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Author Topic: 7D vs 5D2???  (Read 5841 times)

houston1852

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7D vs 5D2???
« on: November 20, 2012, 03:29:20 PM »
I'm sure this has been covered a dozen times before but I'm really struggling to make a decision.  I want to upgrade from my T2I but I still plan on using it extensively.  I shoot mainly wildlife, old buildings, anything in nature.  I currently own a canon 10-22, 24-70v1, 100-400L and 1 of my favorites, the 100 macro.  I love the extended reach of having a crop sensor so I was leaning towards the 7D (although I do not shoot sports).  I think all of these lenses minus the 24/70 tell me to go 7D.  I think I would miss that extra reach if I went with the 5D2, but I do like the thought of better low light capabilities.  I feel I'm a little limited on the crop sensor with my 24-70 but I can always back up. I was discussing my dilemma with a friend and he suggested a 5D2 with a 1.4 extender.  Would that somewhat equal out the reach id be losing by switching to full frame?  I would love any help on this.

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7D vs 5D2???
« on: November 20, 2012, 03:29:20 PM »

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2012, 03:37:48 PM »
The 5D2 for wildlife is fine as long as it isn't birding but you will miss the extra reach. The 7D is a much better choice but I feel like its a bad time to buy a 7D. The 7D2 feels like its right around the corner and you could always make due with the t2i.

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2012, 03:44:08 PM »
I'm sure this has been covered a dozen times before

Indeed ... but I can understand that these decisions are not easy so asking again is tempting :->

Except for absolutely stellar tele primes extenders are for occasional use and not for "always on" because they heavily depend on the iq of the base lens - the 100-400L isn't a promising choice for this and it'll be f8 which has af problems (I can tell, I've got the 70-300L which is sharper). That's why most budget wildlife shooters who want tracking and fast fps are on the 7d - the alternative is about $5000-$10000 more.

Upgrading from the 550d->7d with the same sensor also doesn't seem that smart to me unless you get a very good deal ... better wait for the 7d2 or 70d with probably a better sensor that'll solve your problem.

Btw: You should get a Kenko 1.4x anyway for even on crop, it's very nice on the macro :-)

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2012, 04:00:14 PM »
Upgrading from the 550d->7d with the same sensor also doesn't seem that smart to me unless you get a very good deal ... better wait for the 7d2 or 70d with probably a better sensor that'll solve your problem.

+1.

I'd also add that it's important to consider what you do with the images you capture.  Do you print them large?  Submit them to magazines or contests which have a minimum MP requirement for the final image?  Here's the thing...if you take an image with the same focal length and lens from the same distance with the 5DII vs. 7D, then crop the resulting 5DII image to the framing of the 7D, what you'll have is an image with IQ that's pretty much a wash with the 7D.  With minimal processing, the 7D image is a little sharper, the 5DII image has a little less noise - and of course, you can trade the sharpness for the noise and vice versa...a wash.  Thus, the main difference is that with the 7D you have 18 MP, and with the 5DII you have 8 MP.  If 8 MP is sufficient for your needs (~12x18 prints and smaller), then the 7D has no reach advantage.  Where the 7D does have an advantage over the 5DII is in AF performance and frame rate.  But...the 5DII will be slightly better than your T2i in terms of AF and frame rate.  If you don't need to crop the image, the 5DII will deliver much better IQ and much better high ISO performance.

So...I'd say ignore the crop factor 'reach'.  If the AF and frame rate of your T2i are good enough for your shooting, getting the 5DII is your best option.  But if you feel you'd benefit more from better AF and a faster frame rate, the 7D is great.
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DCM1024

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2012, 04:16:35 PM »
I have previously owned the T2i (which I loved) and now own the 7D and 5D2. I found my 7D to be one stop better for ISO than the T2i, and would probably go with the 7D to get the faster frame rate for wildlife (or wait for a 7D2). I prefer my 5D2 to the 7D for the types of photos I shoot (portrait, boudoir, wedding plus some of 'whatever', but nothing requiring the FPS of AF capability of the 7D).

