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Author Topic: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?  (Read 35158 times)

RLPhoto

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2012, 02:27:24 PM »
If you don't like canon, Well Shoot Nikon.

If you Don't like Nikon, Well shoot pentax.

If you don't like pentax, Well Shoot sony.

If you don't like Sony, Err... Shoot Canon?

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2012, 02:27:24 PM »

jukka

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2012, 02:32:53 PM »
Should they rather focus on the point and shoot consumer market and leave the high end stuff to professionals?

That would surely be one-way a ticket to the graveyard, since the competition from mobile phones is steadily eliminating the entire consumer P&S market.

....they are going to continue losing market share to Nikon in my opinion.

So, you're saying that Nikon is going to continue their trend of gaining market share from Canon.  A trend that has lasted for exactly the one most recent quarter of the last four years.  Okay-dokay, we'll see...

I wonder where you get your figures from, when it comes to sports photographers  there has been a shift to  Nikon since the first D3 was introduced  here in Europe and Canon had problems with theirs sub mirrors in 1dmk3. Nikons selling was increasing with 24% this year if I recall  it right

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« Last Edit: November 12, 2012, 02:34:45 PM by jukka »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2012, 02:38:44 PM »
I wonder where you get your figures from

Canon and Nikon annual/quarterly reports, published on the Investor Relations pages of their corporate websites (pretty much every publicly-held company reports such data).
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dafrank

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2012, 02:49:06 PM »
I was going to write a beautifully crafted medium length reply with reasoning so brilliant and persuasive that even the most pessimistic of complainers and Sonikon-centric leaners would instantly put away their fears and negativity. But then, out of the blue, a piece of the gosh-darned sky fell through my roof, landed on my desk and injured my typing finger.

So, having to make this short: don't be so down, don't simply frown, go out and take a picture of that great big shiny world out there. Canon, just like the weather, will surely change, and soon the lovers of other brands will be bemoaning their terrible fate. And, in any case, it's all a silly camera chimera, signifying nothing more than the anxiety of the times manifest in a new world-wide team sport - consumer product technical development gaming, set in offical international leagues with avid fanclub members voicing their opinion about, and concern with, being "left behind" all the time and everywhere.

As to the future, only the Oracles of Sparta really know and they won't tell us a thing without some very old drachmae and a really developed set of abs.

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David
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Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2012, 02:54:53 PM »
A thoughtful analysis of sales and profits by quarter over the past 4 or 5 years might be some actual data that would support such a theory.
Just stating a unsupported opinion as fact is not very impressive and leavs a trollish taste in my mouth. :)

Daniel Flather

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2012, 03:29:19 PM »
Just stating a unsupported opinion as fact is not very impressive and leavs a trollish taste in my mouth. :)

Unsupported opinion as fact is acceptable, 47% of people are aware of this and accept it.

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aznable

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2012, 03:51:10 PM »
http://www.engadget.com/2012/10/25/canon-announces-q3-2012-results-operating-profit-drops-by-42-pe/


nikon got a similar drop in the first six months of the FY...the profit in 6 months are 66% of canon  profits in the quarter

first quarter of nikon

Three months ended June 30, 2012
259,431 5.6
23,368 (36.7)
23,403 (38.0)
15,770 (48.6)

profits dropped by 48.6%

six months of FY
First Half ended September 30, 2012
497,243 2.2
37,103 (39.3)
39,524 (39.3)
32,022 (36.5)

in usd the net income is 402.930.000 in six months

profits for canon's terrible quarter are 630.875.000

another strong quarter of nikon , and in 9 months they will catch the terrible quarter of canon
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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2012, 03:51:10 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2012, 03:52:48 PM »
Just stating a unsupported opinion as fact is not very impressive and leavs a trollish taste in my mouth. :)

Unsupported opinion as fact is acceptable, 47% of people are aware of this and accept it.
Well, there do seem to be plenty who believe that way.  I guess that having worked for now Ford CEO Allen Mulally, I was brainwashed into being a data driven manager ;)

kdsand

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2012, 04:18:49 PM »
ah
1st off , people jump to fast. We know canon & nikon leap frog or as least pace each other. For a pro an edge in a given year might be crucial but not so much for the rest of us.
2nd what's up with having an issue with firmware / updates? That seem like a non issue to me, i like updates.
Canon does have their head stuck in the sand in some irritating ways like caps & hoods but its getting better.
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kdsand

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2012, 04:34:42 PM »
My concern is the rate at which the local photo community is switching to Nikon. With profitability already down Canon is yielding significant market share to innovative and high quality Nikon products and that means less money, also for R&D, resulting in less capable kit, resulting in less sales, resulting in less money…..

Yes right, as the majority of Canon users have fullframe cameras and lots of L lenses...

Ur probably in the top <5% of users with ur gear. 5 Bodies and 16 L lenses u say?

...

Sorry its crying on a VERY high level.

