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Author Topic: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.  (Read 9075 times)

jdramirez

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2012, 08:33:40 PM »
So I spent the day learning about high sync shutter and it is really cool.  I know I will easily be able to shoot at 1/2000th of a second using the 430ex ii and my 60d, but I'm not 100% sure what I will do with the bouncing of the light.  I think what I am going to do is make a home made diffuser to mount over the speedlight so I have the light, but it is not as powerful. 

Fingers crossed.
Home made diffuser? Simple! A translucent white plastic bag and a rubber-band! That it! And the best part is that your diffuser height and even the shape is variable :)

What I have right now is a plastic water bottle with the top cut off, then I have it fitted around the top of my flash.  It looks SUPER classy, but then I'm going to put in "ribbons" of translucent white filler paper.  The kind you would put in a gift.  And that should glow evenly and give the desired effect of sending a soft white light in multiple directions, while at the same time, not absorbing all the light to the point to where it is not even worth using  flash.  That's my plan in the mean time.

But I did think about a plastic bag too... but I figure that would look even worse.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #15 on: November 18, 2012, 08:33:40 PM »

jdramirez

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2012, 08:36:46 PM »
So I spent the day learning about high sync shutter and it is really cool.  I know I will easily be able to shoot at 1/2000th of a second using the 430ex ii and my 60d, but I'm not 100% sure what I will do with the bouncing of the light.  I think what I am going to do is make a home made diffuser to mount over the speedlight so I have the light, but it is not as powerful. 

I found that the hss+430ex2 is not powerful enough to do large bounces or mount a diffusor with the object not near the camera, and if it is and somehow manages the flash power is drained in one shot and it needs a lot of time to recycle. But feel free to try and tell me otherwise :-)

I really don't think I'm going to be able to bounce it from the 30 to maybe even 40 ft ceiling.  So that's why I'm making this diffuser.  I'm going to shoot at f/2.8, kick the iso up to 400 or maybe 800 to increase the shutter speed to over 1/1000... maybe even 1/2000 of a second. 

As for recycle time... I'm not sure it will take THAT LONG.  I won't get shot after shot after shot like I do in football, but I think I should be able to get a recycle time of less than 3 seconds.  I think that is reasonable. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

jdramirez

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #17 on: November 18, 2012, 08:39:58 PM »
I would attempt to put an appropriate orange gel on the flash to correct the blue and not leave this for post. Or, take a largish piece of white cardboard and blue tack it on the wall and bounce the flash off it.
If u leave it for post and correct the blue tint then the ambient light will take a beating.
Please check again, maybe your camera/flash will sync to higher shutter speeds, my 5d3/older flash does. You need to set correct settings in the flash. And yes faster shutter speed is a good idea. Pump up the iso if need be as much as required but you must freeze.
Wish you a great shoot.

Honestly... when I was bouncing the light off of either the floor or the blue mat, I didn't see a horrible tinge.  I think that is because the blue mat is that shy reflective substance... so it was reflecting a great deal of white light out onto the court.  I realize that it would be awful if I were more of a matte finish and it was casting blue out onto the court... but I was pleasantly surprised. 

As for high speed sync... I was able to get 1/1000 of a second HSS just messing with it at home.  I don't think it will be a problem. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

jdramirez

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #18 on: November 18, 2012, 08:45:27 PM »
I appreciate your response, but I'm not sure I understand what you are saying.  Per what I was listening to yesterday, the flash normally goes off for 1/50000 of a second.  And so what the flash does is it strobes at multiple intervals throughout the shutter so the top of the sensor receives a consistent amount of light as the rest of the shot.  So it strobes 20 times over 1/1000 of a second which is pretty cool. 

As for being weaker... I'm not sure, but it seemed equally as blinding as the normal flash. 

And I don't think HSS is for difficult lighting... I think 2nd curtain is more applicable for long exposure with flash at the end of the shot.  Though I'm willing to listen if you can further elaborate. 

The HSS is no the right answer to your problem! HSS is using the flash as a lamp, glowing 1/200s to keep the light on as long as the shutter is running. (Shutter sync speed). To prevent the flash to be demaged, the Hss flash is 4 times weaker than the normal one. HSS is only made to fill shadows while shooting portrait outside in the sun with wide open aperture and high shutter speed.
The normal flash is just 1/800s so the flash is delivering you the freeze and the higher power you need in a gym.
To keep the white balance under control, I would use a lee filter in front of the flash. These filters are realy cheap. You can buy a sample package from Lee with 100 different colors for 15$.
How to make it work: 
1.Take your camera and make some shots in the gym with automatic WB.
2. Look with the info page on the WB.
3. Chose a filter for the flash with the same K and stick them in front of the flash.
4. Fix the WB manually to the same value.
5. Use Av mode and correct -2EV and flash correction to 0EV: the flash is than 75% and the room light is 25% of total that gives you a good freeze and non overflashed look. If you struggle with to short shutter speed, switch tomanual mode and 1/250s the E-TTL will put the right flash in.

