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Author Topic: Is it worth it...for me?  (Read 23842 times)

Sojuko Hitami

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2012, 12:48:26 PM »
Buy nothing but the following in this exact order...

1) Current 5D
2) Current 85 1.2
3) Current 70-200 2.8 IS
4) Current radio flash #1
5) Current 24-70 2.8
6) Current 16-35 2.8
7) Current radio flash #2
8) Current 2x extender

Buy it as you can afford it.  Shoot the hell out of it as you go.  Done.



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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2012, 12:48:26 PM »

elflord

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2012, 01:31:22 PM »
Now, when it comes to having money in my account, it means I will spend it tomorrow >.< I am trying to save for a new lens. The ones I'm currently looking at is the 50mm F1.2 vs 85mm F1.2. Currently leaning towards the 50mm, and I know the 1.4 is cheaper, but I like to shoot at those wide apertures and hear that the 1.4 isn't sharp open, but if you can really convince me to get it instead please do.

Take a look at the photozone benchmarks. Sharpness (wide open, at f/1.4 or otherwise) is not a reason to prefer the vastly more expensive L lens.

I think given your subject matter, full frame makes sense.  As far as glass is concerned, I'd recommend getting the/a 50mm f/1.4 (great on crop -- get this before you get a new body), and a flash. Then look at a full frame body and more lenses.

Re focus and recompose, I find it more intuitive and faster than manually selecting the AF point. I find fumbling with the joystick a bit cumbersome, and the center point performs better anyway. I do sometimes select the AF point but usually focus and recompose. I never allow the camera to select the AF point.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 03:29:47 PM by elflord »

distant.star

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2012, 02:04:49 PM »

.
Sorry to rain on the shopping parade, but you need experience far more than you need equipment. You've already got decent picture making equipment; spend your time using that to make the best images you possibly can. Give yourself a year with what you've got. A few suggestions:

1. Get involved with a photo club or some class or group that will critique your work constructively. Typically, they will give you "challenges" to go out and get a particular type of picture so you have to get focused on what it takes to MAKE that kind of image.

2. Limit your shooting to only one lens for a day or week or so. That forces you to live within the limitations of that lens and schools you in the discipline of being challenged by limitations. Photography is nothing if not dealing with limitations. The better you get at accepting and dealing with that, the better photographer you will become.

3. Take pictures relentlessly. Shoot every single day. Maybe for 2013, do a 365 project where you have to take and post a picture every day. This forces you to do the work that makes you better.

4. Do some formal training (reading, classes, online videos, etc.) in the theory of photography -- composition, lighting, optics, etc. I know the more I do this the more it eventually sinks in.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses:

EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

EF 135mm f/2.0L. This provides some reach for the sports you mentioned, and it's great for low light, nighttime work. If you get this, go out and walk around at night taking pictures. Also spend a day doing "headhunting," portraits of everyone you see.

Both of those are L-class lenses and will become part of your kit when you move to full-frame photography. Also, you can get either one for less than $1000US.

Thanks for asking -- a good first step.
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christianronnel

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2012, 02:51:46 PM »

.
Sorry to rain on the shopping parade, but you need experience far more than you need equipment. You've already got decent picture making equipment; spend your time using that to make the best images you possibly can. Give yourself a year with what you've got. A few suggestions:

1. Get involved with a photo club or some class or group that will critique your work constructively. Typically, they will give you "challenges" to go out and get a particular type of picture so you have to get focused on what it takes to MAKE that kind of image.

2. Limit your shooting to only one lens for a day or week or so. That forces you to live within the limitations of that lens and schools you in the discipline of being challenged by limitations. Photography is nothing if not dealing with limitations. The better you get at accepting and dealing with that, the better photographer you will become.

3. Take pictures relentlessly. Shoot every single day. Maybe for 2013, do a 365 project where you have to take and post a picture every day. This forces you to do the work that makes you better.

4. Do some formal training (reading, classes, online videos, etc.) in the theory of photography -- composition, lighting, optics, etc. I know the more I do this the more it eventually sinks in.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses:

EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

EF 135mm f/2.0L. This provides some reach for the sports you mentioned, and it's great for low light, nighttime work. If you get this, go out and walk around at night taking pictures. Also spend a day doing "headhunting," portraits of everyone you see.

Both of those are L-class lenses and will become part of your kit when you move to full-frame photography. Also, you can get either one for less than $1000US.

Thanks for asking -- a good first step.


+1  Best advice given here.  But if the cash is burning a hole in your pocket, buy the 85 1.2 or the 70-200II.  The 50 1.2 will not give you that much different look than the 85 1.2 can.  And since you already have the 17-55 zoom, the 24-70II can wait.  Never buy a full frame body without any lens to go with it.  I mean, what would be the point?

