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Author Topic: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!  (Read 12911 times)

Gothmoth

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 07:56:02 AM »
In the latest rumour it was mentioned that canon sell hardly any EOS 1 bodies relative to the 5D II.  This is simply because Canon haven't brought out a quality EOS 1 full frame camera for many years!  If the 1D IV had have been full frame then the story would have been very different!!!

the VW group can hardly sell a porsche compared to VW golfs.
still VW/porsche will not stop making GT3´s.....

use your brain luke....

« Last Edit: June 02, 2011, 08:02:46 AM by Gothmoth »

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #15 on: June 02, 2011, 07:56:02 AM »

motorhead

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #16 on: June 02, 2011, 08:15:11 AM »
While it must be true that very few 1D and 1Ds bodies are sold compared to the "prosumer" bodies and below, the range must have a flagship to attract media attention and buyers.

I remember the electricity utility I spent most of my life working for always offered 3 versions of everything. The profit margin was always highest on the mid-range item and the customers logic ran like this "We are not rich, so we will not buy the most expensive shower unit, but nor are we cheapskates so we will avoid the cheap and nasty one. Lets go for the middle one dearest"

It worked like that 19 times out of 20. We humans are more predictable than perhaps we would like to think.

Hence the 1Ds at the top and whatever body now occupies the bottom end. Your average punter will ignore both and choose from the rest.

kubelik

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #17 on: June 02, 2011, 09:07:58 AM »
In the latest rumour it was mentioned that canon sell hardly any EOS 1 bodies relative to the 5D II.  This is simply because Canon haven't brought out a quality EOS 1 full frame camera for many years!  If the 1D IV had have been full frame then the story would have been very different!!!

one could also point out that "canon sell hardly any EOS 5DII bodies relative to the Rebel lineup" ... does that mean the 5DII should really be an APS-C sensor in a plastic body? 

as motorhead states, they are two totally different products aimed at totally different markets.

macfly

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #18 on: June 02, 2011, 09:45:12 AM »
I'll add again that I think Canon suprised themselves with the 5D, it was a succes way beyond expectation, and an absolute game changer. However the thing that made it a runaway success is its video capability. It is my bet that making the 5D Mklll a 5k video image machine will be at the core of its upgrade to compete with Red, Panasonic etc, all doable with a 28mp chip.

To differentiate the 1Ds line it will want to be a 40mp workhorse, the the idiot who started this thread ragging on has no idea what hes talking about. The 1Ds Mklll is a stunning camera, I have had mine since the week it came out, and shot thousands of jobs, and loads of personal pictures with it. It has been dropped, rained on, covered in sand in many a windstorm, bounced around in a rally car, soaked in spray at the beach and it just keeps on going.

It is by far and away the best camera I have ever used, and I take my best pictures with it. The only down side is I often want to blow those pictures up bigger than I can because I hit the quality ceiling. If it was a 40mp camera I doubt I'd be looking to upgrade it, but at just 21mp I keep hitting its limits, which is why I'm desparate for a real upgrade.

awinphoto

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #19 on: June 02, 2011, 11:07:12 AM »
I might as well throw in my 2 cents being in the professional circle... There are different groups of "professional" photographers... The people who has been in the market for years and has a want/need for large cameras such as the 1Ds and can justify it on a daily basis, and professionals who are happy where they are and while they would love to have the accounts and budget to afford the best, they have to make due with what they got.  I personally fall in the second range where I'm not making the $$ i could in other areas and if I had this and that, however at this stage in the game, my wife would kill me if I plunked down $4000-7000 down on a 1d or 1ds... However the 7D/5D are more in my budget so I make due.  Believe it or not, the groups of people who can afford the 1d series cameras are small which high potential profit margins... Newspaper agencies, advertising agencies, top tier photographers, etc... and to be honest, like the rich who can afford high end cars, they are built better so they typically last longer and owners hang on to them longer than people who buy fords or hyundais or kias... You buy a 1d series and while it costs a lot more, they are built like tanks, have excellent ergonomics and to be honest, unless you need the latest and greatest... There are several pro's getting along just fine with older 1d series cameras because they dont NEED to upgrade as quickly unless they wear out their camera or are going broke.  Typically if you can afford the 1d cameras you usually have a large enough investment in canon and likewise with nikons D3/4 series cameras and their investment in Nikons that I dont see much of a flux in that top tier.  However it is the mid range pro's 7Ds,5Ds,D300's,D700's where you see all the movement and why these cameras sell so quickly vs the top cameras. 

