T3i vs T4i for first dslr

[tbone]

Just looking at the sale prices on these two cameras. 
The T3i is available for $600 with 18-55, thinking this might be worth buying. 
In comparison the T4i is available for $850 with 18-135. 

I'd like some opinions whether it's worth starting with the T3i and spending the extra on lenses.

[wickidwombat]

biggest differentiator is do you want it for stills or video?

the T3i has a 3x digital crop mode in video which is killer for extra reach or eliminating moire
no other camera has this feature (go figure  ) also the T3i can already run magic lantern

the T4i STM auto focus in video is basically useless so dont go on that basis

the sensors are essentially idential
the T4i has a slightly faster FPS and better AF for stills (Same AF as the 60D)

if you are going to be using primarily stills i would say the T4i is going to be better
for video I would still take the T3i over the T4i

also put the 40mm pancake on your list its the best value for money lens there is at the moment
especially if you are going for a slow kit lens

[verysimplejason]

If you are serious about photography and if you're into pure stills and don't mind the weight, I wholeheartedly suggest a 5D classic (or 5D2 if you need video) + 50mm 1.8/1.4 depending on your budget.  This is the system I'll use if I were to  turn back time and start again.  I'll also get a Yongnuo TTL flash afterwards.  From there you can build your lenses then you can upgrade again your body if needed.  You will learn a lot with a professional body and a 50mm lens.

[AudioGlenn]

I started with a T3i in January.  Five months later I upgraded to the 60D for some of the better features, including the better auto focus system.  I like the rebel line but X0D series and up offer features you might learn to appreciate as you become more seasoned.  This, of course, depends on how much work and studying you're planning on putting in to your new hobby. 

As for the original question, I'd choose the T4i over the T3i if your budget permits.  Take your time with each lens you own.  Live with each new lens you get for a month or two so you can learn what you can and can't do with them... this includes the kit lens.  At first, I wasn't capable of appreciating the quality difference in the upgraded lenses so I wouldn't necessarily just jump into a new lens right away...although the 40mm pancake is a good bargain right now at $150.

[RLPhoto]

If you are serious about photography and if you're into pure stills and don't mind the weight, I wholeheartedly suggest a 5D classic (or 5D2 if you need video) + 50mm 1.8/1.4 depending on your budget.  This is the system I'll use if I were to  turn back time and start again.  I'll also get a Yongnuo TTL flash afterwards.  From there you can build your lenses then you can upgrade again your body if needed.  You will learn a lot with a professional body and a 50mm lens.

+1. If I had to start over again for photography, a 5Dc + 50mm 1.4. I'd never buy crop again.

[billnelson75]

My two cents...if you are "starting out with DSLR" as you state, you should start with a rebel.  However, you should spend as little on the camera body itself as possible.  Even with a t3 or t2i, which will cost less than a t3i or t4i, you can get some great photos at a beginning level that you will be very happy with.  You are far better off spending less on the camera and then buying an extra lens with the savings than you are in buying a more expensive camera body.  The 50mm f1.8 or the 40mm f2.8 are both good to start with.  See if you like using the DSLR, and then if you feel it is worth it, you can spend more to upgrade the body. 

It does seem like a lot of people on here always say, just buy the 5d ii to anyone who asks, but if you are starting out, I don't think I'd do that.  Make sure you like using the DSLR camera, you have the time to invest in practicing, and you can alwasy upgrade the body later.  Sure, if you end up loving it, and it becomes a hobby or even a profession, then by all means, blow your budget now.  However, since I've started to get into DSLR photography as a hobby, I've met many people with high end DSLR's who don't use them or are frustrated by them because they didn't have  the time, energy or interest to devote to it.  They spent thousands in some cases thinking it would automatically help them take better photos, and now they are running around with point and shoots while their DSLR collects dust because they didn't spend the time to learn how to shoot in the manual modes or spend $150 to upgrade their lens.

You can get great photos with any DSLR once you learn the basics and with the help of some inexpensive prime lenses.  Even the kit lens can deliver good results in certain situations.  Plus the lenses you can always use on a new camera if you upgrade your DSLR in the future.

