Has Canon entered the Graveyard Spiral?

[candyman]

I don't want to get all emotional here, but just to emphasize my other post, there are people who have other concerns than something about Canon (that I can't really remember) the OP mentioned. I took this pictures last Sunday on a morning walk.

I hope you did more than just taking the pictures

[AprilForever]

Between the wife and myself we have 5 Canon bodies and 18 lenses of which only the 15mm fish eye and an old 100 macro are not L glass, with 7 series 2 lenses, so there is a sizable investment in Canon kit.

But the dissatisfaction with Canon’s tardiness is steadily mounting.

On a recent leopard safari the Nikon D4 crowd simply ran away with shots compared to the best our 1D Mk4s could deliver. We are not only talking sensor performance, although we lived like lepers with only ISO 1600 max, the most frustrating feature is that the fitting of a flash to the 1D Mk4 forces Auto ISO to fix at 400. Damn nuisance if you are doing night work, want to work Manual at ISO 1600 with a fill flash and the clever Canon firmware decides that it is time to override your settings.  The 1DX has the same problem  feature. This could explain why 7 out of the 10 photographers that joined the leopard safari shot Nikon.

Then there is the long wait for the release of partially sorted equipment.

I waited almost 2 years for the 24-70 Mk II lens. The 200-400 lens, as staple for wildlife shooting in the Nikon stable, is yet nowhere in sight. Would also love a 14-24 for landscape work….

All recently released bodies had significant problems and required post release upgrades and firmware replacement.

A lot of noise being made about the 1DX, probably the best copy of a Nikon 3D that Canon ever produced, and is probably marginally better than the D3, I seems a capable camera but only if compared to the previous Nikon model. It is the probably the very best Canon camera but that is a bit like being the most beautiful girl at an all-male party.

IMHO it seems that the constant release of superior Nikon products is forcing Canon’s hand. Canon has since the release of the D300 been in catch up mode and are being forced to announce products that are still on the drawing board, and then have to rush half-baked stuff to market, at prices that exceed the Nikon range.
Has Canon fallen terminally behind?

My concern is the rate at which the local photo community is switching to Nikon. With profitability already down Canon is yielding significant market share to innovative and high quality Nikon products and that means less money, also for R&D, resulting in less capable kit, resulting in less sales, resulting in less money…..

Should they rather focus on the point and shoot consumer market and leave the high end stuff to professionals?

Remember the D800 autofocus problems? Read Thom Hogan's blog...

[distant.star]

.
With thoughts of the approaching Thanksgiving holiday here in the U.S. (unfortunately too many thoughts of "Black Friday" sales), it's nice to see this thread take a turn toward appreciating what we have. While some people have very little, others have had everything taken from them.

I was in Camden, NJ yesterday where 58 people have been murdered so far this year. Given total population, that would be as if nearly 6000 people had been murdered in New York City. An activist group has planted crosses in front of Camden City Hall symbolizing these deaths -- people for whom a D800 or a 1Dx no longer mean anything.

[Maui5150]

Between the wife and myself we have 5 Canon bodies and 18 lenses of which only the 15mm fish eye and an old 100 macro are not L glass, with 7 series 2 lenses, so there is a sizable investment in Canon kit.
...

Lets see the Nikon crap capture this image at ISO 25K from a helicopter.



Sounds to me most of the better shooter just happened to be using Nikon

[Chuck Alaimo]

i do so love the hyperbole here on this forum at times.  The OP and many of the comments leands me to post this from SNL -

http://youtu.be/ybDKfGEw4aU
	Small | Large

yup, the one where gear heads complaining about the iphone5 are confronted with the peasant laborers from china who make it. 