If Canon really wanted the 1D's to fly off the shelves they would market them to the mid range to amateur photographers and price accordingly, however they dont.  They know what market share they are going after with that range and they are comfortable marketing to those photographers. 

Lastly, dont forget the economy right now... few people can justify spending that money on such an expensive camera... Even agencies are tightening their belts and holding off upgrades, so I wouldn't start getting paranoid just yet. 
Canon 5d III, Canon 24-105L, Canon 17-40L, Canon 70-200 F4L, Canon 100L 2.8, 430EX 2's and a lot of bumps along the road to get to where I am.

pwp

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #20 on: June 02, 2011, 11:23:43 PM »
Video isn't an important area for me and if it was I'd get a dedicated video camera.

I love it when people make statements like this. You're not a videographer, yet you feel compelled to make summary judgement on the 5D2's video capabilities?

Point taken. My video experience closely approximates zero. I know the video files a 5DII delivers are spectacular quality with a unique look.

Paul Wright

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 01:03:34 AM »
I remember the electricity utility I spent most of my life working for always offered 3 versions of everything. The profit margin was always highest on the mid-range item and the customers logic ran like this "We are not rich, so we will not buy the most expensive shower unit, but nor are we cheapskates so we will avoid the cheap and nasty one. Lets go for the middle one dearest"

Reminds me of an article I just read in a magazine a week ago:
A shop sold only one breadmaker, for $250. They introduced a new 'deluxe' model for $450. They hardly sold any of the deluxe model, but sales of the original model doubled.


Also, noone's mentioning lenses. How many 1d/s, or even 5/7d owners are there with only one lens? Sell an 1100d with an 18-55 and they've sold 1 body and 1 lens. Sell a 1d and they've sold maybe 4 or more high-markup L lenses as well...
Too much gear, too little space.
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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2011, 01:03:34 AM »

Shamus1

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2011, 01:26:14 AM »
I shoot professional dance and primarily use a 1DMkIV, DMkIII & 5DMkII, altho I have a 7D, 5D & 50D available.  The 5DMkII is a wonderful body, but my first choice will always be one of my 1D series bodies.  I am holding my breath when I hear of a possible merge of the 1Ds & 1D as that will shoot the price up  :-[   Yes FF is great, but unless you consistently use a 1.3x body, you'll see some advantages.  Just an opinion.

aldvan

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2011, 02:24:20 AM »
The market always rewards the top of range. That doesn't mean biggest numbers, but biggest profits. As anybody knows, it's easier to sell one Aston Martin than thirty Ford Focus, since always there will be a rich man for wich the expenditure for any item is marginal relative to his wealth, while for the average customer/user every expenditure is affected by personal and general situations. Furthemore, for many pros, the tools of their job are a status symbol very important to the eyes of their customers. By the way, electronic world is quite different from the mechanical one. When you bought in the past an Hasselblad, you could be sure that the next fundamental step will be made after ten-twenty years, now you can see doubling resolution in two years and, although everybody is ready to snobbishly affirm on a forum that this is not important for him, everybody knows how is important to have two (good) pixels instead of one... So if your investment is not marginal compared to the profit you get from it, or the expenditure is not marginal relatively your wealth, spending more the double of a 5D MkII on a 1Ds is not so easy if you think that in two-three years its features will be definitely surpassed by the new one. Old 1D features can be very good, but a 10Mp image can't compete with a 20Mp one, specially in top class, where Canon or Nikon don't trick with numbers...
« Last Edit: June 03, 2011, 02:26:33 AM by aldvan »

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2011, 06:34:15 PM »
There aren't many EOS-1 bodies being sold now because everybody's moved away from film.

;)

macgregor mathers

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #25 on: June 05, 2011, 05:52:02 AM »
While it must be true that very few 1D and 1Ds bodies are sold compared to the "prosumer" bodies and below, the range must have a flagship to attract media attention and buyers.

I remember the electricity utility I spent most of my life working for always offered 3 versions of everything. The profit margin was always highest on the mid-range item and the customers logic ran like this "We are not rich, so we will not buy the most expensive shower unit, but nor are we cheapskates so we will avoid the cheap and nasty one. Lets go for the middle one dearest"

It worked like that 19 times out of 20. We humans are more predictable than perhaps we would like to think.

Hence the 1Ds at the top and whatever body now occupies the bottom end. Your average punter will ignore both and choose from the rest.

