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Author Topic: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII  (Read 11549 times)

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 06:54:56 PM »
I still disagree.  It's still an issue of needs vs wants.  I'm not trying to say that saving special moments isn't important, but - there is a clear difference between you hanging with you grandpa (and please do realize I'm not minimizing how important that is to you), as opposed to hiring a a photographer to come shoot you and your grandpa.  The hired photog NEEDs the backup, because that is his/her job.  You WANT the image. 

So...all those photogs who shot weddings with a 5DII, 5D...or ~gasp~ film...were not doing their job?  It's as much of a WANT for a hired photog.  This is sounding a little like M.ST's statement in another thread, "You donĀ“t need a FF camera for private use."  If it's a critical shot, it's a critical shot - regardless of whether or not you're getting paid for it.

Neuro --- I get that and totally agree.   And I am not totally disagreeing with gino either - I agree that  dual cards is desirable - what i don't agree with is that its a deal breaker necessity for the causal consumer user.  I also agree with this too ---
"Now, do you get the picture of why I think a 2nd memory card slot is so important....you can't replace the moment of when a photo is taken!  This has nothing to do with 'Pro' vs. amateur features!"

Not really no, give lots of people two card slot options and half the time most will only use one anyway, for those that do use both slots I would expect a large percentage of the time they will have the write to card options configured to not duplicate anyway! Writing to two cards hits write speed so affects burst number and speed, not necessarily initially, but once the buffer is close to full it sure can take some time to write all that info out again, twice.

Further, I would only take a stab at numbers but as for card failure, I'd put camera loss and theft, people losing the actual card, or a multitude of other factors as having a bigger impact on image loss. Sh*t happens, there is a very good reason that big productions shoot tethered and make on the fly backups.

Again, I am not arguing the idea that dual cards are desirable, just that it's a super important feature to the general consumer - where it may be a deal breaker to a pro who wants to backup their files as they shoot. 
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2012, 06:54:56 PM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2012, 06:59:36 PM »
@ Chuck - makes perfect sense, thanks!
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Myth

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2012, 07:34:24 PM »
Interestingly I received a photographic trade magazine today and the most notable thing is the omission of all mention of the 5D MKII !!

 :'(

Gino

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2012, 08:05:11 PM »
So answer this question, do you ever back-up your computer to make sure you don't lose the important files/photos you have saved???  Having a 2nd memory card slot is the same thing when it comes to a camera!  I guess we're not going to agree on the importance of having back-up files! 

My point is from a retail price standpoint, I'd much rather have a camera with a 2nd memory card slot and pop-up flash vs. a camera that had one card slot and no pop-up flash, but had GPS and WiFi.  If you talk about the "wants v. needs", how many people really need GPS and WiFi? 

Also, I don't think most people who own a DSLR bought it because they wanted the video feature, so it is also a feature that Canon could of left out of the 6D, and that would have kept down the cost.....it would have drove those that wanted video toward the 5D MKIII.
Canon 1D X & 5D MK III | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 70-300L | 24-105 f/4L | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 50 f/1.4 | 40 f/2.8 STM Pancake | Sigma 35 f/1.4 DG HSM | Speedlite 220EX | Speedlite 600EX-RT

Gino

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2012, 08:10:17 PM »
So answer this question, do you ever back-up your computer to make sure you don't lose the important files/photos you have saved???  Having a 2nd memory card slot is the same thing when it comes to a camera!  I guess we're not going to agree on the importance of having back-up files! 

My point is from a retail price standpoint, I'd much rather have a camera with a 2nd memory card slot and pop-up flash vs. a camera that had one card slot and no pop-up flash, but had GPS and WiFi.  If you talk about the "wants v. needs", how many people really need GPS and WiFi? 

Also, I don't think most people who own a DSLR bought it because they wanted the video feature, so it is also a feature that Canon could of left out of the 6D, and that would have kept down the cost.....it would have drove those that wanted video toward the 5D MKIII.

When it's all said and done, Nikon delivered what I wanted in the D600 with the dual memory card slots and pop-up flash for the same price as the 6D, and that is why I purchased the D600. 
Canon 1D X & 5D MK III | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 70-300L | 24-105 f/4L | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 50 f/1.4 | 40 f/2.8 STM Pancake | Sigma 35 f/1.4 DG HSM | Speedlite 220EX | Speedlite 600EX-RT

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2012, 08:48:17 PM »
Pictures lost from NOT having dual slots in last 2 years - none.