Advantages:
Only one color of light - easy to adjust in the post
Enough flash power
If the flash is not using ful power, shorter repeat time

Same strategy also works for parties with a 3200k filter in front of a flash and normal lights. You can handhold and freeze with 300mm easily.

Would be nice to get a feedback if this works for you.

Enthusiast
[/quote]
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

rpt

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2012, 08:55:49 PM »
So I spent the day learning about high sync shutter and it is really cool.  I know I will easily be able to shoot at 1/2000th of a second using the 430ex ii and my 60d, but I'm not 100% sure what I will do with the bouncing of the light.  I think what I am going to do is make a home made diffuser to mount over the speedlight so I have the light, but it is not as powerful. 

Fingers crossed.
Home made diffuser? Simple! A translucent white plastic bag and a rubber-band! That it! And the best part is that your diffuser height and even the shape is variable :)

What I have right now is a plastic water bottle with the top cut off, then I have it fitted around the top of my flash.  It looks SUPER classy, but then I'm going to put in "ribbons" of translucent white filler paper.  The kind you would put in a gift.  And that should glow evenly and give the desired effect of sending a soft white light in multiple directions, while at the same time, not absorbing all the light to the point to where it is not even worth using  flash.  That's my plan in the mean time.

But I did think about a plastic bag too... but I figure that would look even worse.
For your shooting distance you would probably need to have some reflective material on the bottle where it is not facing the shot. You don't want to waste the light going out from there... That is where the plastic bag fails. It is fine for closer home shots. And you will need to dial up the flash exposure compensation too...

jdramirez

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #20 on: November 18, 2012, 09:25:43 PM »
So I spent the day learning about high sync shutter and it is really cool.  I know I will easily be able to shoot at 1/2000th of a second using the 430ex ii and my 60d, but I'm not 100% sure what I will do with the bouncing of the light.  I think what I am going to do is make a home made diffuser to mount over the speedlight so I have the light, but it is not as powerful. 

Fingers crossed.
Home made diffuser? Simple! A translucent white plastic bag and a rubber-band! That it! And the best part is that your diffuser height and even the shape is variable :)

What I have right now is a plastic water bottle with the top cut off, then I have it fitted around the top of my flash.  It looks SUPER classy, but then I'm going to put in "ribbons" of translucent white filler paper.  The kind you would put in a gift.  And that should glow evenly and give the desired effect of sending a soft white light in multiple directions, while at the same time, not absorbing all the light to the point to where it is not even worth using  flash.  That's my plan in the mean time.

But I did think about a plastic bag too... but I figure that would look even worse.
For your shooting distance you would probably need to have some reflective material on the bottle where it is not facing the shot. You don't want to waste the light going out from there... That is where the plastic bag fails. It is fine for closer home shots. And you will need to dial up the flash exposure compensation too...

So tin foil? facing the rear (towards me) so that light will bounce forward as well. 
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

rpt

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2012, 09:55:11 PM »
So I spent the day learning about high sync shutter and it is really cool.  I know I will easily be able to shoot at 1/2000th of a second using the 430ex ii and my 60d, but I'm not 100% sure what I will do with the bouncing of the light.  I think what I am going to do is make a home made diffuser to mount over the speedlight so I have the light, but it is not as powerful. 

Fingers crossed.
Home made diffuser? Simple! A translucent white plastic bag and a rubber-band! That it! And the best part is that your diffuser height and even the shape is variable :)

What I have right now is a plastic water bottle with the top cut off, then I have it fitted around the top of my flash.  It looks SUPER classy, but then I'm going to put in "ribbons" of translucent white filler paper.  The kind you would put in a gift.  And that should glow evenly and give the desired effect of sending a soft white light in multiple directions, while at the same time, not absorbing all the light to the point to where it is not even worth using  flash.  That's my plan in the mean time.

But I did think about a plastic bag too... but I figure that would look even worse.
For your shooting distance you would probably need to have some reflective material on the bottle where it is not facing the shot. You don't want to waste the light going out from there... That is where the plastic bag fails. It is fine for closer home shots. And you will need to dial up the flash exposure compensation too...

So tin foil? facing the rear (towards me) so that light will bounce forward as well.
Something like that. Or aluminium foil we get to wrap food...

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #21 on: November 18, 2012, 09:55:11 PM »

jdramirez

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #22 on: November 18, 2012, 10:27:58 PM »
So I spent the day learning about high sync shutter and it is really cool.  I know I will easily be able to shoot at 1/2000th of a second using the 430ex ii and my 60d, but I'm not 100% sure what I will do with the bouncing of the light.  I think what I am going to do is make a home made diffuser to mount over the speedlight so I have the light, but it is not as powerful. 

Fingers crossed.
Home made diffuser? Simple! A translucent white plastic bag and a rubber-band! That it! And the best part is that your diffuser height and even the shape is variable :)

What I have right now is a plastic water bottle with the top cut off, then I have it fitted around the top of my flash.  It looks SUPER classy, but then I'm going to put in "ribbons" of translucent white filler paper.  The kind you would put in a gift.  And that should glow evenly and give the desired effect of sending a soft white light in multiple directions, while at the same time, not absorbing all the light to the point to where it is not even worth using  flash.  That's my plan in the mean time.