Shall I play the violin for you?  You have "5 Canon bodies and 18 lenses of which only the 15mm fish eye and an old 100 macro are not L glass, with 7 series 2 lenses, so there is a sizable investment in Canon kit."   WTF???  I guess you want your camera to sponge bathe you and and make you breakfast too?   " although we lived like lepers with only ISO 1600 max, the most frustrating feature is that the fitting of a flash to the 1D Mk4 forces Auto ISO to fix at 400."  How does someone buy 5 canon bodies and not read the manual for even 1 of them?  The last time I was bound to ISO 1600 was on my first DSLR, my XSI.  The 1dmk4 held it's own really well at high ISO's above 3200, one of the best low light cam's in canons lineup until the mk3 and 1dx came out.

I'm sorry, this is soooo....I've got 1st world problems that it makes me kind of sick. 

[tron]

I didn't even try Auto ISO until I got my 5DMkIII (previous cameras were 40D which unfortunately was stolen and subsequently 5DMkII). Coming from the film era, having the ability to choose the ISO in the digital cameras is more than enough for me.

[Maui5150]

I didn't even try Auto ISO until I got my 5DMkIII (previous cameras were 40D which unfortunately was stolen and subsequently 5DMkII). Coming from the film era, having the ability to choose the ISO in the digital cameras is more than enough for me.

Shush... Clearly this is a person who has not discovered "M", "TV" and "AV" modes. 

[friedmud]

As someone that just switched to Nikon for the D600 I agree with some of the OP's sentiment... But he is way off in 2 areas:

1.  No way this is a "Death Spiral". Canon has had some trouble with execution lately (look at the time between announcement and availability for most of their new stuff for instance) but they are still making big profits and selling tons of gear.

2.  Auto ISO and Flash?!?  Those are two words that don't belong together.  Don't get me wrong... I love the Auto ISO on my D600.  It is infinitely more usable than on my 7D because of all of the ways you can customize and restrict it.  However:  flashes should never be used with Auto ISO.

When using a flash you have a 4th variable outside of the normal shutter speed, aperture and ISO exposure triangle: flash intensity.  I've found that flash photography is best done in manual mode where you select the shutter speed you need to freeze the action (generally), the aperture you want for DoF you want, and the ISO you want for the amount of "background fill" (ie, how light or dark the rest of the scene will be in relation to your main subject).  THEN allow the camera to choose the correct amount of flash to properly expose your main subject.

Auto ISO and speedlights just doesn't make sense to me at all...

[Hobby Shooter]

I don't want to get all emotional here, but just to emphasize my other post, there are people who have other concerns than something about Canon (that I can't really remember) the OP mentioned. I took this pictures last Sunday on a morning walk.

I hope you did more than just taking the pictures

Well that is sort of the reason we live in a country like this. My wife works with international development within human rights and rule of law. These children are not starving, they are homeless. If they are not picked up by a children's protection organisation they are doomed to a life of crime and drugs though. My helping them with money of food wouldn't make a difference. One difference I can make is to publish a picture like that to make more people aware of what's going on in the world. That is in my view one of the tasks for photographers. I am not professional, but get some stuff published on occasion. This picture happens to be taken with my 5D3 but to deliver the message any tool could have been used. Auto ISO or not.

[GMCPhotographics]

Between the wife and myself we have 5 Canon bodies and 18 lenses of which only the 15mm fish eye and an old 100 macro are not L glass, with 7 series 2 lenses, so there is a sizable investment in Canon kit.

But the dissatisfaction with Canon’s tardiness is steadily mounting.

On a recent leopard safari the Nikon D4 crowd simply ran away with shots compared to the best our 1D Mk4s could deliver. We are not only talking sensor performance, although we lived like lepers with only ISO 1600 max, the most frustrating feature is that the fitting of a flash to the 1D Mk4 forces Auto ISO to fix at 400. Damn nuisance if you are doing night work, want to work Manual at ISO 1600 with a fill flash and the clever Canon firmware decides that it is time to override your settings.  The 1DX has the same problem  feature. This could explain why 7 out of the 10 photographers that joined the leopard safari shot Nikon.

Then there is the long wait for the release of partially sorted equipment.

I waited almost 2 years for the 24-70 Mk II lens. The 200-400 lens, as staple for wildlife shooting in the Nikon stable, is yet nowhere in sight. Would also love a 14-24 for landscape work….

