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Author Topic: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]  (Read 30387 times)

jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: November 19, 2012, 05:56:34 PM »

The 180nm process should start making appearances in DSLRs soon.
It appears that parts of the 6D sensor are already made on 180nm process, as vaguely confirmed by Canon Japan:
  • The newly developed CMOS sensor, introducing a process miniaturization in semiconductor process CMOS

It's interesting that Canon USA/Europe do not mention anything about that.

Based on the available info, though, I'd say that the 6D will end up having better image quality than the 5DIII.
Note that the rumors floating around are saying that only parts of the 6D sensor are made on 180nm.
So, the 6D sensor is essentially a 180nm/500nm hybrid.

The question is, are the new APS-C sensors from Canon going to be fully made on 180nm?
If they are 180nm/500nm hybrids, performance might not be all that different from current sensors.
 
But if they are fully made on 180nm, they are certainly going to match/beat the current 16mp Sony sensors.

Thanks - great find  -- there is a little blurb on Adorama saying:  "the sensor, which contains a new photodiode structure" ...  which also indicates something new to the sensor design, but that's a little vague.   Just what do "process miniaturization" and "new photodiode structure" mean to the design, exactly, anyway?   ???

It sounds promising: I'm looking forward to seeing some production 6D performance data.   Hopefully within a few weeks now.   

There is quite honestly not enough information to draw a conclusion.  Ultimately, once Chipworks analyses a 6D sensor, we will know.
It will be interesting if Canon introduces new sensor technology in the 6D - I would not have expected that, but would rather have expected the 1DX mark II (or whatever it is called) and 5D mark IV to be the first full frame bodies from Canon to see a 180nm sensor.
It would intrigue me if Canon moved to a new process with the 6D.  If Canon were to make such a move, that would seem to be a clear indication that Canon expects to move comparatively large numbers of bodies in order to drive the economies of scale.

Canon seems to do well regardless of whether their technology is the best or not. Canon is pretty much THE household name for photographic equipment, and the 5D III sales seemed to be phenomenal throughout the summer and into early fall, despite its sensors inferiority to the D800's. That seems to indicate sensor really truly IS NOT everything, and it also seems to indicate Canon still knows how to sell cameras better than anyone else...which is what matters. I wouldn't be surprised if the 6D sold in significant numbers.

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #135 on: November 19, 2012, 05:56:34 PM »

x-vision

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #136 on: November 19, 2012, 06:15:18 PM »

Canon seems to do well regardless of whether their technology is the best or not.

Aah. You must have missed the discussion about the last quarterly results from Canon and Nikon.

DSLR sales at Canon were down for the quarter (compared to 2011), while Nikon's sales were up.
Canon blamed it on the strong yen and delayed introductions.
(How is the strong yen affecting Canon but not Nikon ??? )

The fact that Canon is down for a quarter is certainly not a big deal.
But if you are down while the competition is up, then you have reasons to be concerned.


Overall, Canon was not doing all that well last quarter.
They've been overpricing left and right in the last year - but if the last quarter is any indication, their overpricing strategy is not working out.

neuroanatomist

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #137 on: November 19, 2012, 06:56:37 PM »
Aah. You must have missed the discussion about the last quarterly results from Canon and Nikon.
DSLR sales at Canon were down for the quarter (compared to 2011), while Nikon's sales were up.

Ever heard the term 'outlier'? One quarter doesn't make a trend. Do you make a lot of your financial decisions based on results from the most recent quarter but ignoring the results from the previous several years? If so, how's your portfolio doing?
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jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #138 on: November 20, 2012, 06:05:48 PM »

Canon seems to do well regardless of whether their technology is the best or not.

Aah. You must have missed the discussion about the last quarterly results from Canon and Nikon.

DSLR sales at Canon were down for the quarter (compared to 2011), while Nikon's sales were up.
Canon blamed it on the strong yen and delayed introductions.
(How is the strong yen affecting Canon but not Nikon ??? )

The fact that Canon is down for a quarter is certainly not a big deal.
But if you are down while the competition is up, then you have reasons to be concerned.


Overall, Canon was not doing all that well last quarter.
They've been overpricing left and right in the last year - but if the last quarter is any indication, their overpricing strategy is not working out.

Your taking the results of a SINGLE quarter and making a trend? Seriously?  ::)

Canon still outsold everyone who sells DSLRs, despite the fact that it was a "down" quarter. There are countless factors that play into a down quarter for a company like Canon, and making less money is still a FAR cry from losing gobs and gobs of money or piling on so much debt you reach junk bond status (things which many other tech and camera companies have done in recent years, including Sony, but which Canon has NOT!) People proclaiming the demise of Canon because they can't make "a billion dollars" is also inane...their $990 million is still more in sales than Nikon has EVER done, to my knowledge. Over the last few years, I believe Canon yearly DSLR sales consistently amounted to about four times as much as Nikon DSLR sales (~8 billion vs. ~2 billion). When Canon starts making quarterly losses (LOSSES, not less profit, but actual losses) in significant numbers over multiple quarters, then their financials might concern me, but so long as Canon rakes in a billion or two per quarter, I have no concern whatsoever. Not with world economies being what they are.