Pictures lost from external hard drive and stupidness - plenty!

I now make 2 back-ups after a shoot, one on laptop the other on external. Then I keep the data on memory card until the day before next shoot. This method has served me well.

If I had dual slots - I'd use them to take more shots without the need to change cards.
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dunkers

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2012, 09:16:10 PM »
The two things that the 6D is lacking that I think are important to a amateur/prosumer photographer are a second memory card slot and a pop-up flash.  I just purchased a Nikon D600 for my father, rather than the 6D, because the D600 had the second memory card slot and a pop-up flash.

I could care less about WiFi and GPS....and video for that matter!  I think Canon should have designed this camera geared toward purely still photography, and left out the video, which would have kept down the retail price and Canon might have been able to price it around $1,500.  The Nikon D700 doesn't have video, and look at how many still love that camera!


I agree regarding the pop-up flash. However, the only reason I want one on my 5D3 is to be able to use it a wireless trigger. Other than that, I see little to no value to it.

As for the secondary card slot...
I don't see why people are complaining so much about it. I have a CF card and an SD in my 5D3, but I never use em both at the same time. I did once, and regretted it during post processing.
I only use the SD card when my CF card runs out of space.

Wifi on the other hand,
Nikon sees the potential of including that technology. In the commercial for the new D3200, they advertised their wifi dongle to go with it. The first guy I met using a D600 (before it became widely available), showed off the wireless dongle to me as one of the features he liked about it. It is a great feature to have when shooting sports b/c you don't have to buy an Eye-fi card to send the photos wirelessly to your computer.  His D600 had some kind of compartment on the strap to house the wireless dongle.

Not to mention that a LOT of people out there take pictures and then post them to Facebook, flickr, etc. Canon is going to release a phone app (for iOS and Android) that allows you to control your DSLR with your phone. The phone can function as a wireless release and even upload the your camera's photos online without the need to download them to your computer.

The real kicker would be if you can use your phone as a wifi hotspot. That means you can post the pictures ANYWHERE that you have cell reception.  I can see lots of teenagers and young adults using this feature to upload their photos to facebook and whatnot.
5D3 | 60D | 100L IS | 70-200L II IS | 24-105L

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2012, 09:16:10 PM »

Gino

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2012, 09:35:05 PM »
The two things that the 6D is lacking that I think are important to a amateur/prosumer photographer are a second memory card slot and a pop-up flash.  I just purchased a Nikon D600 for my father, rather than the 6D, because the D600 had the second memory card slot and a pop-up flash.

I could care less about WiFi and GPS....and video for that matter!  I think Canon should have designed this camera geared toward purely still photography, and left out the video, which would have kept down the retail price and Canon might have been able to price it around $1,500.  The Nikon D700 doesn't have video, and look at how many still love that camera!


I agree regarding the pop-up flash. However, the only reason I want one on my 5D3 is to be able to use it a wireless trigger. Other than that, I see little to no value to it.

As for the secondary card slot...
I don't see why people are complaining so much about it. I have a CF card and an SD in my 5D3, but I never use em both at the same time. I did once, and regretted it during post processing.
I only use the SD card when my CF card runs out of space.

Wifi on the other hand,
Nikon sees the potential of including that technology. In the commercial for the new D3200, they advertised their wifi dongle to go with it. The first guy I met using a D600 (before it became widely available), showed off the wireless dongle to me as one of the features he liked about it. It is a great feature to have when shooting sports b/c you don't have to buy an Eye-fi card to send the photos wirelessly to your computer.  His D600 had some kind of compartment on the strap to house the wireless dongle.

Not to mention that a LOT of people out there take pictures and then post them to Facebook, flickr, etc. Canon is going to release a phone app (for iOS and Android) that allows you to control your DSLR with your phone. The phone can function as a wireless release and even upload the your camera's photos online without the need to download them to your computer.

The real kicker would be if you can use your phone as a wifi hotspot. That means you can post the pictures ANYWHERE that you have cell reception.  I can see lots of teenagers and young adults using this feature to upload their photos to facebook and whatnot.

