November 25, 2014, 06:36:50 PM

Poll

For what reasons do you want a FF mirrorless on the market?

It will be smaller, thinner, lighter than my current DSLR, something I can put in my pocket (like a NEX/EOS-M)
26 (28.9%)
I want a shorter Flange-distance so I can use my collection of FD/FL/Rangefinder glass on digital FF (and can't afford a Leica M)
5 (5.6%)
I only ever use Live-View / shoot videos, so a mirror is pointless
3 (3.3%)
Taking away the mirror means less mechanics to break, and less cost
3 (3.3%)
I want one, but only when contrast-based or phase-in-sensor AF is as fast as phase-detect-via-mirror AF
17 (18.9%)
I probably won't get one, at least not straight away, but i'm a gear-head and will sleep better knowing one exists somewhere (besides the Leica M)
4 (4.4%)
I'd buy a Leica M if I could afford one, but having AF (no matter how slow) with my current EF lenses would be better
6 (6.7%)
I don't want an FF mirrorless, they'll always be too expensive for me (presumably so will DSLR-sized FF)
3 (3.3%)
I don't want an FF mirrorless, I'd rather my EOS-M/NEX-sized APS-C and FF in DSLR-sized 6/5/1D bodies
23 (25.6%)

Total Members Voted: 90

Author Topic: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?  (Read 8698 times)

Mt Spokane Photography

  • EF 50mm F 0.7 IS
  • *********
  • Posts: 9162
    • View Profile
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2012, 12:52:23 PM »
if the cost is much less and does most of the things of a 5d why not? lighter, smaller - for travelling is perfect.
What would cost less?
The body will cost more, and the lenses will cost more.  Thats why no one is making a interchangable lens mirrorless.  AF is also much slower for cameras with large sensors.  The cameras with tiny sensors have fast AF, but it gets slower as the sensor size increases.  Much of this is due to the huge depth of field with a small sensor.  AF does not have to be very accurate to have the subject in sharp focus.

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #30 on: November 23, 2012, 12:52:23 PM »

RLPhoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3522
  • Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #31 on: November 23, 2012, 01:47:23 PM »
I would like a Leica styled camera with a FF sensor. AF would be nice if possible.

If canon could do another Canon 7 camera, I'd buy one.

dr croubie

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1400
  • Too many photos, too little time.
    • View Profile
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #32 on: December 16, 2013, 08:40:20 PM »
1 year on, I thought I'd resurrect this thread, now that we have the A7R available.
Whose predictions came true?
Too much gear, too little space.
Gear Photos

AvTvM

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1099
    • View Profile
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #33 on: December 17, 2013, 04:37:21 AM »
Excellent progress compared to last year I'd say. :-)

In one sentence: First ultra-compact, well-specced, hi-IQ mirrorless FF cameras available ... at surprisingly affordable prices. :-)

In more words:
  • Two mirrorless FF-sensored cameras available
  • Very attractive pricing on A7 and A7R
  • Excellent sensors, one model with (arguably) best sensor (res, DR) on market
  • Ultra-compact and light bodies, solid build
  • Useable fps and AF ... but not at DSLR level; no tracking, not for action
  • Very decent EVF ... but still XGA (not "retina"); still some lag; blackout between shots
  • Very decent feature set, UI, controls, ergonomics, WiFi
  • no in-body IS
  • no built-in flash
  • Poor battery charge
  • Shutter disappointing - mechanical, noisy, no silent mode, no high X-sync speed
  • two compact & light Zeiss primes available at launch - optically excellent, but not cheap
  • Kit-zoom available - not as small and good as hoped for, but reasonably low priced
  • Better Zeiss-Zoom 24-70/4 coming up soon
  • Adapters available, many brands/sorts of lenses usable
  • ...
  • Sony has delivered and seems set to deliver more ... see lens roadmap
  • Canon and Nikon still firm asleep at the wheel.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 09:42:48 AM by AvTvM »

RLPhoto

  • Canon EF 300mm f/2.8L IS II
  • *******
  • Posts: 3522
  • Gear doesn't matter, Just a Matter of Convenience.
    • View Profile
    • My Portfolio
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #34 on: December 17, 2013, 09:34:07 AM »
Excellent progress compared to last year I'd say. :-)

In one sentence: First ultra-compact, well-specced, hi-IQ mirrorless FF cameras available ... at surprisingly affordable prices. :-)

In more words:
  • Two mirrorless FF-sensored cameras available
  • Very attractive pricing on A7 and A7R
  • Excellent sensors, one model with (arguably) best sensor (res, DR) on market
  • Ultra-compact and light bodies, solid build
  • Useable fps and AF ... but not at DSLR level; no tracking, not for action
  • Very decent EVF ... but still XGA (not "retina"); still some lag; blackout between shots
  • Very decent feature set, UI, controls, ergonomics, WiFi
  • no in-body IS
  • no built-in flash
  • Poor battery charge
  • Shutters disappointing - mechanical, noisy, no silent mode, no high X-sync speed
  • two compact & light Zeiss primes available at launch - optically excellent, but not cheap
  • Kit-zoom available - not as small and good as hoped for, but reasonably low priced
  • Better Zeiss-Zoom 24-70/4 coming up soon
  • Adapters available, many brands/sorts of lenses usable
  • ...
  • Sony has delivered and set to deliver more ... see lens roadmap
  • Canon and Nikon still firm asleep at the wheel.

