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Author Topic: 5D3 vs. BMC  (Read 7909 times)

HurtinMinorKey

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5D3 vs. BMC
« on: November 14, 2012, 08:40:47 AM »
http://www.eoshd.com/content/9186/blackmagic-cinema-camera-review

Interesting comparison of the BMC with the 5D3.  The BMC really shows a huge improvement in highlight gradation. Plus with RAW you can get the perfect exposure every time.  The big downfall appears to be the workflow, as it is very GPU intensive.

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5D3 vs. BMC
« on: November 14, 2012, 08:40:47 AM »

Rofflesaurrr

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2012, 09:14:47 AM »
I don't see any reason to choose a 5D3 over the BMCC for video. It doesn't even compare. It's a great camera at an even better price point. It records direct to SSD, so that has to be factored into price if you don't already own some. SSD prices have come down a lot in the past year or two. However, if you use anything less then 120 or 240gb SSDs, you're going to be changing them out like magazines.

For editing, you're going to want a SSD or fast RAID 0 system to work with those files. A fast single or dual processor will speed things up, but isn't required. GPU speed can help if you are using a hardware accelerated NLE like Premiere Pro. My dual Xeon workstation has no problem editing 4k REDCODE RAW footage with a $100 nVidia Quadro card.

AprilForever

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2012, 09:17:28 AM »
http://www.eoshd.com/content/9186/blackmagic-cinema-camera-review

Interesting comparison of the BMC with the 5D3.  The BMC really shows a huge improvement in highlight gradation. Plus with RAW you can get the perfect exposure every time.  The big downfall appears to be the workflow, as it is very GPU intensive.

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asmundma

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #3 on: November 17, 2012, 11:01:15 AM »
Depends what you want do.....   Cropfactor is 2,6 (or some thing in that range). Its not a point and shoot camra, riquires a rig. And files are huge (the raw).  If you want to grade using their applicatioon, you have to have a decent machine and a lot of storage ...... 
I want to have a camra that shoot both stills and video... Were not there yet undortunatly as Canon is down scaling video in their Slrs, to be able to sell c100..c300. Etc.
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JasonATL

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2012, 02:52:34 PM »
I don't think that asmundma was intentionally providing incorrect information. But, for others that might read this and somehow rely on it, let's clear up some of the things that are stated as facts and, as such, are completely false.

Depends what you want do.....   Cropfactor is 2,6 (or some thing in that range).
Crop factor is 2.3
http://www.bmcuser.com/showthread.php?13-Crop-Factor-Lens-Database

Quote
Its not a point and shoot camra, riquires a rig.
The form factor of the BMCC appears to allow handholding quite well.
http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/handheld-with-a-bmcc-behind-the-scenes-with-puberty-blues/

Quote
And files are huge (the raw).  If you want to grade using their applicatioon, you have to have a decent machine and a lot of storage ...... 
You can choose to shoot in raw or compressed (ProResHQ or DNxHD). Raw is about 5 MB per frame, whereas the compressed options (ProRes HQ 4:2:2 or DNxHD 4:2:2) are about 220 Mbps. Yes, this is larger than most DSLR footage. With Magic Lantern, I can get about close to 200 Mbps from my Canon 600D, but it isn't 4:2:2. So, I find the file size concerns to be puzzling, since I actually try to get a less compressed image.

DaVinci Resolve is "their application". I currently use Resolve Lite on my nearly 2-year old Windows PC with a modest graphics card (GTX 560 Ti). I can edit the the BMCC raw files at full speed and resolution. As for storage, if you shoot compressed, the storage requirements are about 5x what you need for DSLR footage. But, it isn't a cost without benefit. You get a less compressed image with better color resolution. It should be noted that the full version of Resolve normally sells for nearly USD 1000 on its own, but comes bundled with the BMCC for free.