But I did think about a plastic bag too... but I figure that would look even worse.
For your shooting distance you would probably need to have some reflective material on the bottle where it is not facing the shot. You don't want to waste the light going out from there... That is where the plastic bag fails. It is fine for closer home shots. And you will need to dial up the flash exposure compensation too...

So tin foil? facing the rear (towards me) so that light will bounce forward as well.
Something like that. Or aluminium foil we get to wrap food...

That must be my Texas roots coming out.  I'm nt sure why we call aluminum foil tin foil... but we do.
Upgrade  path.->means the former was sold for the latter.

XS->60D->5d Mkiii:18-55->24-105L:75-300->55-250->70-300->70-200 f4L USM->70-200 f/2.8L USM->70-200 f/2.8L IS Mkii:50 f/1.8->50 f/1.4->100L-> 85mm f/1.8 USM-> 8mm -> 85mm f/1.2L mkii

EOBeav

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #23 on: November 19, 2012, 12:00:02 AM »
Wow; lots of different approaches to this. Trying to bounce light to shoot a basketball game (even a slower moving one) just seems like a lot of extra unnecessary work to me. Plus, won't that give you some shadows that you don't want? 

Instead, would it be possible to get a hold of a longer, faster lens for something like this? I'm renting a 135mm f/2 for a couple of basketball games in a few weeks, and I'm looking forward to seeing what that can do on my 5DmkII.
In landscape photography, when you shoot is more important than where.

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #24 on: November 19, 2012, 12:31:32 AM »
Bouncing flash to light a gym probably isn't going to work out well with a speed light. Maybe a studio strobe/monoblock would work, but I'd suggest taking a look at this article on Strobist on using speed lights as direct light.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2006/04/on-assignment-prep-basketball.html

That said, I get decent results with available light from my 50D and a 70-200. I shoot at f/2.8, ISO 2500, and shutter at 1/400s. I would recommend shooting 5-10 minutes with available light in case your flash experiments don't turn out the way you want. And I shoot RAW, as post-processing is really what makes the photos turn out (noise reduction, tweaking sharpness and exposure)
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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #25 on: November 19, 2012, 02:31:52 AM »
Not to butt in, since I am not knowledge enough to give you advice on your problem. However, I see a lot of folks here who cares about and knows a great deal about flashes. I have I question: Do you have a tip for a good softbox that works with my 430EX ii, 580EX ii, and 600EX RT? The way I intend to use it most, is to place the flash and softbox on a monopod to get portaits outside, so the softbox must not be so big that a person cannot hold it for a resonably timespan.

Thanks,

G.
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rpt

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #26 on: November 19, 2012, 09:58:06 AM »
Snip!

That must be my Texas roots coming out.  I'm nt sure why we call aluminum foil tin foil... but we do.
:) yes, some things stick... Btw, when you get done could you share the photo of your DIY diffuser?

Marsu42

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 10:05:52 AM »
I have I question: Do you have a tip for a good softbox that works with my 430EX ii, 580EX ii, and 600EX RT? The way I intend to use it most, is to place the flash and softbox on a monopod to get portaits outside, so the softbox must not be so big that a person cannot hold it for a resonably timespan.

What's wrong with the vanilla commercial softboxes? Look @amazon, their weight is between 500-1500g (depending on size).  Your only problem might be that they consume much flash power so the 430ex2 could be underpowered for daylight outdoor shots.

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #27 on: November 19, 2012, 10:05:52 AM »

Quasimodo

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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #28 on: November 19, 2012, 11:20:11 AM »
I have I question: Do you have a tip for a good softbox that works with my 430EX ii, 580EX ii, and 600EX RT? The way I intend to use it most, is to place the flash and softbox on a monopod to get portaits outside, so the softbox must not be so big that a person cannot hold it for a resonably timespan.

What's wrong with the vanilla commercial softboxes? Look @amazon, their weight is between 500-1500g (depending on size).  Your only problem might be that they consume much flash power so the 430ex2 could be underpowered for daylight outdoor shots.

Good tip on the 430 being to weak for daylight shots. 
Nothing wrong with the vanilla ones :) but I wanted to be sure to buy one which is good and can be used with all three separate flashes. Nice if it is not too expensive too. I looked at one from Cowboy studio (after looking at another thread here) and it was in many ways a fit, however it seemed cumberstone to mount when outside..  I was thinking about the Ezybox by Lastolite, but in Norway it is quite stiff in price.
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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2012, 11:34:12 AM »
I was thinking about the Ezybox by Lastolite, but in Norway it is quite stiff in price.

I have a pair of the 24" Ezyboxes, they're quite sturdy and easy to set up.  I expect the quality of light is no different from the cheap ones, but the build quality and durability of the Lastolites are very good.
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Re: White balance setting and RAW. Also flash sync speed.
« Reply #29 on: November 19, 2012, 11:34:12 AM »