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2012, 04:17:15 PM »
Thus, the main difference is that with the 7D you have 18 MP, and with the 5DII you have 8 MP.

Help me out here, neuro. My 5DmkII has way more than 8MP...it's 21.1.  What do you mean by 8MP?

n/m, I see what you're doing. However, I usually don't crop my photos like that. If I need to zoom in, I either get closer to my subject or increase my focal length. Or both.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2012, 04:22:10 PM by EOBeav »
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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 04:22:11 PM »
I found my 7D to be one stop better for ISO than the T2

... um, but, but, they have the same sensor?! And looking at sample shots the 7d is probably worse because it has higher banding due to the dual readout channels.

Thus, the main difference is that with the 7D you have 18 MP, and with the 5DII you have 8 MP.
Help me out here, neuro. My 5DmkII has way more than 8MP...it's 21.1.  What do you mean by 8MP?

Let me interpret what our good Dr. Neuro is trying to say, it was a rather large textblock which tends to confuse people :-p ... if you crop back the 21mp shot to match the 1.6x crop factor, then there are 8mp left - if that's all you need you're ok with ff over crop because the iq is similar in this case (sharpness vs iso noise). I hope I've got it right :-p

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2012, 04:22:11 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2012, 04:25:11 PM »
Thus, the main difference is that with the 7D you have 18 MP, and with the 5DII you have 8 MP.
Help me out here, neuro. My 5DmkII has way more than 8MP...it's 21.1.  What do you mean by 8MP?

The 7D is a 'crop sensor' - that means it samples only a small portion of the FF image circle.  That's the basis of the 'reach' argument for APS-C (red is FF, blue is APS-C):



If you crop the 5DII image down to the field of view of the 7D (e.g. crop the red image to the blue image, above), you'd be left with 8 MP of your original 21 MP. 
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2012, 04:29:25 PM »
n/m, I see what you're doing. However, I usually don't crop my photos like that. If I need to zoom in, I either get closer to my subject or increase my focal length. Or both.

Right.  But what if you're already shooting with a 100-400mm lens at 400mm, and if you walk any closer to the bird or wild critter, it will fly/run away?  You could do what I did - get a 600mm lens to use on your FF camera.  But buying a $13,000 lens to get a longer focal length is not a realistic option for everyone.  400mm is a pretty hard limit if you like autofocus, with the forthcoming exception of 560mm/600mm on the 5DIII (400mm f/5.6 with a 1.4x TC or 300mm f/4 with a 2x TC).. and even that exception is a lot more $ than the OP is talking about, from what I can tell, since the 5DIII was not on the table for discussion.
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gmrza

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2012, 05:28:57 PM »
I'm sure this has been covered a dozen times before

Indeed ... but I can understand that these decisions are not easy so asking again is tempting :->

Except for absolutely stellar tele primes extenders are for occasional use and not for "always on" because they heavily depend on the iq of the base lens - the 100-400L isn't a promising choice for this and it'll be f8 which has af problems (I can tell, I've got the 70-300L which is sharper). That's why most budget wildlife shooters who want tracking and fast fps are on the 7d - the alternative is about $5000-$10000 more.

Upgrading from the 550d->7d with the same sensor also doesn't seem that smart to me unless you get a very good deal ... better wait for the 7d2 or 70d with probably a better sensor that'll solve your problem.

Btw: You should get a Kenko 1.4x anyway for even on crop, it's very nice on the macro :-)

I agree with the view to avoid buying another crop frame camera, if you already have one of the bodies which has an 18MP sensor.  All the indications are that Canon's crop sensors are due for a refresh next year, so if you want to stay on crop, it may be better to hold out for one of the new bodies coming out next year.