So to answer your question, I'd go with the t3i, and I don't think you could go wrong with a t3 or t2i if you can find a really good deal.  Then spend $110 or $149 and buy a 2nd lens.  That is where you will notice a significant difference in  your photos, because of the lens you use, not between the t3i and t4i.  Good luck.

[koolman]

I started with my first DSLR 2 years ago the t2i and I am very happy that I did not jump to an expensive body.

1) You can get stellar results with a t2i - quality that a few short years ago earlier in the "digital" camera world, where only available with very expensive equipment.

2) All the basics of photography are available on the t2i - full control over WB, TV/AV, EV, etc.

3) if you are a hobbiest - I'm not sure you need a bigger heavier more expensive body - made for fast moving pros who as part of work are forced to work under all kinds of conditions, requiring FF and very high ISO + AF.

4) I wholly agree with the other members of the forum - who advised getting your feet wet with higher end primes before investing in more expensive bodies.

[Physicx]

As a first dslr, all you need is a 2nd hand 450D or an XSi what you call them over there in the US.

Why? because it is cheap and it has all the things you need to learn about photography.

Then what are the improvements of the 650D over the 450D? Well there is;

1) video: you dont need that for photography

2) higher iso range: They are utterly useless as it is an APS-C sensor, and iso 6400 is just unusable on matter on what camera. you will never need to shoot over ISO 1600. If you do you really need a full frame.

3)Better Auto focus. This means it has more AF points. But you should shoot centre spot, use only centre focus and then recompose. Hence you dont need more than 1 AF pts either. The only time you shoot AF using all points is shooting birds for example or a football game. You point the camera and burst multi frames, hoping the camera will get 1 good shot. But I doubt you will shoot many these situation.

4) faster frames per second. again, just mentioned above.

5) there will be a few more mega pixels on the newer sensors. But it is really no difference. Think about it. If you move from a 2mp to a 8mp, an massive 4 times increase in resolustion, you will get 2 times more pixels along the length of the frame. as it is a square root. Now if you move from 11mps to 14 mps, you work it out. sqrt(14/11). hardly anything.

camera improvements reminds of of boys comparing their trump cards...look my card has 1 more hp than urs. My hero has +1 attack pts than yours. Its all bollocks. get a 2nd hand 450D, learn about shooting AV, f stop, manual iso. And dont invest in any EF-S lenses either. Shoot a 450D for 3-4 months. Then move to a 2nd hand 5DMKII. And build ur your collection of EF lenses.

You will thank me later!

P.S. you might ask, why then the 450D and not going down further to 400D, 350D? because 450D has live view whichis useful for manaul focus and the screen is larger which helps you to see your photos as you take your pictures. 450D. You cant go wrong.

[Random Orbits]

3)Better Auto focus. This means it has more AF points. But you should shoot centre spot, use only centre focus and then recompose. Hence you dont need more than 1 AF pts either. The only time you shoot AF using all points is shooting birds for example or a football game. You point the camera and burst multi frames, hoping the camera will get 1 good shot. But I doubt you will shoot many these situation.

Disagree on this point.  If you plan on trying fast primes in the future, then multiple AF points and AFMA are key.  When the DOF is only about an inch deep, focus and recompose is a recipe for consistent OOF shots.  If you plan on f/2.8 or faster lenses, AFMA is an essential feature.

[Dylan777]

If you are serious about photography and if you're into pure stills and don't mind the weight, I wholeheartedly suggest a 5D classic (or 5D2 if you need video) + 50mm 1.8/1.4 depending on your budget.  This is the system I'll use if I were to  turn back time and start again.  I'll also get a Yongnuo TTL flash afterwards.  From there you can build your lenses then you can upgrade again your body if needed.  You will learn a lot with a professional body and a 50mm lens.

+1. If I had to start over again for photography, a 5Dc + 50mm 1.4. I'd never buy crop again.

+2...it's very hard to explain this to new DSLR users. I told my sister in law about this option, but she went other route(t4i + kit lens). 

[mortadella]

Don't be afraid to buy used.  You can get so much more for your $$$.

If you are a fast learner and are at least moderately serious about your photography you may find that you grow out of that rebel a lot faster than you anticipated.