Yeah, WiFi might be a good idea for an entry level DSLR or point and shoot, but I don't see a lot of teenagers and young adults buying $2,000+ DSLR bodies, and I doubt most people that buy a $2,000+ body will post their photos on the internet without processing the RAW files on their computer first. 
Canon 1D X & 5D MK III | 24-70 f/2.8L II | 70-200 f/2.8L IS II | 70-300L | 24-105 f/4L | 100 f/2.8L Macro IS | 50 f/1.4 | 40 f/2.8 STM Pancake | Sigma 35 f/1.4 DG HSM | Speedlite 220EX | Speedlite 600EX-RT

Gino

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2012, 10:01:29 PM »
That is because you are thinking inside the box, start to think outside it and suddenly you have full control over remote cameras on your phone with real time sensor readout for $2,000. I'd get a couple for weddings, think remotes in blimps (soundproof boxes not airships!), just imagine the images we could take that we can't currently, heck some churches still ban photography completely because of the intrusion, we will be freed from all that at a new price point. Also concerts, no more three song nonsense, I can set up a couple of remotes and fire away, adjust camera settings, get playback etc, I can't wait.

I understand the idea of having all those nice features, but they should be in the 5D MarkIII. In my opinion, Canon could have left out many of those "nice to have" features in the 6D, so they could price it around $1,500....that is all I'm saying.

I really don't see Canon having strong sales in the 6D priced at $2,099....especially since you can now get a 5D Mark III for around $2,700.  Plus, you can find great deals on the Nikon D600....I purchased an open box from Crutchfield for $1,800!
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 10:06:03 PM by Gino »
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darrellrhodesmiller

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2012, 10:05:44 PM »
the wifi option in this camera isnt just meant for just uploading pics to the web.. much like the gopro helmet cams, you can completely control the camera from a remote or from your smart phone. you can set and control every aspect of the camera from it. It could be an incredibly powerful feature if Canon ever opened up the SDK (software  development kit) to software developers. If they were to ever do that, a developer could write an application for a computer or smart phone that could completely control the camera and add new modes of shooting or different functionality. This is just the start i hope.

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2012, 10:51:04 PM »
I usually shoot RAW to the primary card slot and jpeg to the secondary.  I'd hate to lose a priceless moment to a memory card failure....
In that case you should shoot RAW to both cards...

Area256

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2012, 11:43:19 PM »
the wifi option in this camera isnt just meant for just uploading pics to the web.. much like the gopro helmet cams, you can completely control the camera from a remote or from your smart phone. you can set and control every aspect of the camera from it. It could be an incredibly powerful feature if Canon ever opened up the SDK (software  development kit) to software developers. If they were to ever do that, a developer could write an application for a computer or smart phone that could completely control the camera and add new modes of shooting or different functionality. This is just the start i hope.

+1

This is actually one of the major reasons I want this camera over the 5D2.  I often shoot things at odd angles or locations, and being able to control the camera remotely would be awesome.  Also I carry around a iPad most of the time, and being able to review photos quickly on that without any cables, adapters, etc, would also be a fun feature to have.  I process RAW before I upload anything, but still for checking the images it would be good.

From a consumer point of view, I could see this being the ultimate self-portrait camera.  Using a phone to get your framing and focus right while away from the camera would be awesome.

From a pro point of view, being able to wireless transfer images to a computer in studio would also be handy.

I would love it if they would release the API, or if someone could reverse engineer the API.  I could see doing some really cool things with that.

Is WiFi a need to have feature? I actually don't think so, but it could sure be a nice to have feature.
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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2012, 12:31:14 AM »
So answer this question, do you ever back-up your computer to make sure you don't lose the important files/photos you have saved???  Having a 2nd memory card slot is the same thing when it comes to a camera!  I guess we're not going to agree on the importance of having back-up files! 

My point is from a retail price standpoint, I'd much rather have a camera with a 2nd memory card slot and pop-up flash vs. a camera that had one card slot and no pop-up flash, but had GPS and WiFi.  If you talk about the "wants v. needs", how many people really need GPS and WiFi? 


WiFi = The ultimate 2nd memory card slot, without taking up space in the camera body, and with a great many other benefits as well.

Computer back-ups are great, if you keep them off site.  If they're in the same building, then they're only so-so, since if the place burns down, everything goes.  Same with having two card slots in the body - drop the camera over the side of the boat, and it doesn't matter if you copied to both cards.  But with WiFi, your laptop sitting safely in the corner can still have your images.

Sounds to me like Canon is trying for a paradigm shift in this area.