I wanted to like the A7 but my issues are

1. Sync speed. I need all I can get and do lots of flash.
2. Lens selection
3. First gen product
4. Lack of speed lite options.

I thought I'd make it my minimalist strobist cam but it's too early to jump into another system.

9VIII

  • 5D Mark III
  • ******
  • Posts: 666
    • View Profile
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #35 on: December 17, 2013, 03:13:26 PM »
I voted in the "doesn't use mirror" category. Basically everything other than the 400f5.6 is MF only or would be fine with contrast detect AF.
-100% RAW-

Hillsilly

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 789
    • View Profile
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2013, 03:04:31 AM »
A FF mirrorless camera will never be a performance beast.  So why bother trying?  A great sensor and EVF, with "ok" AF, maybe 3fps and 1/4000 shutter speed in a tiny (eos-M sized?) body and a low $1,000 to $1,500 price and I'd be happy.

Last year I would have been very excited about the new Sony cameras.  But now, I'm strangely unmoved.  I've recently bought into the Fuji X system and I'm really liking that decision.   As the Sony's aren't so well specc'd (or reviewed) that I'd consider dumping my Canon or Fuji gear, I can't see myself picking one up in the foreseeable future.  A FF Canon mirrorless camera might be a different story.
Camera Obscura

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2013, 03:04:31 AM »

AvTvM

  • 1D X
  • *******
  • Posts: 1099
    • View Profile
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2013, 03:39:30 AM »
Where do you think, will we be a year from now [year end 2014] regarding mirrorless FF?

I'll boldly go first:
  • Sony Alpha A8/R announced; 10 native Sony, SonyZeiss FE lenses available; A7 lowest street price USD 999 and A7R @ 1499
  • Canon - "development announcement" out
  • Nikon - "development announcement" out
  • Sigma - non-Bayer FF mirrorless available
  • Fuji - announcement out
  • Hasselblad - "Solar" and "Solar R" available at USD/€ 10,000 and 15,000 - with wooden grips
:-)

join in and we'll re-visit the thread a year from now!  ;D

Hillsilly

  • 1D Mark IV
  • ******
  • Posts: 789
    • View Profile
Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2013, 05:05:14 AM »
I love crystal ball gazing.  Where will we be in twelve months: -

I think most manufacturers will release fixed lens FF mirrorless cameras.  I certainly think that is Fuji's intention and I wouldn't be surprised if Canon and Nikon follow suit.  Canon's entry will resemble a vintage Canonet.  It will be a sales success.  In relation to interchangeable lens cameras, in addition to the EOS M3, Canon will release a highly specc'd EOS M3 Pro.  Both will use APS-C sensors.  The EOS M3 Pro might even be sold outside of Japan.

Pentax might be the odd one out and might announce a mirrorless system.  They've developed a strong APS-C following.  For years they've been saying that APS-C is good enough (...which it is), but there is a strong interest in FF cameras amongst their users.  A mirrorless system will allow the move into FF without disenfranchising their existing customers.  Pentax will walk away from retail.  Instead, you'll buy the camera directly from them online.  Taking some ideas from Ricoh, Pentax will design their camera in a modular fashion and users will have many different options to choose from.  You'll customise the camera at the time of ordering.  It won't be a huge success, but people will like the idea.

To the dismay of Pentax users, there won't be a Pentax FF DSLR.  Pentax will make the decision that they can't easily compete with Canon and Nikon (and Sony) as they don't have the resources to quickly develop an extensive range of lenses and accessories that most DSLR users would demand.   However, they will be able to develop a simple mirrorless system with only a handful of lenses.

Olympus will also announce a FF system.  They will use a mount which enables M43 lenses to be used (in crop mode) which will make current Olympus photographers very happy.  They will have also developed improvements to phase detect AF.  The Olympus model will be a very responsive camera.  Maybe not ready for birds in flight, but few will complain about AF speed.

The price of all of these cameras will fall in the $1400-$1700 range.  That's the new FF battleground.  Most people who have used a good crop camera in recent years will wonder what the point is, especially now that the widest aperture, maximum background blur look is getting a little dated.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 05:27:28 AM by Hillsilly »
Camera Obscura

canon rumors FORUM

Re: Why do you want a FF Mirrorless?
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2013, 05:05:14 AM »