As for the 50 1.4 not being sharp wide open, that's correct.  In fact it's not sharp until f2-f2.8.  The 50 1.2 is okay at 1.2 and would only add to your ego nothing more. 

For some insights (not sure if adding anything), almost all pro photographers I had a chance to hang out with use 35L, 50 1.4, 85LII, 135L, 70-200LII for portrait.  Some carry the 24-105 or the new 24-70II... and 16-35II but use it grudgingly for lack of a better option.

If I'm asked to assist they hand me the 24-70 and 70-200II
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Marsu42

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2012, 03:56:21 PM »
The ones I'm currently looking at is the 50mm F1.2 vs 85mm F1.2. Currently leaning towards the 50mm, and I know the 1.4 is cheaper, but I like to shoot at those wide apertures and hear that the 1.4 isn't sharp open, but if you can really convince me to get it instead please do.

The 50L is said to be notoriously complicated to handle, and except for the bokeh easily outperformed by other lenses - did you look at the Sigma, too? But given your two choices you don't seem to have made up your mind what you want to do with these primes anyway?

as I HATE focus + recompose and I can't understand how so many people ONLY use the center point

Focus & recompose is much faster than selecting the correct af point when the scene constantly changes ... and not all af points perform equally, esp. not on the 5d3 - it depends on the lens attached.

With my photos do you feel like it's a logical decision?

I don't think getting a 5d3 and stretching or exhausting one's budget is a smart idea atm except if you're a pro and are likely to get a return of invest. Canon is bound to make a leap in sensor tech in 2013, probably starting with the crop cameras.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses: EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

+1 for a macro lens (it doesn't *have* to be the L or Canon at all, but the L can be dual-used as a general prime) is the most fun lens on the block and opens up new possibilities. If I would have to choose one lens, it'd be the 100L (and a Kenko 1.4x extender to accompany it).

Last not least, buying other gear imho is as important as lenses - flashes, lighting gear, filters, tripod(s)+head(s) - much more fun & possible advancement than the latest and greatest camera body or biggest lens on the block.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 03:58:08 PM by Marsu42 »

bycostello

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #20 on: December 04, 2012, 06:55:13 PM »


I am not a professional at all. I only started in July and even though people around me are saying I'm progressing pretty quickly, I feel like I still can't really get photos that appeal me and match my vision.

then u need to practice, new kit won't get u that

unfocused

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2012, 08:00:00 PM »
One more opinion to muddy the water.

You seem to like portraits (based on your photo stream). The good news then, is that you can invest in lenses that will work on either full frame or crop without having to decide between the two just yet.

There is nothing in your pictures that will be improved by going full frame, but a lot that will be improved by getting a longer lens. Choices would be: 85mm; 100mm, 135mm or 70-200mm. All will give you a little more reach which will flatter your subjects and create greater separation between them and the background. Even on a crop sensor, all of these lenses are very usable for portraits.

Also, consider investing in a strobe. With the T3i you can remotely fire an off-camera flash. You'd be amazed at how much you can do and learn with a single off-camera flash and an umbrella.

Cameras are short-term investments, lenses are long-term investments. Invest in a lens or two now, and when you feel you've outgrown the camera, then start shopping. 
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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #21 on: December 04, 2012, 08:00:00 PM »

robbymack

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #22 on: December 04, 2012, 08:11:17 PM »
One more opinion to muddy the water.

You seem to like portraits (based on your photo stream). The good news then, is that you can invest in lenses that will work on either full frame or crop without having to decide between the two just yet.

There is nothing in your pictures that will be improved by going full frame, but a lot that will be improved by getting a longer lens. Choices would be: 85mm; 100mm, 135mm or 70-200mm. All will give you a little more reach which will flatter your subjects and create greater separation between them and the background. Even on a crop sensor, all of these lenses are very usable for portraits.

Also, consider investing in a strobe. With the T3i you can remotely fire an off-camera flash. You'd be amazed at how much you can do and learn with a single off-camera flash and an umbrella.

Cameras are short-term investments, lenses are long-term investments. Invest in a lens or two now, and when you feel you've outgrown the camera, then start shopping.