There's a book called Predictably Irrational, which says similar things. E.g. a restaurant added a new dish which was the most expensive on the menu, and profits went up. The reason was not that the new dish sold well, but because the 2nd most expensive dish (which was, previously, the most expensive on the menu) sold a lot better.

motorhead

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #26 on: June 05, 2011, 09:48:29 AM »

"There's a book called Predictably Irrational, which says similar things. E.g. a restaurant added a new dish which was the most expensive on the menu, and profits went up. The reason was not that the new dish sold well, but because the 2nd most expensive dish (which was, previously, the most expensive on the menu) sold a lot better".

Very many thanks for that. I have read a quick review of the book on wikipedia and it sounds fascinating. The strangeness of some human behavior is intriguing , trust sales experts to have figured out how best to use that to manipulate us into parting with cash. 





Steve Todd

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2011, 11:14:34 AM »
I don't know what the original intent was for this post?  There are many of these Pro bodies in the hands of working Pros and those that have the ability to afford them, than the average photog would imagine.  Just watch any major news or sporting event and you will see more 1D/1Ds cameras than any other model.  Why is that...because they (Pros) demand the best performance at any price.  However, how many 1D/1Ds bodies are sold really doesn't matter much to me or anyone else I know in the photo business, as long as there's enough of them made to go around!  I have shot motor sports since the 1970s with film SLRs and manual focus lenses, so I really appreciate what Canon has accomplished with the EOS-1 and EOS-1D/Ds series of cameras and EF lenses. There simply is not anything else out there that does what the 1D/Ds cameras do or do it as well, at this time.  Each time an updated model is released, many folks jump on it, as newer tech often results in better/sharper images.  I'm sure Canon loves this.  However, many pros and others too, keep their previous models until they are all used-up or are missing shots they might have "nailed" with newer equipment.  And I guess there are some that "just have to have the newest and greatest models of anything!"  Sure, we would all love it if the prices were lower...but that is just not going to happen in today's
market.  OBTW, my 5D, 5D Mk II and 7D don't get much use, as my 1D Mk IVs do it all and do it better!  I've never been disappointed with the 1.3 crop of the 1D4 or felt it necessary to use a FF model instead. Bottom line (really), you can't fairly compare non-pro body sales (including the great 5D/5D Mk II) with the pro models, different needs/markets!   
 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2011, 01:12:03 PM by Steve Todd »
EOS-1D X, 1D4, 5D2, 5D, EOS-1V, 1n, and a bunch of lenses.

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #27 on: June 05, 2011, 11:14:34 AM »

Edwin Herdman

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #28 on: June 05, 2011, 10:42:25 PM »
I remember the electricity utility I spent most of my life working for always offered 3 versions of everything. The profit margin was always highest on the mid-range item and the customers logic ran like this "We are not rich, so we will not buy the most expensive shower unit, but nor are we cheapskates so we will avoid the cheap and nasty one. Lets go for the middle one dearest"
Neat story (and thanks to macgregor mathers as well), though I will say that I don't think this specific reasoning applies here.  The EOS-1 doesn't make the 5D Mark II look cheaper.  Rather it makes Canon look better.  I know for sure that when I started looking at Canon DSLRs I was very interested in just starting off running and adding higher quality components as time (and hopefully funds) allowed.  Obviously most people get locked in with the consumer zooms that way.

I think the routine is: Step one, get cheap camera body + good cheap lenses -> Step two, add good expensive lenses -> Step three, add good camera body.  I think that Canon's market positioning of the EOS-1 is being disturbed by the success of lower-level offerings, including their own (as macfly said).  That said, I don't think the EOS-1 market is so large that they will be able to place "cost reduced" versions, e.g. with slower max shutter speeds or other features cut out, alongside the top of the line.  Between the 5D Mark II and the EOS-1 there may be room for another camera, but it just as likely might be a 5D Mark II repositioned higher in the same way the 7D was (of course, a 5D Mark II with 7D-like autofocus accuracy and features would infringe more on the EOS-1 territory, but again the EOS-1 is supposed to be a best offering).

@ Steve Todd:  I also think that a lot of those EOS-1 cameras seen at sporting events travel around quite a bit.

Don12x20

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2011, 06:58:41 PM »
Actually, the 1DMkIV has been sold out each time a new shipment arrives from Japan.

I had to wait a considerably time for my second 1DMkIV body (on a long waiting list from January through May), so I was also watching the availability at B&H and Adorama. They got quite a number of small shipments since January but each time they sell out. They're sold out again (unlike the 7D, 5D2, and other bodies which seem to have high availability). 

So comments about poor sales seem contradictory to reality at the dealers.  (although we can all argue that maybe Canon should be making more!)

For wildlife photography, including birds in flight, they are outstanding bodies. 

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Re: Very few EOS 1 bodies sold - wonder why!!
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2011, 06:58:41 PM »