April 20, 2014, 02:57:08 AM

Author Topic: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement  (Read 13282 times)

wickidwombat

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 4034
    • View Profile
Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2012, 02:32:37 AM »
Neutral have you tried mixing this with other HDR techniques? say -2EV and +2EV then using enfuse to blend
so a total of 27 shots? 3 combined super clean files blended together I think there is lots of potential with adapting this technique. Thanks for the find I cant wait to give it a go
APS-H Fanboy

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #75 on: November 16, 2012, 02:32:37 AM »

Neutral

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #76 on: November 16, 2012, 02:32:56 AM »
So I activate mirror lock just  before ME shot sequence  (done automatically after camera focused on the subject)  and then deactivate it after ME shot sequence  (using SET button - selectable option in mirror lock function) or it is deactivated itself later by camera itself .
Unfortunately this is not supported by my 5DMkIII that's why I was wondering how you can do that. So it's only Live View for me  :(  (OK I know it is sufficient and actually a super set of Mirror Lock for this purpose but still ...)
  Actually mirror lock is not required – just an option to get better image sharpness – reducing camera vibrations and preventing refocusing for each ME shot in sequence.
If for first one nothing could be done with 5DM3 but for second one it is possible to focus automatically then switch lens to manual focus to keep focus unchanged during  ME sequence
Mirror lock is required for sharpness. There is no point in trying to lower the noise merely to induce camera shake. But is is achieved with LiveView. Anyway for shots on tripod - when it is getting dark - I use Mirror Lock and 2 second delay. Focusing is either AF and then turned to manual or Live View (with manual focus and 10x). So the only additional function is the Multiple Exposure (Mirror is Locked in LV).
I could not imagine that 5DM3 does not have similar as 1Dx option to keep mirror locked up for 30 seconds with early deactivation by SET button.
That’s good that you found a way for 5DM3 to keep mirror locked during ME sequence.
With that 5DM3 could have an edge over 1Dx for such kind of ME night/evening shots due to better sensor resolution.
   The only one thing I do not understand why Canon did not  do that as F/W feature with single button press as done in some other cameras (e.g. upcoming Sony DCS-RX1).  This is so simple to add that in F/W to give user easy way to cope with deep shadow noise issues at ISO100 for 1Dx and 5DM3.  They know the problem they know (I hope) how to deal with that so why not to make life easier to camera users who like night/evening shooting.
  It would be also interesting to see outcome of this noise averaging method on Nikon D800.
D800 could have up to 10 shots in ME sequence.  Combined with camera 36mpx sensor resolution and high DR outcome using this method could be really amazing (with good Hi-Res lens)

Neutral

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #77 on: November 16, 2012, 02:39:39 AM »
Neutral have you tried mixing this with other HDR techniques? say -2EV and +2EV then using enfuse to blend
so a total of 27 shots? 3 combined super clean files blended together I think there is lots of potential with adapting this technique. Thanks for the find I cant wait to give it a go
I did not try that  but I think this could be very interesting.
Known issue for HDR is increasing image noise.
So having virtually noise free images from camera using ME could help get cleaner and better HDR images. When I look at some HDR images posted around I frequently want to take wet tissue and wipe that noise away as this is causing pain for my eyes)))
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 02:43:29 AM by Neutral »

Neutral

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #78 on: November 16, 2012, 03:35:59 AM »
Neutral - thanks for the in-depth explanation - I'm anxious to try out your ME method...
As a matter of fact this is not my method  :)

This technique  was being used around for decades in different areas.

  I just was not very happy with 1Dx low ISO SNR performance  (as I like night/evening shooting)  and when saw that ME function in 1Dx – my first thought was that this could be workaround until we get new rumored Hi-Res camera that should bring some new sensor technologies.  I was tempting to buy Nikon D800 but thought that I can wait and do something with 1Dx.   

 Actually Multi-Exposure term is coming from old film times when in order  to mix together several  images you had to do multiple exposure from different frames on the same piece of photo paper.
Same functionality was main goal of introducing ME in digital cameras – and one of the application of this to catch phases of object movement in one shot - but there are also many other interesting artistic applications for that

Noise averaging using ME for improving SNR is just very useful side effect of this functionality.

And the other side effect which is also very useful -  is to simulate ND filter for long exposure.
Using ME method one will be getting much cleaner images than using ND filter to reduce amount of light into camera sensor.
If both are combined together (ND filter and ME method) you can get very interesting artistic effects due to ability to have very long exposures at day time.  I did not tried that yet but going to do so at some time.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2012, 03:40:01 AM by Neutral »

wickidwombat

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 4034
    • View Profile
Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #79 on: November 16, 2012, 06:52:30 AM »
Neutral have you tried mixing this with other HDR techniques? say -2EV and +2EV then using enfuse to blend
so a total of 27 shots? 3 combined super clean files blended together I think there is lots of potential with adapting this technique. Thanks for the find I cant wait to give it a go
I did not try that  but I think this could be very interesting.
Known issue for HDR is increasing image noise.
So having virtually noise free images from camera using ME could help get cleaner and better HDR images. When I look at some HDR images posted around I frequently want to take wet tissue and wipe that noise away as this is causing pain for my eyes)))
Lr enfuse doesn't make eye rending abominations like photomatix it takes the exposures and blends them so no noise gain anyway. I suspect in combination with your method it will enable some super clean files
APS-H Fanboy

Neutral

  • Rebel T5i
  • ****
  • Posts: 103
    • View Profile
Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2012, 10:12:21 AM »
Neutral have you tried mixing this with other HDR techniques? say -2EV and +2EV then using enfuse to blend
so a total of 27 shots? 3 combined super clean files blended together I think there is lots of potential with adapting this technique. Thanks for the find I cant wait to give it a go
I did not try that  but I think this could be very interesting.
Known issue for HDR is increasing image noise.
So having virtually noise free images from camera using ME could help get cleaner and better HDR images. When I look at some HDR images posted around I frequently want to take wet tissue and wipe that noise away as this is causing pain for my eyes)))
Lr enfuse doesn't make eye rending abominations like photomatix it takes the exposures and blends them so no noise gain anyway. I suspect in combination with your method it will enable some super clean files
I think this will definitely work as expected.
Will try that as well when have chance to do so.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: 1Dx ISO100 high DR shadows SNR improvement
« Reply #80 on: November 16, 2012, 10:12:21 AM »