Im running around with mostly old manual focus m42 lenses on my (guess in ur view) "lousy aps-c 1100d eos" cuz i just cant afford anything better. For me it wasnt cheap tough still.  If you so unhappy with ur announced-dead canon gear i surely take some of it for free. I think my whole apartement interior isnt even worth enough to buy _one_ L lens.
And anyway if ur that wealthy why dont u just get a Nikon body with a tele lens so u can use it on ur safaris? For the rest u can perhaps keep your down-the-graveyard-spiral canon gear.

sorry im a bit angry and feel so poor now T_T

I feel your pain. Especially when it sounds like a weekend warrior with tens of thousands of dollar in toys.
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dr croubie

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2012, 04:57:26 PM »
(vintage Leitz primes for the Leica-R mount: awesome glass, real cheap...)

Where the hell are you getting Leica R primes "real cheap". They're some of the most expensive per age lenses anywhere (eclipsed only by Leica M glass). If you've got a source, I'd love a 19mm for less than $700 please.
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gmrza

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2012, 05:01:21 PM »
Should they rather focus on the point and shoot consumer market and leave the high end stuff to professionals?

That would surely be one-way a ticket to the graveyard, since the competition from mobile phones is steadily eliminating the entire consumer P&S market.

....they are going to continue losing market share to Nikon in my opinion.

So, you're saying that Nikon is going to continue their trend of gaining market share from Canon.  A trend that has lasted for exactly the one most recent quarter of the last four years.  Okay-dokay, we'll see...

Canon will also be acutely aware of any gains Nikon makes.  For instance, the D3s certainly had an advantage over the 1DmkIV.  By all of the accounts I have seen, the 1Dx and D4 seem to be close enough to each other that any difference is academic.

Canon has certainly jumped ahead in the flash department with the 600-EX-RT and ST-E3.  Nikon does not have anything like that yet. (It is a matter of time, I believe.)

Nikon still has not caught up in terms of the depth and breadth of lens selection Canon has.

Either way, competition is good, and innovation from Nikon will push Canon - and vice versa.  I doubt that anyone would be making a mistake right now choosing either Canon or Nikon.  Both of them make their slip-ups, but on average, both are putting some pretty damn awesome products into the market. - The choice probably really comes down to personal preference.

The sad thing in this market is that, if you want a full frame DSLR, there are only two games in town.  Everybody else has left the room and only Canon and Nikon are playing.  That is the real tragedy of the market today.  A serious third player (and Sony  really doesn't count right now) would make a big difference, and keep Canon and Nikon on their toes.
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Daniel Flather

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2012, 05:35:25 PM »
Just stating a unsupported opinion as fact is not very impressive and leavs a trollish taste in my mouth. :)

Unsupported opinion as fact is acceptable, 47% of people are aware of this and accept it.
Well, there do seem to be plenty who believe that way.  I guess that having worked for now Ford CEO Allen Mulally, I was brainwashed into being a data driven manager ;)

:P
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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2012, 05:35:25 PM »

NormanBates

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2012, 05:38:58 PM »
(vintage Leitz primes for the Leica-R mount: awesome glass, real cheap...)

Where the hell are you getting Leica R primes "real cheap". They're some of the most expensive per age lenses anywhere (eclipsed only by Leica M glass). If you've got a source, I'd love a 19mm for less than $700 please.

$400 to $800 for a such a nice lens is "real cheap" to me: my 35mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.4 and 90mm f/2.8 are outstanding lenses, probably better than anything Canon has to offer at at least twice the price (of course, Canon glass would have AF... but then again, it wouldn't work on a Nikon, Sony, Pentax, etc).

OTOH, I'm not sure the 19mm will be THAT nice. In fact I didn't even get the 24mm or 28mm: wide angles have improved a lot with computer design, old ones are usually way too soft in the corners.

Kernuak

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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 05:39:58 PM »
he now shoots Canon 

His gear list is all Nikon, save for the G12.

Maybe he is too busy actually taking world class images to update his gear list! Maybe, considering the furor over the 1D MkIII AF and his very public move to Nikon, he is keeping a major gear switch low key this time, but I have seen him shooting with the 1Dx.
He was certainly very public in his criticism of Canon cameras after his switch and would take every opportunity to joke about how bad they were in his talks, so I can see why he wouldn't want to shout too much this time. Incidentally, I spoke to someone else recently who said that since he reviewed the 1D X and then had it again for a second trial, Andy won't shoot with anything else. There have also been other Nikon shooters (including those who never used Canon) who have been considering switching (at least according to what they say on the web) since the 1D X and D4 were released. On the other side, someone that Andy was and is inspired by, Laurie Campbell, is still a committed Nikon shooter. Laurie has shot Nikon since the days of film, but he is also only interested in the right tools for him and not relatively minor technological advances.
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Re: Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?
« Reply #29 on: November 12, 2012, 05:39:58 PM »