+1 glass and a strobe (430exii is probably all you need for now) should be the next step. I also liked this posters photostream, some of them could have used some fill flash (dont be afraid to pop the flash on The t3i when you need some fill flash outdoors) and it seems a lot where outside so no reason to worry about small spaces inside and for that the 17-55 is awesome on crop. I'd say a 85/100 1.8,either won't break the bank and would be a great choice, if it must be L then maybe the 100L macro, also a good portrait lens plus you can play with some macro, or a 135L but that may be a little long on crop but both are still half the price of an 85L

Area256

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #23 on: December 04, 2012, 08:38:29 PM »

.
Sorry to rain on the shopping parade, but you need experience far more than you need equipment. You've already got decent picture making equipment; spend your time using that to make the best images you possibly can. Give yourself a year with what you've got. A few suggestions:

1. Get involved with a photo club or some class or group that will critique your work constructively. Typically, they will give you "challenges" to go out and get a particular type of picture so you have to get focused on what it takes to MAKE that kind of image.

2. Limit your shooting to only one lens for a day or week or so. That forces you to live within the limitations of that lens and schools you in the discipline of being challenged by limitations. Photography is nothing if not dealing with limitations. The better you get at accepting and dealing with that, the better photographer you will become.

3. Take pictures relentlessly. Shoot every single day. Maybe for 2013, do a 365 project where you have to take and post a picture every day. This forces you to do the work that makes you better.

4. Do some formal training (reading, classes, online videos, etc.) in the theory of photography -- composition, lighting, optics, etc. I know the more I do this the more it eventually sinks in.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses:

EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

EF 135mm f/2.0L. This provides some reach for the sports you mentioned, and it's great for low light, nighttime work. If you get this, go out and walk around at night taking pictures. Also spend a day doing "headhunting," portraits of everyone you see.

Both of those are L-class lenses and will become part of your kit when you move to full-frame photography. Also, you can get either one for less than $1000US.

Thanks for asking -- a good first step.

+1  This is great advice.

Also if you like taking pictures of people, I can't empathize enough how important it is to learn lighting!   Both how to use external lighting (flashes/strobes/reflectors/modifiers/etc), and how to take advantage of natural light sources.  Strobist.com is a good place to learn more about getting into cheep off camera lighting, but there are many other sources both online and in print.  The best part of lighting is you don't have to spend a lot, since a cheap $100 manual flash will give you the same results as a $600 one in manual mode.  I've had at least 10 times more ROI from lighting, in terms of how much it has improved my photography, than I have from better lenses/cameras.

Specifically I'd advise learning how to light and pose people; there are some amazing things that can be done with a combination of good posing and good lighting.  Want to make a person look lighter and thinner, or stronger and larger?  Want to create an atmosphere, or a specific mood?  No camera will do that, but there are lighting/posing/composing tricks that will.

Now I'll admit I enjoy fancy equipment as much as the next person (I'm buying a 6D this week, and I own the 100mm f/2.8L macro and I love it for portraits and macro).  And I'd love to own an 85mm f/1.2L, a 135mm f/2L, and a 5D3 someday.  It's fun to shoot with awesome equipment.  And if you have the means and will enjoy using it, why not.  However, it won't make your photos automatically better.  Only a combination of experience and knowledge will do that.  Looking at your photos you are off to a great start already.

Best of luck, and keep having fun taking pictures!
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SJTstudios

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #24 on: December 04, 2012, 08:40:54 PM »

.
Sorry to rain on the shopping parade, but you need experience far more than you need equipment. You've already got decent picture making equipment; spend your time using that to make the best images you possibly can. Give yourself a year with what you've got. A few suggestions:

1. Get involved with a photo club or some class or group that will critique your work constructively. Typically, they will give you "challenges" to go out and get a particular type of picture so you have to get focused on what it takes to MAKE that kind of image.

2. Limit your shooting to only one lens for a day or week or so. That forces you to live within the limitations of that lens and schools you in the discipline of being challenged by limitations. Photography is nothing if not dealing with limitations. The better you get at accepting and dealing with that, the better photographer you will become.

3. Take pictures relentlessly. Shoot every single day. Maybe for 2013, do a 365 project where you have to take and post a picture every day. This forces you to do the work that makes you better.

4. Do some formal training (reading, classes, online videos, etc.) in the theory of photography -- composition, lighting, optics, etc. I know the more I do this the more it eventually sinks in.

Finally, if you can't resist playing Santa for yourself this month, get one of these two lenses:

EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro. This gives you a tighter portrait capability as well as a new option to try some macro work.

EF 135mm f/2.0L. This provides some reach for the sports you mentioned, and it's great for low light, nighttime work. If you get this, go out and walk around at night taking pictures. Also spend a day doing "headhunting," portraits of everyone you see.

Both of those are L-class lenses and will become part of your kit when you move to full-frame photography. Also, you can get either one for less than $1000US.

Thanks for asking -- a good first step.