Again, the ProResHQ or DNxHD files can be graded and used in most NLE packages without the need to use Resolve.
http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagiccinemacamera/

I personally hope that Canon views the BMCC as serious competition and takes steps to provide more value (i.e., lower prices) in either their Cxxx cinema cameras or better video images in the DSLRs. I agree with asmundma that it is nice to have stills capability along with video. Plus, I still love the video image out of the Canon DSLRs, but look forward to adding a BMCC to the mix. I'm looking forward to Canon's HDMI update to the 5D3 and I doubt I'll give up on using the DSLRs even after I have a BMCC.

asmundma

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2012, 09:39:24 AM »
Thanks JasonATL for correcting my fast and somewhat incorrect reply. I tested Resove on a MAcBook Pro 2011 with i7 with Tumderbolt drive. Seems as Windows is better with a grafic card for this app, may the newes macs will be better.
Of cource you "can" handeld BMCC, but i think most people would agree that a c100, c300 is better. If you follow P. Blooms South Africa tour, you got the same message.
And you need a pretty wide lense with that crop facor to shoot wide. ( yea i know there are some alternatives)
I may buy such a camra, but it somewhat dangerous only to look at dynamic range, etc.
Agree that Canon needs to open up for high quality video.  The "best" camra for me would be the 1D C, but man, it costs a fourtune.
1DX, 5D3, 5D2, 24L, 16-35L II, 24-70L II, 24-105L, 100L  f2.8, 70-200L 2.8 II IS, 85L f1.2, sigma 50, 2x600RT

Axilrod

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 10:16:26 AM »
Aside from the sensor size, it's pretty much killing the 5D3 in every aspect.  The 5D3 is great if you want a hybrid stills/video camera but for straight up video the BMCC is amazing.  I have one on order, will probably keep my 5D3 still but couldn't pass up on 2.5K Raw for $3k.
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2012, 10:16:26 AM »

Axilrod

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2012, 01:20:20 PM »
This is the comparison that sold me on it: Comparing the Cinema Camera & 5D Mk III on Vimeo
I'd recommend downloading the original file, it's much easier to see the differences that way. 

There is an MFT version coming out in a few months, I'm wondering if that would be a better option since all the lenses are optimized for a small sensor. 
5DIII/5DII/Bunch of L's and ZE's, currently rearranging.

JasonATL

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2012, 03:19:42 PM »
Aside from the sensor size, it's pretty much killing the 5D3 in every aspect.  The 5D3 is great if you want a hybrid stills/video camera but for straight up video the BMCC is amazing.  I have one on order, will probably keep my 5D3 still but couldn't pass up on 2.5K Raw for $3k.

Axilrod: Me, too. Although, I was late to the game and only ordered my BMCC in September. I fear that I am in for a long wait. Having said that, I don't think it will cause me to never use my 5D3 or even 600D. I am still quite happy with the image from those cameras in many situations. I still love the DSLR look. Of course, my view might change when I have the BMCC!

Axilrod

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2012, 11:44:36 AM »
Aside from the sensor size, it's pretty much killing the 5D3 in every aspect.  The 5D3 is great if you want a hybrid stills/video camera but for straight up video the BMCC is amazing.  I have one on order, will probably keep my 5D3 still but couldn't pass up on 2.5K Raw for $3k.

Axilrod: Me, too. Although, I was late to the game and only ordered my BMCC in September. I fear that I am in for a long wait. Having said that, I don't think it will cause me to never use my 5D3 or even 600D. I am still quite happy with the image from those cameras in many situations. I still love the DSLR look. Of course, my view might change when I have the BMCC!

I agree, the 5D3 still has it's purpose.  I talked to the guys at Showcase and they said that they have 25 preorders as of a couple weeks ago, so yeah I'm sure there will be a wait.  I'm wondering if it would be worth waiting on the MTF version, since those lenses are designed for a smaller sensor in the first place. 

What I'm really hoping is that they put this sensor in the an S35 version: http://www.eoshd.com/content/9240/could-this-be-the-perfect-sensor-for-the-blackmagic-cinema-camera-mark-ii
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sandymandy

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #10 on: November 21, 2012, 12:35:57 PM »
5d3 video looked really crappy in comparison. If u do mostly video i think better get the Cinema cam.

