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Author Topic: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..  (Read 10446 times)

x-vision

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2012, 02:23:36 PM »
Our teachers say, that the 7D Mark 2 starts selling in the end of spring 2013 (in Germany and Austria). But it will be expensive.

That's very interesting.
I’m hearing similar things on other forums as well.
So, it seems that a 7DII announcement is indeed imminent.

I can’t imagine that the 7DII will be priced higher than the 6D.
Canon has done other nonsensical things, though (just look at the 6D AF system  :-*).
So,  who knows.

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2012, 02:23:36 PM »

JonB8305

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2012, 08:18:36 PM »
Our teachers say, that the 7D Mark 2 starts selling in the end of spring 2013 (in Germany and Austria). But it will be expensive.

That's very interesting.
I’m hearing similar things on other forums as well.
So, it seems that a 7DII announcement is indeed imminent.

I can’t imagine that the 7DII will be priced higher than the 6D.
Canon has done other nonsensical things, though (just look at the 6D AF system  :-*).
So,  who knows.


It might.

7D and 1D pro level
60D and 5 D are mid level prosumer grade
Rebel and 6 D consumer level

7D is going to have pro level features above and beyond the 6 D, with the only draw back being a crop sensor. Then again the current 7D wasn't priced above $2k.

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2012, 09:18:45 PM »
Our teachers say, that the 7D Mark 2 starts selling in the end of spring 2013 (in Germany and Austria). But it will be expensive.

That's very interesting.
I’m hearing similar things on other forums as well.
So, it seems that a 7DII announcement is indeed imminent.

I can’t imagine that the 7DII will be priced higher than the 6D.
Canon has done other nonsensical things, though (just look at the 6D AF system  :-*).
So,  who knows.

it all depends on the specs for this i guess.  if its only a modest update then no.  But if they give it the 1dx/5d3 AF, 8fps or more, improved new sensor that can crank out good images at higher ISO's, then yeah i say it will land in the 2-2.5K range
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Area256

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2012, 11:08:56 PM »
7D and 1D pro level
60D and 5 D are mid level prosumer grade
Rebel and 6 D consumer level

7D is going to have pro level features above and beyond the 6 D, with the only draw back being a crop sensor. Then again the current 7D wasn't priced above $2k.

I'd say the 60D is far closer to a Rebel, and the 6D far closer to a 5D series camera - especially in build quality and the number of "consumer" features.  The 6D is a surprisingly serious camera compared to the 60D, the AF may seem lacking in spec, but I'm finding it's a lot more usable than the 60D's especially for low light and tracking.

However, I think a better classification would be by photography type:

General pro-photography (weddings, random assignment work, etc.): 5D3
Sports/journalism/wildlife: 7D and 1D
Landscape and portraits: 6D
Easy to use (and "cheap") for casual photo enthusiasts: Rebel and 60D.

Then doesn't really matter what the price difference between the 6D and 7D is.  If you shoot a lot of sports or wildlife, you get the 7D (or 1Dx if you can afford it).  If you shoot a lot of landscape and portraits (where the FF sensor is important) you get the 6D.  They become different camera's for different markets.   The 7D mark II could have 10fps, be build like a tank, have a 40 point all cross type AF, and two Digic 5+ processors, and sell for around $2k just like the 6D.  And people will just buy what works best for them.  Much like what happened with the 5D2 and the current 7D.

I think the 5D3 is really a new class: namely the general purpose pro camera; mostly to satisfy the pro market that doesn't want to (or can't) pay for a 1Dx, and was finding the 5D2 (or 6D) too lacking.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 11:11:42 PM by Area256 »
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Chosenbydestiny

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2012, 11:26:10 PM »
Our teachers say, that the 7D Mark 2 starts selling in the end of spring 2013 (in Germany and Austria). But it will be expensive.

That's very interesting.
I’m hearing similar things on other forums as well.
So, it seems that a 7DII announcement is indeed imminent.

I can’t imagine that the 7DII will be priced higher than the 6D.
Canon has done other nonsensical things, though (just look at the 6D AF system  :-*).
So,  who knows.


It might.

7D and 1D pro level
60D and 5 D are mid level prosumer grade
Rebel and 6 D consumer level

7D is going to have pro level features above and beyond the 6 D, with the only draw back being a crop sensor. Then again the current 7D wasn't priced above $2k.