Apart from hopefully having a better sensor, the replacement for the 7D would have better integration with some of Canon's latest accessories, like the Speedlite 600-EX-RT - for instance, only bodies of 2012 vintage or later integrate 100% with the use of the colour-correction gels supplied with the 600-EX-RT.  The 7D also requires a USB cable connection to integrate with a GPS receiver. - If any of these features mean anything to you, it may be another reason to wait.
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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #10 on: November 20, 2012, 05:29:59 PM »
I'm sure this has been covered a dozen times before but I'm really struggling to make a decision.  I want to upgrade from my T2I but I still plan on using it extensively.  I shoot mainly wildlife, old buildings, anything in nature.  I currently own a canon 10-22, 24-70v1, 100-400L and 1 of my favorites, the 100 macro.  I love the extended reach of having a crop sensor so I was leaning towards the 7D (although I do not shoot sports).  I think all of these lenses minus the 24/70 tell me to go 7D.  I think I would miss that extra reach if I went with the 5D2, but I do like the thought of better low light capabilities.  I feel I'm a little limited on the crop sensor with my 24-70 but I can always back up. I was discussing my dilemma with a friend and he suggested a 5D2 with a 1.4 extender.  Would that somewhat equal out the reach id be losing by switching to full frame?  I would love any help on this.

a 1d mark iii would a better upgrade path
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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2012, 05:45:38 PM »
Apart from hopefully having a better sensor, the replacement for the 7D would have better integration with some of Canon's latest accessories, like the Speedlite 600-EX-RT - for instance, only bodies of 2012 vintage or later integrate 100% with the use of the colour-correction gels supplied with the 600-EX-RT. 

That's the first time I've heard that's an issue, and many 600rt users wrote that Canon's gels are crap anyway and use other gels - which aren't calibrated even with the newest and shiniest 2012 bodies.

The 7D also requires a USB cable connection to integrate with a GPS receiver. - If any of these features mean anything to you, it may be another reason to wait.

Unless you want to log the direction the camera is pointing at just get a $40 external gps logger that lasts 24h w/o draining your eos battery, is very precise and keeps logging if the camera is off. And if you attach the data to the files later on you get the added value that with geosetter the real location names are written into the exif data.

houston1852

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 06:04:18 PM »
I'm basically looking for a new camera so I can carry 2 bodies with me to limit the amount of lens changes I have to make.  I've had my t2I for maybe 3yrs and have always been happy with it.  I've just recently gotten more into it as a more serious hobby. I bought all of those lenses last spring.  I just figured as my skills gradually improve and I want a 2nd body anyway I should try to upgrade on it (I have a few friends who never shoot outside of automatic yet they're using t2i's).  The 5D3 is out of my price range.  I'm thinking $2000 tops.


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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2012, 06:04:18 PM »

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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #13 on: November 20, 2012, 06:33:15 PM »
Right.  But what if you're already shooting with a 100-400mm lens at 400mm, and if you walk any closer to the bird or wild critter, it will fly/run away?  You could do what I did - get a 600mm lens to use on your FF camera.  But buying a $13,000 lens to get a longer focal length is not a realistic option for everyone.  400mm is a pretty hard limit if you like autofocus, with the forthcoming exception of 560mm/600mm on the 5DIII (400mm f/5.6 with a 1.4x TC or 300mm f/4 with a 2x TC).. and even that exception is a lot more $ than the OP is talking about, from what I can tell, since the 5DIII was not on the table for discussion.

Got it. I guess it's all in what you need. My subjects are generally things that don't fly away (like creeks, waterfalls, and people), so I guess I won't be trading in for a 7D any time soon.
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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 06:36:32 PM »
I'm basically looking for a new camera so I can carry 2 bodies with me to limit the amount of lens changes I have to make.  I've had my t2I for maybe 3yrs and have always been happy with it.  I've just recently gotten more into it as a more serious hobby. I bought all of those lenses last spring.  I just figured as my skills gradually improve and I want a 2nd body anyway I should try to upgrade on it (I have a few friends who never shoot outside of automatic yet they're using t2i's).  The 5D3 is out of my price range.  I'm thinking $2000 tops.

What kind of glass do you have? When I was still shooting with a Rebel, I filled out my focal length needs with Canon L lenses. Only after that did I improve my camera body by moving to a 5DmkII. 
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Re: 7D vs 5D2???
« Reply #14 on: November 20, 2012, 06:36:32 PM »