All recently released bodies had significant problems and required post release upgrades and firmware replacement.

A lot of noise being made about the 1DX, probably the best copy of a Nikon 3D that Canon ever produced, and is probably marginally better than the D3, I seems a capable camera but only if compared to the previous Nikon model. It is the probably the very best Canon camera but that is a bit like being the most beautiful girl at an all-male party.

IMHO it seems that the constant release of superior Nikon products is forcing Canon’s hand. Canon has since the release of the D300 been in catch up mode and are being forced to announce products that are still on the drawing board, and then have to rush half-baked stuff to market, at prices that exceed the Nikon range.
Has Canon fallen terminally behind?

My concern is the rate at which the local photo community is switching to Nikon. With profitability already down Canon is yielding significant market share to innovative and high quality Nikon products and that means less money, also for R&D, resulting in less capable kit, resulting in less sales, resulting in less money…..

Should they rather focus on the point and shoot consumer market and leave the high end stuff to professionals?

Remember the D800 autofocus problems? Read Thom Hogan's blog...

Yep, I was at a owls in flight workshop a few months back (just after the 1DX was released). There were two 1DX's in use, and a chap with a D4...who gave up and went back to his backup D3 due to regular camera lockups. Both 1DX's performed flawlessly, as did my 5DIII. Another chap had a D800 and he kept missing shots, although I'd put that down to poor technique than the camera. The current Canon kit is easily the best currently available.
Back to the OP, I think it's unfair to compare a 1D4 with a D4. They are two different generations of cameras. I think a D3 vs 1D4 or D4 vs 1DX is more fair. 

[steliosk]

of course canon entered the graveyard long time ago..

- insane expensive equipment
- MANY less features comparing to nikon gear
- slow production rate.. anouncing outdated products before even released (check 6D vs D600)
D600 is out and selling like crazy, while canon 6D hasn't even produced from the factories with half the features rumored at the same price

Canon sensors are crappy lower DR ISO,
and of course you can "do" photography with a cheap camera as well BUT in the terms of quality and budget, Nikon offers MUCH more features and canon just follows

The most revolutionary Canon product ever was 5D mark 2 back in 2007-2008. Canon died after that.

[neuroanatomist]

of course canon entered the graveyard long time ago..

The most revolutionary Canon product ever was 5D mark 2 back in 2007-2008. Canon died after that.

If that's true, Canon is market-dominating zombie. 

[Skulker]

of course canon entered the graveyard long time ago..

The most revolutionary Canon product ever was 5D mark 2 back in 2007-2008. Canon died after that.

If that's true, Canon is market-dominating zombie.

  well said neuro

[robbymack]

I don't want to get all emotional here, but just to emphasize my other post, there are people who have other concerns than something about Canon (that I can't really remember) the OP mentioned. I took this pictures last Sunday on a morning walk.

I hope you did more than just taking the pictures

Well that is sort of the reason we live in a country like this. My wife works with international development within human rights and rule of law. These children are not starving, they are homeless. If they are not picked up by a children's protection organisation they are doomed to a life of crime and drugs though. My helping them with money of food wouldn't make a difference. One difference I can make is to publish a picture like that to make more people aware of what's going on in the world. That is in my view one of the tasks for photographers. I am not professional, but get some stuff published on occasion. This picture happens to be taken with my 5D3 but to deliver the message any tool could have been used. Auto ISO or not.

Really? helping with money or food wouldn't make a difference?  Even if for just that day?  your lack of compassion is staggering...keep on shooting that $3500 camera

[kubelik]

Well that was a great dose of morning comedy.  I've taken shots of running cheetahs with a 5d mark II and a 70-200 on a 2x extender.  Definitely did not get all keepers, but definitely did not feel like a leper.  I would imagine a 1d mark IV and 300 would be a massive jump up in keeper rate, and if you disagree I will be happy to help you offload defective equipment.  Also, I'm left handed and I still know how to push the ISO button.