I wouldn't go as far as stepping the 6D down to a rebel level. It's at least better sealed than a 60D, considering the fact it doesn't have a swivel screen and feels as sturdy as the 5D mark II. Look at the 6D AF system? How about actually using it? My wife's 6D is responsive as hell and as far as I've "seen" it's been much more accurate than any "rebel". Rebels don't have micro-adjust. Rebels don't even have custom white balance through kelvin. Not saying rebels can't do the job, but the 6D is far from being that far down the ladder especially at that price bracket. I think it's more on the lines of being a complimentary body to a 60D or 7D. Now you have a better variety of bodies to choose from. It will be easier for someone looking to upgrade from a rebel to gauge whether they need more reach and faster performance, or just need more image quality, especially at higher ISOs. Canon markets to an audience that actually exists, not forum posters who look at specs. Is an advanced AF system the new megapixel race? More points wins? How many points does a landscape, macro, or studio photographer need? Canon has made it clear that if you want pro AF or full frame you need to pay for it, and to have it all you're going to have pay some more. The last time I heard about Canon doing a nonsensical thing, like "rebelizing" a product, it sold quite well. In fact, according to real world sales figures from stores like Calumet, B&H, and DigitalREV the 60D is one of Canon's best selling cameras of all time. I vote prosumer for 6D.
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JonB8305

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #20 on: December 10, 2012, 12:22:09 AM »
Our teachers say, that the 7D Mark 2 starts selling in the end of spring 2013 (in Germany and Austria). But it will be expensive.

That's very interesting.
I’m hearing similar things on other forums as well.
So, it seems that a 7DII announcement is indeed imminent.

I can’t imagine that the 7DII will be priced higher than the 6D.
Canon has done other nonsensical things, though (just look at the 6D AF system  :-*).
So,  who knows.


It might.

7D and 1D pro level
60D and 5 D are mid level prosumer grade
Rebel and 6 D consumer level

7D is going to have pro level features above and beyond the 6 D, with the only draw back being a crop sensor. Then again the current 7D wasn't priced above $2k.

I wouldn't go as far as stepping the 6D down to a rebel level. It's at least better sealed than a 60D, considering the fact it doesn't have a swivel screen and feels as sturdy as the 5D mark II. Look at the 6D AF system? How about actually using it? My wife's 6D is responsive as hell and as far as I've "seen" it's been much more accurate than any "rebel". Rebels don't have micro-adjust. Rebels don't even have custom white balance through kelvin. Not saying rebels can't do the job, but the 6D is far from being that far down the ladder especially at that price bracket. I think it's more on the lines of being a complimentary body to a 60D or 7D. Now you have a better variety of bodies to choose from. It will be easier for someone looking to upgrade from a rebel to gauge whether they need more reach and faster performance, or just need more image quality, especially at higher ISOs. Canon markets to an audience that actually exists, not forum posters who look at specs. Is an advanced AF system the new megapixel race? More points wins? How many points does a landscape, macro, or studio photographer need? Canon has made it clear that if you want pro AF or full frame you need to pay for it, and to have it all you're going to have pay some more. The last time I heard about Canon doing a nonsensical thing, like "rebelizing" a product, it sold quite well. In fact, according to real world sales figures from stores like Calumet, B&H, and DigitalREV the 60D is one of Canon's best selling cameras of all time. I vote prosumer for 6D.


I was just saying that the 6D is Canons consumer grade full frame, not that it's built like a rebel. Just that it's priced on th e lower end of FF like the rebels are for Crops. I was strictly speaking in terms of pricing. Thats why the 7D may come in higher priced than a 6D because it may be considered a pro grade APS-C camera. I agree with your points as well.

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 02:10:40 AM »
Professional Sports/journalism/wildlife: 1D X
Professional Studio/portrait/landscape: 1Ds Mark III
Professional Weddings/multipurpose camera: 5D Mark III
Amateur Sports/wildlife or for a Pro instead of a TC: 7D
Amateur Portrait/Landscape: 6D

If you want to lock the focus in extreme low light:
1. choice: 1D X
2. choice: 5D Mark III
3. 6D.

The 1D X and 5D Mark III can lock the focus in low light while the 6D is giving up.



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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #21 on: December 10, 2012, 02:10:40 AM »

verysimplejason

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #22 on: December 10, 2012, 04:53:21 AM »
Professional Sports/journalism/wildlife: 1D X
Professional Studio/portrait/landscape: 1Ds Mark III
Professional Weddings/multipurpose camera: 5D Mark III
Amateur Sports/wildlife or for a Pro instead of a TC: 7D
Amateur Portrait/Landscape: 6D

If you want to lock the focus in extreme low light:
1. choice: 1D X
2. choice: 5D Mark III
3. 6D.

The 1D X and 5D Mark III can lock the focus in low light while the 6D is giving up.

Outer focus points, yes.  Center, no.  Enough of these "amateur" categories.  A lot of professionals were shooting and still are shooting with 5D2 which we can say is beaten/on par on almost all camera features by 6D.  I'm sorry but I disagree with you when you put 6D as an amateur camera.  I can even remember when all cameras were still using MF and yet those cameras were not considered amateur by anybody.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 04:55:03 AM by verysimplejason »

Marsu42

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #23 on: December 10, 2012, 05:46:18 AM »
Enough of these "amateur" categories.  A lot of professionals were shooting and still are shooting with 5D2 which we can say is beaten/on par on almost all camera features by 6D.

+1 ... esp. since a pro starting off with a business is completely different from a seasoned pro with a big budget and lots of assistants - if you're starting off €1000 can buy a (better) lens that make more sense for the business.