I suggest searching your local craigslist, ebay or here http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/800901467-USE/Canon_2807b006_EOS_50D_SLR_Digital.html for a deal on at least an xxD body.  I'm not totally against APS-C as a trusty one can serve as a nice back-up or a very good 1.6x teleconverter if you decided to move to full frame in the future. 

You can find a 50D which gives you a lot more than those rebels in terms of having AFMA, better build quality, and a faster frame rate for around $500. 

Those kit lenses you will find are not worth keeping once you use some better glass, so why bother paying for them to start.

50mm 1.8 for under $100 or the 40mm pancake for $150 would be a great starter lens.

Used 50D + 40mm pancake ~ $650 - you may never sell either and it would be hard to say the same for one of those rebel kits.

[Silverstream]

I would recommend the T4i simply for the much higher quality focus system but you will need f2.8 or faster lenses to truly take advantage of it. I do a good bit of low light event work and getting focus lock in low light was an issue for me with the T2i (which I also still have as my second camera).

The lens you choose can influence whether you get focus beyond the aperture requirement. I have a sigma 85mm f1.4 which was not consistent with getting sharp focus on the T2i even in what I consider less difficult lighting conditions. It is MUCH better and more consistent with the T4i (although still not near the Canon 85mm f1.2L).

It is my understanding that the focus system is almost identical in the T3i and the T2i.

[verysimplejason]

If you are serious about photography and if you're into pure stills and don't mind the weight, I wholeheartedly suggest a 5D classic (or 5D2 if you need video) + 50mm 1.8/1.4 depending on your budget.  This is the system I'll use if I were to  turn back time and start again.  I'll also get a Yongnuo TTL flash afterwards.  From there you can build your lenses then you can upgrade again your body if needed.  You will learn a lot with a professional body and a 50mm lens.

+1. If I had to start over again for photography, a 5Dc + 50mm 1.4. I'd never buy crop again.

+2...it's very hard to explain this to new DSLR users. I told my sister in law about this option, but she went other route(t4i + kit lens). 

5DC would be as sharp or sharper than the best APS-C of canon aside from the wonderful bokeh.  50mm is one of the cheapest and sharpest lens out there (even sharper than most L zoom lenses).  With an FF you can take advantage of it as your walk-around lens.  I find it a little bit long for APS-C that's why I bought the 28mm.  That's one thing I realized late.  FF + 50mm is a combo made-in-heaven.  Don't worry about the ease of use.  5D have Av and Tv to help you during your learning stage (and even when you become professional).  You don't need all those automatic modes that are available in Rebels.  AF-wise, it's not that far except for 7D (Rebel?).  I'm sure you can find a second-hand 5D for under $1000.

[unadog]

I would recommend the T4i simply for the much higher quality focus system

Agreed!  The T4i is a much better camera than the T3i because of the focus system.  It has the same auto focus as the 60D - much, much better than the T3i.

The other features are also nice - touch screen LCD, face tracking auto focus, auto focus during video with the STM lenses.  I replaced my camcorder with the T4i with the auto focus.  Not great, but good enough for many things.

Your price comparison up top is not apples-to-apples. The 18-135 STM is a much better - and more expensive - lens than the 18-55.  It is a great lens for a beginner.

Sop the T4i body is about $600 new, around $950 with the lens.  Although I saw it elsewhere at $900 today.

I am a 20+ year pro. I have owned the T4i with 18-135, 1DX, and 5DIII this year, as well as a Nikon D3200, NEX 7, NEX 5n.

I could use the T4i quite happily for most of my work, except for high ISO/low light - at 6400 ISO or above.  I bought a 5DIII for event work for those cases.  Otherwise the T4i is  great camera, and the 18-135 is the **only** non-L lens I have used in many years.

The net cost to own a T4i for 1 year might be about $100 to $125 max.  I know someone who recently sold a T3i body on Craigslist for $600, though $500 is more reasonable.

I'd say go for the T4i and don't look back!  Your call on the 18-55 versus the 18-135 STM, although the latter is a great lens.

[tbone]

Thanks for all the input.
I have decided on the t4i with the 18-135.
Now will look around to see what's available used in 50 or 60d and compare to new t4i.
I don't mind buying used but am skeptical buying something used that I don't know a lot about.