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Author Topic: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera  (Read 11577 times)

sandymandy

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 06:13:25 PM »
There is Sony XEL for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_XEL-1

OLED is just not mainstream yet thats why u didnt hear much about it :)

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2012, 06:13:25 PM »

Mt Spokane Photography

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2012, 06:35:17 PM »
There is Sony XEL for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_XEL-1

OLED is just not mainstream yet thats why u didnt hear much about it :)
Sony released the small OLED TV about 3 years ago, high priced, and apparently either did not sell, or the technoloogy wasn't ready. Right now, Samsung is in the drivers seat with huge profits while Sony is borrowing money to develop their products.  There is going to be a big fallout coming, Sharp is almost dead, Panasonic and Sony are hurting badly.  Its not a good time to be producing TV sets that sell for below cost.
Sony has a long way to go if they want to convince professional photographers that they are serious. 
They have a reputation for dropping products and support for them, which really does make a pro wonder about their comittment to service of the product. 
There is no IQ advantage to mirrorless, its about size and weight.  If you have FF and have to use a lens adapter, the size and weight advantage mostly goes away.  If you put out a $3k FF point and shoot, it becomes obsolete after 3-5 years, and not a good place to put your money.  Bodies come and go, but good glass should last for 20 years or more. 

Woody

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #17 on: November 20, 2012, 01:08:46 AM »
The biggest problem with Sony interchangeable lens cameras now? Where are their E-mount lenses? Range is rather limited....

dr croubie

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2012, 01:25:24 AM »
1. When do you think the 1st FF mirrorless will arrive - for $3000 or less of course?

2. Which company will bring to the market first? Sony, Nikon, Samsung, Fujitsu etc….I will not bet on Canon

Lens Rentals will have M9's for 3000$. So, very soon.  ;D
;D Unless the question becomes  "When do you think the 1st FF AF mirrorless will arrive"  ;D

It's not that the M9 doesn't have AF, it barely even has MF for non-M-mount lenses that don't have a rangefinder coupling. (Of course, there's always "look at the scale and guesstimate with f/8", but if you're going to do that, I bought a Bessa L).

Now, how long will it take for the new M (ie M10) to come down to $3000? Even ex-rental like LR's M9s on sale?
I'd say that's more likely than a FF Mirrorless with a new shorter-flange and more compact-body.
We're more likely to see a FF mirrorless with a standard EF-mount 44mm-flange (like the Pentax K-01, but FF).

It's not that easy to make a FF sensor work with a shorter flange-distance like on NEX and m4/3. The Angle of Incidence is just too great, Leica made it work (just) with a fancy patented microlens thingummy and some firmware hacks (try seeing what happens when you put a Voigtlander Skopar 21mm on an M9, before and after the firmware-update that came out conveniently at the same time).

Mirrorless is the future, yes. But my predictions for the current near-future are definitely only aps-c in tiny-bodies, FF will always be for the big-bodies (mirror or not).
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jrista

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2012, 05:24:47 PM »
There is Sony XEL for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_XEL-1

OLED is just not mainstream yet thats why u didnt hear much about it :)

Well, it's no surprise no one knew about it. Its a joke...practically microscopic in size, with an oddball resolution, and a truly hideous design. If I was Sony, I wouldn't have even bothered releasing the thing. That's like being one of those idiots who always has to post "First" in every forum they come across...just to be...first. I'd barely qualify that thing as a TV, and while Sony may have been the first to market with some kind of OLED device that might possibly stand in as a TV for some dude somewhere in the world...its kind of a stretch. Give me a nice 52" HD TV with OLED technology that produces a better quality picture than LED technology does, and then you can call "FIRST!" :P
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bycostello

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2012, 08:58:24 PM »
ah.. you got me excited then i though it was here already....  considering how slow and how bad the M is i don't think it will be canon

tron

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2012, 07:22:20 AM »
Bodies come and go, but good glass should last for 20 years or more.
+100000  :)

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2012, 07:22:20 AM »

RobPan

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2012, 07:57:28 AM »
[Bodies come and go, but good glass should last for 20 years or more. ]

Hmmm... my body is already over 73 years old. My glasses, however are about one year old and will need replacement in around two years time.



tron

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2012, 09:12:00 AM »
[Bodies come and go, but good glass should last for 20 years or more. ]

Hmmm... my body is already over 73 years old. My glasses, however are about one year old and will need replacement in around two years time.
;D  ;D I guess the glasses are not "L" though...

