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Author Topic: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III  (Read 6966 times)

ishdakuteb

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2012, 03:26:00 PM »
CRers... we are kinda off the topic and need to get back in order to get more improvement on our future gears  :P

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2012, 03:26:00 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2012, 03:30:26 PM »

Great question.  I've loved my 5D3, but there are a few niggly bits that could be addressed above and beyond the obvious better/faster/more DR stuff that everyone will certainly want:

  • Deeper button reconfiguration options - only some buttons can do certain things, this should be expanded
  • Rating photos should be recognized by vanilla handler programs like iPhoto (I know -- Apple could fix this, too)
  • Would love to see the electronic level (the lesser used in-viewfinder one) automatically toggle on when shooting vertically as I don't use a grip.  This is simple enough to enable as they already have accel/gyro support for separate horizontal and vertical AF point selection, right?
  • As I shoot a lot in the dark, the -3EV AF capability of the new 6D would be a nice pickup, but I am assuming that this is all hardware and off the table.  But here's hoping -- even with F/1.4 glass my 5D3's AF can hunt in very low light.
  • More useful auto ISO options for aperture, shutter speed, etc.  I like the thought of Auto ISO but feel a bit limited by what I can/can't set for acceptable boundaries.

Little stuff said, I love this camera.  I think the sensor is the only (even remotely) weak link of the 5D3.  DR would be my #1 improvement.

- A       

Zlatko

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2012, 03:34:31 PM »
Generally in parts costs for performance increase are not linear with the performance increase itself. a shutter that lasts 50% longer will cost more than 50% more to make as quality has to rise significantly. Lastly, as others have mentioned scale. iPads are sold by the millions and DSLRs are not pricing comes down with volume and usually efficiency can improve in manufacturing.
Excellent point about the shutter.  Cameras are not just computers or electronics; they are also mechanical.  Small improvements in shutter life, shutter lag time, mirror black-out time, autofocus acquisition and accuracy, etc., may have long development times, added material costs, added production costs, etc.  So improving a $100 part by just 50% may turn it into a $250 part.

And scale is a big factor.  This is partly why Leica cameras and lenses are so much more expensive.  They may make something like 50 cameras and 50 lenses per day (just a guesstimate).  All of their costs have to be recouped from a smaller batch of products.  Canon obviously has much higher production volume than Leica, even for expensive items like the 5D3 and 1DX, but not nearly on the scale of the iPad or iPhone.

Well apple is just an example. What I mean is Electronics in general will have improvements while keeping the price relatively steady or even declining.  I'm talking about time in relation to technology. If the 5D2 and 5D3 were released in the same time periord, I would totally understand the price difference. But we're talking about 4 years of techology advancements! If this trend continues, we are looking at the 5D4 for over $4k and the 5D5 for about $5K!

There is no trend.  The 5D was $3,300.  The 5D2 was $2,700.  The 5D3 was $3,500 (at introduction) and is $3,300 right now, and some sellers have offered it for under $3000.  The 5D2 was a modest improvement over the original 5D, and came in at a lower price.  While we were happy with the lower price, it seemed that many complained that it wasn't enough of an improvement over the original 5D.  More resolution, but same old autofocus, same old sluggishness, etc.  So Canon built the 5D3, executing on a long list of requested improvements and making a very noticeably upgraded product.

But it could have been Priced at $2600  :P
But it will be.  Just give it time.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 03:36:13 PM by Zlatko »

ishdakuteb

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2012, 03:52:11 PM »
because of this?  do we have economist in house?  sorry, the crowd is dragging me off the topic :P

JR

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2012, 03:59:16 PM »
I would pick more DR hands down. (aka better sensors)
1DX, 24mm f1.4L II, 35mm f1.4L, 50mm f1.2L, 85mm f1.2L II, 135mm f2L, 24-70mm f2.8L II, 70-200mm f2.8L IS II :  D800, D4, and a whole bunch of Nikon lenses

K-amps

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #20 on: November 08, 2012, 04:03:28 PM »
But it will be.  Just give it time.

Yes but no use giving the patient medication 12 hours after he is dead...   unless you are ok with living with 3 year old tech...
« Last Edit: November 08, 2012, 04:41:36 PM by K-amps »
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krjc

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2012, 04:17:37 PM »
What was the original sales price of the 5D2 adjusted for inflation. I don't think there is much of a difference with the 5D3. We live in a market economy nobody forces you to buy anything. Complaining here doesn't do squat.

I bought a 5D3 and have been enjoying it immensely. It has given me many hours of enjoyment along with getting some great photos I couldn't of gotten with my 7D. Well worth every penny.

If I had an equivalent Nikon I'm sure I would be almost as happy. If I was heavy into landscapes sure the 800 is better, but I'm into sports, and low light, so I have the camera for me.
Now-> Cameras: 7D, 5D3, T4i, G12 Lens: 24-105, 10-22 EFS, 17-55EFS, 50 1.4, 100 2.8 macro IS, 70-200 2.8IS II, 100-400, TC 2 III, MP-E 65mm f/2.8 1-5x, 16-35 F4 L

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #21 on: November 08, 2012, 04:17:37 PM »

ishdakuteb

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #22 on: November 08, 2012, 04:30:38 PM »
forgot to post this one up also... more information to compare...


