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Author Topic: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]  (Read 31645 times)

x-vision

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2012, 05:52:29 PM »
Is anyone else wondering why there may/will be a new "naming scheme"?

Depends on what is meant by "naming scheme".

The '7D' name will not change, IMO, but it's certainly possible that the 'Mark XX' naming scheme might get retired.
Thus, instead of using the name '7D Mark II' for the 7D successor, Canon might use a new naming scheme.

Certainly a possibility.
I'd be taking the 7DII rumors with a grain of salt, though.

The 7D is a year older than the 60D and is seemingly the next candidate for an update.
The thing is, the 60D has been continuously lagging behind Nikon's D7000 in sales, even though it's been selling for less.
So, it might actually make more business sense for Canon to update the 60D first, not the 7D.

Either way, one of these two cameras will get an update early next year for sure.
And we'll get a new toy either way :P.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 06:34:23 PM by x-vision »

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2012, 05:52:29 PM »

jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2012, 06:49:38 PM »
Jrista... please.....calm down, deep breaths, whoooo Shaaaa !!   :P

Eh, what?

jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2012, 06:56:25 PM »
No, it doesn't.  EVFs of good quality are actually quite expensive.  RED sells their Bomb EVF for $3,200:
http://www.red.com/store/products/red-pro-evf

How does the Bomb EVF perform for dynamic range and response time with specs like these:

Bit Depth (Color): 30-bit RGB
Display Rate: Up to 60 FPS (Display mode and Camera Dependent)

Not familiar with EVF technology

If it's 30-bit color is 10-bbp, so that would be 10 stops for the Bomb EVF. Keep in mind, the EVF ALONE is almost FOUR GRAND. That is well beyond even professional grade DSLR prices, and it is optimized for previewing video, not stills. An optical viewfinder won't limit your DR, so as cameras push right up to the limit of 14 stops in 14-bit sensors/ADCs, then move on to full 16 stops in 16-bit sensors/ADCs, an OVF keeps up. Even a 10-bpp EVF that costs thousands would still be limited.

don

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« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2012, 07:13:48 PM »
A pro aimed EOS M would be nice.

A 7D2 is way overdue.

And the BIG MP camera will be here soon.

Let's see some innovation canon.

don

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #109 on: November 18, 2012, 07:15:11 PM »
3D at B&H

Lee Jay

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #110 on: November 18, 2012, 08:07:51 PM »
If it's 30-bit color is 10-bbp, so that would be 10 stops for the Bomb EVF.

Maximum.  If the display can actually put out what it's being fed.  Which it well may not.

hmmm

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2012, 08:21:04 PM »
I believe the "major" announcement will be the 7D mkII.    It will be the first camera with Canon's new-technology sensor, is my guess.

Page down to this page on Northlight (sourced from Chipworks) on what is likely to be coming.   http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html        Canon is finally moving its process below 500 nanometers.

We'll see it on the 7DmkII, then the 70D, then most likely the t5i before anything on full-frame.  No full frame applications until 2014 or so.   But my guess is the new sensor tech will move up the refresh for the 5DmkIII a bit earlier than might be expected based on time between previous refreshes.


The new technology is coming ... we'll see it on the 7D mkII early next year... but the zillion dollar question is how good will it be?

Naming convention: since the sensor tech will be new, a new naming convention would make sense, fitting in with that part of the rumor.   It could be the Canon Apple 1 or something.    Whatever.

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #111 on: November 18, 2012, 08:21:04 PM »

Lee Jay

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #112 on: November 18, 2012, 09:20:11 PM »
Page down to this page on Northlight (sourced from Chipworks) on what is likely to be coming.   http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html        Canon is finally moving its process below 500 nanometers.

Canon produces back-side illuminated CMOS sensors with 1.5 micron pixels (equivalent to 24,000x16,000 = 384MP on full-frame) for its compact cameras.  I have three of these sensors and their performance is nothing short of spectacular compared to the performance of my 5D or T2i sensors - per unit of area of course.  I've often mused about the idea of applying the 4-pixel binning approach from the C100 to a full-frame sensor composed of those pixels.  That would give you a 96MP (37.5MP on APS-C) sensor with full-color pixels and almost no read noise.

jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #113 on: November 18, 2012, 09:24:49 PM »
If it's 30-bit color is 10-bbp, so that would be 10 stops for the Bomb EVF.

Maximum.  If the display can actually put out what it's being fed.  Which it well may not.

Agreed.

jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #114 on: November 18, 2012, 09:35:39 PM »
Page down to this page on Northlight (sourced from Chipworks) on what is likely to be coming.   http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_rumours.html        Canon is finally moving its process below 500 nanometers.

Canon produces back-side illuminated CMOS sensors with 1.5 micron pixels (equivalent to 24,000x16,000 = 384MP on full-frame) for its compact cameras.  I have three of these sensors and their performance is nothing short of spectacular compared to the performance of my 5D or T2i sensors - per unit of area of course.  I've often mused about the idea of applying the 4-pixel binning approach from the C100 to a full-frame sensor composed of those pixels.  That would give you a 96MP (37.5MP on APS-C) sensor with full-color pixels and almost no read noise.

I've heard someone else mention Canon's BSI CMOS sensors. I knew they posted a patent in January 2012, but I was not aware it was in production yet (as far as I knew, it was for FF and APS-C sized sensors). I am curious though...is Canon going BSI to avoid having to move to a process smaller than 500nm? Since the photodiode is exposed directly to light in a BSI design, the transistor size for everything "backside" wouldn't matter as much, since it is no longer in the light path.