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2012, 12:31:14 AM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2012, 08:11:02 AM »
So answer this question, do you ever back-up your computer to make sure you don't lose the important files/photos you have saved???  Having a 2nd memory card slot is the same thing when it comes to a camera!  I guess we're not going to agree on the importance of having back-up files! 

My point is from a retail price standpoint, I'd much rather have a camera with a 2nd memory card slot and pop-up flash vs. a camera that had one card slot and no pop-up flash, but had GPS and WiFi.  If you talk about the "wants v. needs", how many people really need GPS and WiFi? 

Also, I don't think most people who own a DSLR bought it because they wanted the video feature, so it is also a feature that Canon could of left out of the 6D, and that would have kept down the cost.....it would have drove those that wanted video toward the 5D MKIII.


Ok, will say it again ....not saying I don't think it's an important feature...just putting the want/need in context.  I don't think the casual user cares/knows/will use/is concerned with dual card slots - that's more of a pro worry/concern/need/must have or else.  As was pointed out, some may not even know/care that its there or read the manual enough to know how to use it!  Also, dual cards was a luxury only given to uber pro bodies in earlier generations.  And we all (pro, am, general consumer) didn't make much of a fuss about it.  dual cards is trickling down now, by next round of up grades in 3 year it will just be expected.  But as of now, I just don't see it as something the general consumer is going to care about.

Pop up flash on the other hand, now that is something a general consumer coming from a low level DSLR or a P&S will desire - basically because to quote the thought bubble of a potential random consumer "why does my cheap cam have one and this uber expensive one not?  And now i have to buy a flash...  f this, I will go for something else, the 7d has a flash, and a lens for cheaper!!!!!"  This kind of person may bail on any FF body after that.  Again, who is the 6d marketed towards?  I really don't know/get/understand that side of it ---It's got pro features that the average joe doesn't care about but not enough of the features average joe does care about. 

Now wifi and gps, those are selling features the average joe does care about. 

And the there's video, take the video out and this would be a dead in the water camera unless it was priced waaaay lower (like $1400).  Many using crop for video will buy this cause its a cheap and easy way to FF.  And, the average joe, average joe will want video and see any camera without it as pointless.  Unfotunately, bundling video into SLR's, that the kind of thing that once it happened once has to happen now --- it's expected.
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2012, 08:18:01 AM »
The two things that the 6D is lacking that I think are important to a amateur/prosumer photographer are a second memory card slot and a pop-up flash.  I just purchased a Nikon D600 for my father, rather than the 6D, because the D600 had the second memory card slot and a pop-up flash.

I could care less about WiFi and GPS....and video for that matter!  I think Canon should have designed this camera geared toward purely still photography, and left out the video, which would have kept down the retail price and Canon might have been able to price it around $1,500.  The Nikon D700 doesn't have video, and look at how many still love that camera!


I agree regarding the pop-up flash. However, the only reason I want one on my 5D3 is to be able to use it a wireless trigger. Other than that, I see little to no value to it.

As for the secondary card slot...
I don't see why people are complaining so much about it. I have a CF card and an SD in my 5D3, but I never use em both at the same time. I did once, and regretted it during post processing.
I only use the SD card when my CF card runs out of space.

Wifi on the other hand,
Nikon sees the potential of including that technology. In the commercial for the new D3200, they advertised their wifi dongle to go with it. The first guy I met using a D600 (before it became widely available), showed off the wireless dongle to me as one of the features he liked about it. It is a great feature to have when shooting sports b/c you don't have to buy an Eye-fi card to send the photos wirelessly to your computer.  His D600 had some kind of compartment on the strap to house the wireless dongle.

Not to mention that a LOT of people out there take pictures and then post them to Facebook, flickr, etc. Canon is going to release a phone app (for iOS and Android) that allows you to control your DSLR with your phone. The phone can function as a wireless release and even upload the your camera's photos online without the need to download them to your computer.

The real kicker would be if you can use your phone as a wifi hotspot. That means you can post the pictures ANYWHERE that you have cell reception.  I can see lots of teenagers and young adults using this feature to upload their photos to facebook and whatnot.

+1!   this, the take a shot direct to FB crowd is the crowd I am taking about in terms of caring about dual card slots.  I am betting for most of this crowd too, they will prefer jpeg, smaller sized because its the crowd that wants better than cell phone quality but has zero intention of making prints...shoot, wifi to phone, instagram it to FB. 
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: EOS 6D launch and effect on 5D MkII & MKIII
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2012, 08:18:01 AM »