NormanBates

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #23 on: November 08, 2012, 04:56:24 PM »
Forget about inflation, exchange rates, and all that. Those are all excuses. The 5D3 doesn't have to compete with a 5D2 released at $2700 4 years ago. It has to compete with the D800, which has a much better sensor and sells for $3000.

ishdakuteb

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #24 on: November 08, 2012, 05:12:37 PM »
Forget about inflation, exchange rates, and all that. Those are all excuses. The 5D3 doesn't have to compete with a 5D2 released at $2700 4 years ago. It has to compete with the D800, which has a much better sensor and sells for $3000.

now, i am interested in your comparision about 5d mark III and nikon d800.  please help me to break down so that i can learn about:

1. 5d mark iii does not complete what from upgrading 5d mark ii
2. d800 complete what from upgrading d700?

please give little more details (and keep in mind that you are speaking for the whole)...

Zlatko

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2012, 05:30:47 PM »
Forget about inflation, exchange rates, and all that. Those are all excuses. The 5D3 doesn't have to compete with a 5D2 released at $2700 4 years ago. It has to compete with the D800, which has a much better sensor and sells for $3000.
Right, it does have to compete against the D800, which was priced lower at introduction.  Happily, the 5D3 price is coming down.

However, the question of a "better sensor" depends on the intended use and the preferences of the user.  I prefer Canon color for photos of people, so the 5D3 has the better sensor for me.  If I were a landscape photographer, I'd probably favor the D800 sensor. 

And other important factors come into the equation.  Without a smaller Raw file format and without a super-quiet shutter mode and without Canon ergonomics and certain Canon lenses and the Canon radio-controlled flash, the D800 is less attractive for me, and therefor less competitive even at a lower price.  For these reasons, the 5D3 competes very well for some photographers, whether priced the same as the D800 or higher.  It comes down to the needs and preferences of the photographer. 

So there are multiple factors, some of which have greater importance to certain photographers; DR is just one of them.  Back when Nikon didn't offer a full-frame camera or any camera with excellent high ISO performance, some photographers still preferred Nikon because other factors were more important to them.  This is why reducing camera competitiveness to just one or two factors and a price doesn't work.

There are obviously many photographers for whom the D800 will be a better fit and likewise many for whom the 5D3 will be a better fit, notwithstanding any price differences.  It's apparent that Canon and Nikon intentionally design at least some of their products with somewhat different buyers in mind (with a good deal of overlap, of course) — this way they don't have to compete strictly on price.

pwp

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #26 on: November 08, 2012, 07:19:25 PM »
How about "A reasonable price"?  ::)

Plenty of people have picked them up brand new for under $3k and as low as $2700-$2800, I think that's incredibly reasonable, about the same as the 5D2 was.  I paid almost $3800 for mine after tax and I still think it's a great camera, although I wish it hadn't dropped in price that quickly.

I think the 5D3 is great value. I paid $3500 in the full expectation that a few months later the price would be under $3000 but that's a few months without this brilliant camera. Hell, it's about the same price as I paid for my 5D Classic in late 2005. It's way less than the $14,500 I paid for the original 1Ds in 2003. From a business viewpoint the ROI period is shrinking all the time. And each new generation of camera smashes the previous ones in almost all respects.

Get real! There's little to complain about.

-PW

pwp

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2012, 07:24:16 PM »
There was one missing option in the list of questions. That is the ability to see constantly illuminated red AF points instead of the miserable, frequently camouflaged, often invisible tiny black AF points.

-PW

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #27 on: November 08, 2012, 07:24:16 PM »

robbymack

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2012, 07:38:05 PM »
Who knew this would degrade into the 5diii d800 flame war. I honestly don't think they are competitors in anything other than relative price point. Actually I love the 5diii would have paid more for it because I see it as a Nikon d4 at half the price. So canon made in my opinion the best event/all around ff camera. Nikon on the other has made the best 35mm landscape camera that approaches Mf quality. Different strokes for different folks. If I was an event shooter with Nikon I would laugh at the idea of switching to the d800, if I was a landscaper I'd consider it unless of course I had a couple of TS E lenses then I'd be happy with any canon body.

Zlatko

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2012, 08:26:37 PM »
There was one missing option in the list of questions. That is the ability to see constantly illuminated red AF points instead of the miserable, frequently camouflaged, often invisible tiny black AF points.

-PW
I agree!  That's one detail I wish they would improve/fix about the 5D3.  It is strange that this was overlooked.

Who knew this would degrade into the 5diii d800 flame war. I honestly don't think they are competitors in anything other than relative price point. Actually I love the 5diii would have paid more for it because I see it as a Nikon d4 at half the price. So canon made in my opinion the best event/all around ff camera. Nikon on the other has made the best 35mm landscape camera that approaches Mf quality. Different strokes for different folks. If I was an event shooter with Nikon I would laugh at the idea of switching to the d800, if I was a landscaper I'd consider it unless of course I had a couple of TS E lenses then I'd be happy with any canon body.
Very good points!  They have different strengths, so they don't compete strictly on price.

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Re: Canon Surveys for 5D Mark III
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2012, 08:26:37 PM »