 or 2 bits of dynamic range for the 1d line, keep it the same mp as the 3/5d line just HDR. that'll get your pros buying them like they're going out of fashion...

[austinmaniac]

personally, i'd like to see a higher sync speed. it's what currently separates dslr and medium format. 1/250 just doesn't cut it for stopping action.

[lol]

If I were head of Canon going for a two model 5D3 approach, I'd make one photo-centric. Pretty much as we know the 5D2 but generally "improved" all round. It will include video in a similar way to the 5D2. The 5D3-V for lack of a better name would share the majority of the core electronics, but repackaged in a much more video friendly form factor, whatever that will be. It may or may not do stills too, but if so it would be very secondary.

[tomscott]

In my opinion anyone who is a serious professional videographer wont use a DSLR and will use a video camera from a professional range. I know you get the enhanced depth of field, with the EF system, but by the time you have bought the extra equipment like a shoulder harness and all the other stuff that makes a DSLR like a pro video camera you are spending nearly double what a pro video camera would cost. Not forgetting it has serious flaws like zooming etc

I think the video thing has got out of hand, especially for them to create two cameras, one for and one without!! Most stupid idea i have ever heard! Even with the advanced video features, will it be worth the price hike? And a DSLR in the line up in the £2000 without video... people see features as a bonus, removing would be a mistake. The DSLR is designed for stills not video, ergonomically and lens wise... there is no digital zoom. Its just a nice extra that people can use when needed. Yes it has been used in the pro scene with good effect but surely a new range of camera would be a better way of marketing this. With better ergonomic features put more towards video professionals and can use the EF system. Its a 50/50 opinion because still is really important but for a videographer maybe not but its the same the other way round its nice to have high quality stills from video... so...

I just dont think the DSLR market isthe right one to implement in on professionally! A new homologation camera type would make more sense. Leave the video on the DSLRs for people that want to use it but create a newer market that is based on the EF system but aimed more toward video.

In my opinion the 5D is a slow camera for a niche market, the cameras speed allows you to stop compose and think about what you are shooting just like a medium format film camera did in the day. Is a homologation model what people want, then i feel a new re-branded faster full frame camera would be better marketing than a 5D split. I think that it would confuse people as canons range already does, too many cameras with similar features. They really need to split the range and have a real reason for people to spend the extra cash. The difference between the 60D and the 7D is micro adjust, weather sealing and more points. But for the 50D owners it is a serious downgrade for the same price and the 7D doesnt add much (more MP and new AF on a 50D) and an extra £400!! its obserd, in my opinion the 7D is what the newer 50D should have been. Its a joke.

Pro
1D
3D (Fast full frame camera, new 1ds without the price tag and size. A suped up 7D say 22mp)
5D (Similar to now with the improvements noted AF 30mp etc)

Semi
7D (APC version of the 3D)
60D (better version of the amateur model)

Amateur
600D
1100D

My 2 cent, i love canon products but the direction they are going in their product planning, direction and brand awareness is becoming very poor. A real shake up needs to happen, but as features get better, technology becomes available and socially accepted as the norm it is harder to distinguish the range. Which is why i think a newer type of camera needs to come into being. Help distinguish the features and become more specialist towards the needs of users in the EF format.

[polpaulin]

I am waiting for a PRO 1Ds  , no AA filter , new sensor, no video,   watever the price but a PRO camera

[unfocused]

Canon has yet to directly monetize video capabilities in DSLRs.

What does that even mean? And, this is a CR2 Source? There's no "meat" to this rumor, just repeating things we've heard before with a little pseudo-business speak thrown in to make it sound authoritative.

Canon is selling a whole lot of DSLRs with video capability.  The cost of including video is minimal and it greatly expands their sales potential. In addition, it's added to their prestige and marketing (Look at all the publicity they got from one "House" episode). I would say they have "monetized" video capabilities pretty well so far.

 

[motorhead]

I wonder about technology though, can you offer a 9fps+ capability in a 30+mp camera?

Well, I think a practical solution would be
a single 1D model, 30 MP, shooting 10 fps with e.g. 12 MP and e.g. 3 fps with the full 30 MP.
I think this would make all customer quite happy.

It would not satisfy me and I suggest its shelf life would be very limited. 30MP was withdrawn by Canon if we are to believe the rumours because it was already yesterdays news.

And just to add to the video versus non video debate thats sprung up. I am a stills photographer and will never shoot video even if I'm forced to have it on the camera. I firmly believe that those who want video should buy a video camera designed for the purpose not con the rest of us into paying for something we don't want. And before anyone tells me (yet again) that its not costing me anything - Thats nonsense, we are all paying the R&D and production costs whether we like it or not as things are. Its about time the costs are born by those who want it.