According to an article released by chipworks a few weeks ago, Canon DOES have 180nm fabrication processes that are capable of developing large sensors with high refractive index lightpipe technology, which is kind of a stepping stone to BSI (better than sensors without either, but not as good as BSI itself.) I really wish there was more solid information about where Canon is going, for what products, and when.

I held off on the 5D III, I would love to get a 1D X, but I am having a hard time pulling the trigger on that if better stuff is just around the corner. By no means do I think the 1D X or the 5D III are "bad" cameras in any respect...but if a 46mp beauty is released next year for around $5000 to $7000, I'd be pretty miffed that I spent my $7 grand on the 1D X instead, when my 7D serves my bird and wildlife purposes perfectly well (and with extra reach in every case.)

x-vision

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #115 on: November 18, 2012, 10:51:27 PM »
Canon produces back-side illuminated CMOS sensors with 1.5 micron pixels (equivalent to 24,000x16,000 = 384MP on full-frame) for its compact cameras. 

These are likely Sony sensors, as Canon does not have BSI technology.

Canon does not use it's own sensors for compacts ... except for the 12mp sensor in the S100/S110 and G15.
This is the sensor, based on which Chipworks concluded that Canon has a 180nm (FSI) process already.

The 180nm process should start making appearances in DSLRs soon.
It appears that parts of the 6D sensor are already made on 180nm process, as vaguely confirmed by Canon Japan:
  • The newly developed CMOS sensor, introducing a process miniaturization in semiconductor process CMOS

It's interesting that Canon USA/Europe do not mention anything about that.

Based on the available info, though, I'd say that the 6D will end up having better image quality than the 5DIII.
Note that the rumors floating around are saying that only parts of the 6D sensor are made on 180nm.
So, the 6D sensor is essentially a 180nm/500nm hybrid.

The question is, are the new APS-C sensors from Canon going to be fully made on 180nm?
If they are 180nm/500nm hybrids, performance might not be all that different from current sensors.
 
But if they are fully made on 180nm, they are certainly going to match/beat the current 16mp Sony sensors.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2012, 11:04:20 PM by x-vision »

hmmm

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #116 on: November 18, 2012, 11:40:43 PM »

The 180nm process should start making appearances in DSLRs soon.
It appears that parts of the 6D sensor are already made on 180nm process, as vaguely confirmed by Canon Japan:
  • The newly developed CMOS sensor, introducing a process miniaturization in semiconductor process CMOS

It's interesting that Canon USA/Europe do not mention anything about that.

Based on the available info, though, I'd say that the 6D will end up having better image quality than the 5DIII.
Note that the rumors floating around are saying that only parts of the 6D sensor are made on 180nm.
So, the 6D sensor is essentially a 180nm/500nm hybrid.

The question is, are the new APS-C sensors from Canon going to be fully made on 180nm?
If they are 180nm/500nm hybrids, performance might not be all that different from current sensors.
 
But if they are fully made on 180nm, they are certainly going to match/beat the current 16mp Sony sensors.

Thanks - great find  -- there is a little blurb on Adorama saying:  "the sensor, which contains a new photodiode structure" ...  which also indicates something new to the sensor design, but that's a little vague.   Just what do "process miniaturization" and "new photodiode structure" mean to the design, exactly, anyway?   ???

It sounds promising: I'm looking forward to seeing some production 6D performance data.   Hopefully within a few weeks now.   

pedro

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #117 on: November 19, 2012, 04:07:52 AM »

Based on the available info, though, I'd say that the 6D will end up having better image quality than the 5DIII.
Note that the rumors floating around are saying that only parts of the 6D sensor are made on 180nm.
So, the 6D sensor is essentially a 180nm/500nm hybrid.

The question is, are the new APS-C sensors from Canon going to be fully made on 180nm?
If they are 180nm/500nm hybrids, performance might not be all that different from current sensors.
 
But if they are fully made on 180nm, they are certainly going to match/beat the current 16mp Sony sensors.
Without understanding too much of tech here, if that is the case with the 6D, a next 5D could be fully equipped with 180nm sensors. Which would yield more than an incremental upgrade, right? So if the thesis is right, even the next 5D might be called a dream cam again. I am currently in my 5D3 learning curve and the cam is fantastic. First time in 30 years I am back to fullframe again, and it reall rocks!

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #117 on: November 19, 2012, 04:07:52 AM »

jrista

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #118 on: November 19, 2012, 10:53:25 AM »
Canon produces back-side illuminated CMOS sensors with 1.5 micron pixels (equivalent to 24,000x16,000 = 384MP on full-frame) for its compact cameras. 

These are likely Sony sensors, as Canon does not have BSI technology.

Um, I beg to differ: http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/patent-large-back-illuminated-sensor/. Canon does have BSI technology, and for LARGE form factor sensors as well, FF and APS-C!

x-vision

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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #119 on: November 19, 2012, 11:57:37 AM »
... Canon does not have BSI technology.

Um, I beg to differ: http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/01/patent-large-back-illuminated-sensor/. Canon does have BSI technology, and for LARGE form factor sensors as well, FF and APS-C!

This is a patent, not an actual sensor.

Canon does not have any BSI sensors in production, as Lee Jay implied.


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Re: February & March are Announcement Months for Canon [CR2]
« Reply #119 on: November 19, 2012, 11:57:37 AM »