Dylan777

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2012, 10:40:07 AM »
ah.. you got me excited then i though it was here already....  considering how slow and how bad the M is i don't think it will be canon

Sorry about that ;)
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Edwin Herdman

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #25 on: November 21, 2012, 06:34:32 PM »
Remember Canon's SedTVs?  Yeah, somebody carried the first (real) SedTV to an event for Canon, too.  It won't arrive on store shelves soon, if ever, of course, since they essentially dropped the technology.
Bodies come and go, but good glass should last for 20 years or more.
+100000  :)
I guess most of my glass is ready for an update then (and I wouldn't complain - especially with the 50mm)...
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 06:36:06 PM by Edwin Herdman »

wickidwombat

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #26 on: November 21, 2012, 07:11:25 PM »
Bodies come and go, but good glass should last for 20 years or more.
+100000  :)

too true, for example the 600 f4.5 FD lens i got in perfect condition still has great image quality even on 5Dmk2 mk3 and the crop of the EOS M so it would seem these good quality old lenses are capable of resolving and producing nice images.
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ageha

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2012, 09:20:12 PM »
There is Sony XEL for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_XEL-1

OLED is just not mainstream yet thats why u didnt hear much about it :)

Well, it's no surprise no one knew about it. Its a joke...practically microscopic in size, with an oddball resolution, and a truly hideous design. If I was Sony, I wouldn't have even bothered releasing the thing. That's like being one of those idiots who always has to post "First" in every forum they come across...just to be...first. I'd barely qualify that thing as a TV, and while Sony may have been the first to market with some kind of OLED device that might possibly stand in as a TV for some dude somewhere in the world...its kind of a stretch. Give me a nice 52" HD TV with OLED technology that produces a better quality picture than LED technology does, and then you can call "FIRST!" :P
Why would anyone buy an OLED TV? The lifespan is too short, doesn't make any sense. Otherwise you would have seen bigger OLED TVs already.

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #27 on: November 21, 2012, 09:20:12 PM »

CharlieB

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #28 on: November 21, 2012, 11:16:12 PM »
1. When do you think the 1st FF mirrorless will arrive - for $3000 or less of course?

2. Which company will bring to the market first? Sony, Nikon, Samsung, Fujitsu etc….I will not bet on Canon

It is over twice that price, and its made by Leica.  Its called the M9.

sarangiman

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2012, 11:31:34 PM »
I work at Sony Electronics. :)

Yea we've got FF Mirrorless already.

We're often times the first to market or very early to market. I remember announcing the world's lightest laptop 6 months before the first macbook air. Even after the launch of the AIR our's was still the thinnest and lightest but did anyone know haha? I remember carrying the world's first OLED TV to a convention in Las Vegas. We never advertised it though, the images were stunning and the design was sleek. 2 years later Samsung made a huge TV ad campaign and without saying it made it sound like they were the first to make the OLED TVs. And their TV was IDENTICAL to our aesthetically, they basically took our tv and rebadged it as a samsung. I think that's my biggest frustration with this company. We don't advertise anything and unless you're really looking for a product you would never know we made it. I'm so tired of watching great products get launch with zero visibility.

Just wanted to release some steam about the biggest issue that irks me about Sony. Other than that the company is awesome, they treat us real well, we get good discounts and the work culture here is great (I knew a few people who worked at Samsung that we're very happy).

Hi Minh,

I must say I agree with you re: your advertisement comments. For example:

  • The Sony RX100 has a bounce flash built into it. Really sets it apart from other P&S cameras (save for an Olympus one; I can't remember the model). Why wasn't this advertised? It's not even listed as a feature at all on the official features/specs page!
  • Sony makes the world's best CMOS sensors. Why not flaunt this for the Sony cameras that have this high dynamic range/low noise? Some of Sony's sensors are practically ready for the ISO-less revolution (if it ever comes)!
  • Whatever happened to that really cool 84" projection screen that was matched to reflect the RGB primaries of a paired projector while rejecting all other wavelengths? Such a cool idea... a prototype was demonstrated years ago... never heard anything else about it.

I love the fact that you guys make & push cool new technology horizons. It can often be high risk (RX1, e.g., albeit that's probably a stepping stone to another product coming soon...), but can be highly rewarding. For those of us that care about quality, I must say I, for one, really appreciate the work Sony's doing. Be it Blu-Ray, 4k, SXRD, high DR/low read noise CMOS sensors, 1" sensor pocketable P&S (RX100 was one of Time's top 25 inventions of 2012!!), the list goes on.

Never considered myself a fanboy of any company... but Sony comes close.

Just don't get me started on the subpar lenses Sony's been putting on its HW30/HW50 line of projectors... good grief. Why take a great tech like SXRD & mar it like that!

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Re: !!!FIRST!!! - Full Frame Mirrorless Camera
« Reply #29 on: November 21, 2012, 11:31:34 PM »