Drizzt321

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #11 on: November 21, 2012, 01:20:01 PM »
Thanks JasonATL for correcting my fast and somewhat incorrect reply. I tested Resove on a MAcBook Pro 2011 with i7 with Tumderbolt drive. Seems as Windows is better with a grafic card for this app, may the newes macs will be better.
Of cource you "can" handeld BMCC, but i think most people would agree that a c100, c300 is better. If you follow P. Blooms South Africa tour, you got the same message.
And you need a pretty wide lense with that crop facor to shoot wide. ( yea i know there are some alternatives)
I may buy such a camra, but it somewhat dangerous only to look at dynamic range, etc.
Agree that Canon needs to open up for high quality video.  The "best" camra for me would be the 1D C, but man, it costs a fourtune.

It might be that you don't have an Nvidia GPU. I haven't researched it, but it appears from what I read in the review Resolve uses CUDA, which is Nvidia specific, although OpenCL is quite similar and can theoretically run across ATI or Nvidia without much trouble, there may be certain reasons why they don't/can't easily use OpenCL rather than CUDA. That likely is a big reason why you didn't have good performance on your Macbook.

Besides, it's a laptop. You're expecting amazing performance out of a laptop? And remember, just because it's a Thunderbolt drive, doesn't mean it's fast. It could still be a bog standard 7200 RPM mechanical disk there. If it was a quality SSD, that's different of course, but otherwise it wouldn't necessarily be all that much faster than the one in the Macbook.

I also think the point is that what you get for the price is fantastic, and at least arguably on par with some of the much more expensive options such as the 1DC/Red/C100/C300. Those are at least 3-4 times expensive, BEFORE you start adding in lenses, rig, recording media, etc. For the young film maker without a decent budget (even for rentals), the BMCC is much more affordable. I think that's one of the reasons the 5d2 was so amazing back in the day is because you could get a pretty good quality for, relatively, quite inexpensive with relatively inexpensive lenses. And Canon has, since then, mostly fallen by the wayside due to their attempt to push the video DSLR up into the more expensive higher margin area. Which is exactly the opposite of what the 5d2 was, and is why they are losing a lot of mindshare from what I've been hearing (I'm out here in LA, have a few friends in the industry). BMCC seems to be around the same price point, compatible with the same lenses (depending on the version you get of course), and gives you a ton more than anything Canon, and possibly most other cinema camera manufacturers, give you at a similar price point.
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Policar

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 01:47:07 PM »
5d3 video looked really crappy in comparison. If u do mostly video i think better get the Cinema cam.

What the 5D has in its favor is that it's incredibly easy to use and durable. The BMCC is more of a studio camera. I can take my 5D out in the rain and use cheap $20 per 32gb SD cards and ergonomically it's great. The batteries are tiny and last quite a while. Lens compatibility is amazing. Low light is incredible; the availability of 24mm f1.4 (UWA equivalent to 16mm on super16) for cheap and 10000 ISO is remarkable. Image quality is not.

There are ways to push the image quality closer (sharpen a bit in post, use HTP when appropriate), but if you shoot exclusively in studio and don't need UWA lenses or a lot of speed, the BMCC has its merits. But trade offs either way.

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #12 on: November 21, 2012, 01:47:07 PM »

meli

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2012, 01:56:41 PM »
There is alot of talk about canon falling behind in sensor tech and (in combination with high pricing & competition) losing market but i think this is where Canon shot themselves in the foot and lost a huge market.

They basically failed to capitalize on the revolution 5d2 brought on the market and instead of pursuing that market they took a conservative and wrong based approach. The 5d2 boom on the video market wasnt about having a dslr form factor with okay IQ and definitely not for 10k+. It was about great IQ - interchangeable lens system on a 2k-4k price range.

thelebaron

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 04:00:22 PM »
I dont think canon are that behind, but they just chose to cripple the 5d's video in comparison to the c300/1dc and even 1dx, and it will come back to bite them as the bmc rolls into the market. also their pricing for their cinema line is exorbitantly high for most of those who bought into the 5d2 revolution

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Re: 5D3 vs. BMC
« Reply #14 on: November 21, 2012, 04:00:22 PM »