TeenTog

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #139 on: November 20, 2012, 11:00:06 PM »
Quote
[When Canon starts making quarterly losses (LOSSES, not less profit, but actual losses) in significant numbers over multiple quarters, then their financials might concern me, but so long as Canon rakes in a billion or two per quarter, I have no concern whatsoever. Not with world economies being what they are./quote]

Very True! I was a bit uncertain as to why everone was so worried about canon not making a Billion last quarter. I mean, 990 million is still a lot, plus they MADE 990 million. They didn't lose a penny. Thats far better than I can say about some companies these days..................Hostess?  ;)
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neuroanatomist

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #140 on: November 21, 2012, 06:35:48 AM »
Thats far better than I can say about some companies these days..................Hostess?

That's more of a labor dispute issue, as opposed to people not buying enough Twinkies...
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nicku

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: November 21, 2012, 08:19:38 AM »
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<p><strong>What can we expect in early 2013?<br />

</strong>I’m told we’ll be seeing two seperate announcements in back to back months in 2013. We’ll see announcements in February and March, one of the announcements will be a “major” event. Sometimes the word “major” is used incorrectly.</p>
<p><strong>EOS-M<br />

</strong>Apparently, one of the announcements will be to introduce a second EOS-M body. The body will be slightly bigger, and have a viewfinder. They will also introduce at least two new lenses with the body. I’d expect a telephoto zoom and a fast prime.</p>
<p><strong>EOS 7D Mark II<br />

</strong>One of these announcement dates will also be for the EOS 7D replacement. No word on specs, but it’s suggested the camera/segment will get a new naming scheme.</p>
<p><strong>Big Megapixel<br />

</strong>The 40+ mp camera gets another mention and we should expect an announcement in Q1 of 2013. The camera will be physically bigger than the 5D Mark III, but will be smaller than the EOS-1D X. It’s noted that the sensor is currently in EOS-1D X styled bodies.</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>


I will wait until February to see what 7D2 improvements (i mean in terms of IQ) will bring the 7D2.... ( before switching to Nikon);

will be nice to see a 19-19,2 MP ( not bigger) sensor with improved IQ and dual card slots. the rest is competitive even today.

The ''divine gift'' will be a APS-H sensor , but the chances that will happen are very slim :( . But who knows ... judging the fact that Nikon is beating the hell out of Canon lately ... The APS-H sensor can be the ace in the sleeve for Canon, and definitely a hard blow for Nikon.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 08:24:24 AM by nicku »

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #141 on: November 21, 2012, 08:19:38 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #142 on: November 21, 2012, 09:19:06 AM »
... judging the fact that Nikon is beating the hell out of Canon lately ...

LOL. Hyperbolize much?
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jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #143 on: November 21, 2012, 12:57:07 PM »
The ''divine gift'' will be a APS-H sensor , but the chances that will happen are very slim :( . But who knows ... judging the fact that Nikon is beating the hell out of Canon lately ... The APS-H sensor can be the ace in the sleeve for Canon, and definitely a hard blow for Nikon.

How exactly do you quantify "Nikon beating the hell out of Canon lately"? I would really like to know.

Personally I think competition is good, and only benefits the consumer. However, Sony is the one who owns the tech (not Nikon), Sony is the one who is innovating new technology, and Sony is also the one who is also billions upon billions of dollars in debt, with near-junk bond status, trying to build an empire of sensors in a slowing economy. Sony's technology definitely beats Canon's *right now*, but Canon has a better business model. They know how to make money, know how to bank money, and won't sit in the shadows forever...so they could present significant competition to Sony in the near future, and they will be in a better financial position to do so. They aren't billions in debt, they are still raking in billions in revenue each quarter, and it seems clear now that they have a new 180nm fabrication process waiting just around the corner. If I had to pick a stock to invest in, I'd invest in Canon's:

Canon (CAJ on NYSE):
Price: $34.51
EPS: $2.32 (GOOD GAIN!)
Dividend: $0.76/shr/qtr (4.31%)
Price above 50DMA and below 200DMA and climbing (bullish)
Actively pursuing mergers and acquisitions of innovative CIS technology companies to expand CIS technology portfolio
They pay a great dividend (mark of solid financials)


Sony (SNE on NYSE):
Price: $10.05
EPS: -$5.57 (SIGNIFICANT LOSS!)
Dividend: $0.16/shr/qtr (3.11%)
Price below 50DMA and below 200DMA and falling (bearish)
Actively selling billions in new bonds at near-junk bond status to fund payment of prior bonds and further fund CIS development that is already far better than the competitions, and does not necessarily need continued aggressive funding
They pay an ok dividend (not bad in general, but odd that they pay one at all, given their EPS and significant debt)

bdunbar79

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #144 on: November 21, 2012, 02:27:02 PM »
Aah. You must have missed the discussion about the last quarterly results from Canon and Nikon.
DSLR sales at Canon were down for the quarter (compared to 2011), while Nikon's sales were up.

Ever heard the term 'outlier'? One quarter doesn't make a trend. Do you make a lot of your financial decisions based on results from the most recent quarter but ignoring the results from the previous several years? If so, how's your portfolio doing?

Thank goodness most people on here are photographers and not financial advisors.
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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #144 on: November 21, 2012, 02:27:02 PM »