 I agree 100%, expierience is Key. L lenses are there for the pros. Ive got an l macro and its awesome, and i love it but money can be spent much wiser. Go out and buy some cheap primes if you really want some new lenses. Primes make you expierience the world differently.
-canon 50mm 1.8
-canon 85mm 1.8
-old canon 35mm f2
-old canon 24mm/28mm 2.8
-canon 100mm f2
-canon 60mm 2.8 ef-s
-canon 15mm 2.8

        Or even...
-canon 135mm 2.8 soft focus
-canon 20mm 2.8
-a lensbaby
-or even the canon 200mm f2.8 l

All these primes are sub $1000, all the ones in the top group would total $3000

L lenses are the pinnacle of lenses, but they're pro quality. Unless the photos you take will be printed poster size plus, you don't need a l lens.

If I had to go on a shoot with a 5dii and a 50mm 1.2 or a giant load of primes with a rebel, I'd go rebel. Lenses make the image. That's why not a lot of pros shoot with an 18-200. And I think anybody's friends would be just as jealous or think you're just as pro with 7 nice lenses, rather than a 1.2l

I like to think that amateurs unless they're filthy stinkin' rich should set a budget for gear prices. If you have to spend a year saving up for a 5d iii and an l lens, when you just shoot your kids, your wasting time and money. People are allowed to choose what they do, and I respect that, but I enjoy using my primes and my rebel to make stunning images, I make a little cash here and there, but not enough to justify such an expensive purchase. I buy the cheaper primes so I can make interesting images, my l macro is for the flowers, portraits, and I shoot everything with it. I've put aside a fund for a 70-200, since I use my telephoto for most of my profitable photos.

But I love primes, and that is how I learned and still learn how to shoot. Although the 1.2 lenses will wow all your friends and family for portraits, something like the canon 60mm macro or the 15mm fisheye will wow everyone, and that is where you could start making money, and the l lenses will become more justifyible.

I have my own printer for my house framing, and I love playing with it, it teaches me how to work colors, and now I can justify purchasing a large format printer. But, start out with your rebel, a couple primes, and some lessons, and you'll go far. You can actually ask Walgreens to print photos, and it's fairly cheap. I purchased 2 4x6's for 42 cents.

But if you really want an l lens, 135mm f2, or 100mm l macro. I highly recommend the macro.

And, best thing about small primes, you can wrap them and put them in your stockings :)

Santa left me a 50mm 1.8 ii, a 28mm 1.8, and a 430 ex ii nobody knew.

Marsu42

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #25 on: December 05, 2012, 03:43:32 AM »
Ive got an l macro and its awesome, and i love it but money can be spent much wiser.

For non-outdoor (dust, sand...) macro work on a budget I'd advise a used Canon 100mm non-L ... there are tons around used so the price is rather low and it's a very good lens.

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #26 on: December 05, 2012, 04:00:28 AM »
I disagree, if you want an L lens and you have the means why shouldnt you buy one? Reserved for pros my foot. almost everyone on this forum has an L and most are hobbyists. I regret NOT buying L from the start. Sometimes you just need a better lens.
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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 04:09:00 AM »
I regret NOT buying L from the start. Sometimes you just need a better lens.

Personally, I think when buying ef (L) lenses for crop, it should be an educated decision like the need for dust sealing or the possibility to upgrade to ff. Esp. for uwa lenses the choices on crop smoke the expensive and/or mediocre offers on ff, and there are excellent value standard zooms for ef-s, too.

You're correct most people have L lenses and feel a 70-200/2.8ii is an absolute necessity, but this forum is really very biased - if you look at other more general, non-enthusiast forums it's completely different, so looking/asking around a bit is always a good idea.

The main bias is that of course expensive equipment is excellent, but few people have a direct comparison how/if the cheaper version would have done any worse - just about every Canon lens except for Rebel kits is at least decent. After buying expensive stuff you feel 99% of the time it was worth it, this is just human, and it's the same with me.

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #27 on: December 05, 2012, 04:09:00 AM »

M.ST

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #28 on: December 05, 2012, 05:14:35 AM »
RE to: I feel like I still can't really get photos that appeal me and match my vision.

All you need to match a vision is the right light and a perfect composition. Expensive equipment can only assist.

It´s very funny that everyone need or recommend a pro camera and pro lenses for hobby photographers.

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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 06:00:29 AM »
RE to: I feel like I still can't really get photos that appeal me and match my vision.

All you need to match a vision is the right light and a perfect composition. Expensive equipment can only assist.

It´s very funny that everyone need or recommend a pro camera and pro lenses for hobby photographers.
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Re: Is it worth it...for me?
« Reply #29 on: December 05, 2012, 06:00:29 AM »