But as all marketing divisions know, people have an inherent need to sort things in a linear fashion with as little overlap as possible, but I wouldn't let that cloud the fact that a 5d3+Tamon24/70 will have worse iq than 6d+Canon24/70ii if you're not shooting sports and the af cannot keep up or have to rely on the non-center points.

Scarpz13

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2012, 07:22:56 AM »
Enough of these "amateur" categories.  A lot of professionals were shooting and still are shooting with 5D2 which we can say is beaten/on par on almost all camera features by 6D.

+1 ... esp. since a pro starting off with a business is completely different from a seasoned pro with a big budget and lots of assistants - if you're starting off €1000 can buy a (better) lens that make more sense for the business.

But as all marketing divisions know, people have an inherent need to sort things in a linear fashion with as little overlap as possible, but I wouldn't let that cloud the fact that a 5d3+Tamon24/70 will have worse iq than 6d+Canon24/70ii if you're not shooting sports and the af cannot keep up or have to rely on the non-center points.

I have to agree here. I think what is getting overlooked by some is that "professional" simply means one gets paid to take pictures. There is a little shop near where I live that takes children & baby pics- the owner there uses a T1i and 28-135 lens (plus alot of fancy studio lighting). Imagine my horror when we showed up & my wife shelled out $500 for all sorts of prints and frames. BUT I have to admit; photos came out pretty good actually, an in the end I was impressed with the quality of product she provided despite having "non-professional" equipment.

The gentleman that shot my wedding 4 years ago had a 5d classic; I'm sure he would have been thrilled with a 6D and still done a wonderful job. But put a 1Dx in the hands of my father in law, and you'd probably get a lot of nice photos of the back of your lens cap...

I am just a hobbyist myself, and plan on picking up a 6D anyway- but if I WAS starting a business as Marsu42 said, I agree 100%... I'd save the $1000 and use it towards glass/marketing/etc. Then when my company got huge of course I'd let my assistant use it :)

Long story short, to classify a 6D as only for amateur potraits or landscape I personally think is unfair. While many amateurs/hobbyists (myself included) will be the purchasers of 6Ds, I don't see why event photographers needing to replace a 5Dc or 5Dii wouldn't think this camera would work for them.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 09:47:51 AM by Scarpz13 »
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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2012, 11:17:16 AM »
it all depends on the specs for this i guess.  if its only a modest update then no.  But if they give it the 1dx/5d3 AF, 8fps or more, improved new sensor that can crank out good images at higher ISO's, then yeah i say it will land in the 2-2.5K range

The 7Dii "has" to have a new sensor... if not more MP, then better high ISO performance. Yes it should go to 9 or 10fps...  The Center AF point might get the -3ev treatment... Phase AF might come for Video, wireless capability also.

Apart from that there is not too much to improve in it without making it a new camera entirely. I expect it to be announced at $2699 looking at Canon's recent offering...  if this would be a 24mp cam with better ISO than the 7Dc, it would still sell at that price.
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Area256

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2012, 12:46:20 PM »
Enough of these "amateur" categories.  A lot of professionals were shooting and still are shooting with 5D2 which we can say is beaten/on par on almost all camera features by 6D.

+1 ... esp. since a pro starting off with a business is completely different from a seasoned pro with a big budget and lots of assistants - if you're starting off €1000 can buy a (better) lens that make more sense for the business.

But as all marketing divisions know, people have an inherent need to sort things in a linear fashion with as little overlap as possible, but I wouldn't let that cloud the fact that a 5d3+Tamon24/70 will have worse iq than 6d+Canon24/70ii if you're not shooting sports and the af cannot keep up or have to rely on the non-center points.

I have to agree here. I think what is getting overlooked by some is that "professional" simply means one gets paid to take pictures. There is a little shop near where I live that takes children & baby pics- the owner there uses a T1i and 28-135 lens (plus alot of fancy studio lighting). Imagine my horror when we showed up & my wife shelled out $500 for all sorts of prints and frames. BUT I have to admit; photos came out pretty good actually, an in the end I was impressed with the quality of product she provided despite having "non-professional" equipment.

The gentleman that shot my wedding 4 years ago had a 5d classic; I'm sure he would have been thrilled with a 6D and still done a wonderful job. But put a 1Dx in the hands of my father in law, and you'd probably get a lot of nice photos of the back of your lens cap...

I am just a hobbyist myself, and plan on picking up a 6D anyway- but if I WAS starting a business as Marsu42 said, I agree 100%... I'd save the $1000 and use it towards glass/marketing/etc. Then when my company got huge of course I'd let my assistant use it :)

Long story short, to classify a 6D as only for amateur potraits or landscape I personally think is unfair. While many amateurs/hobbyists (myself included) will be the purchasers of 6Ds, I don't see why event photographers needing to replace a 5Dc or 5Dii wouldn't think this camera would work for them.

+1  I'm not sure where the idea that pro photographers have tons of money came from.  Sure some pro photographers have done very well for themselves, and can afford the 1Dx (or have their company buy it for them).  However, a small town wedding photographer who charges $1000 a shoot and does maybe 20-30 weddings a year, just can't afford to go with all 1Dx bodies - getting two cameras and the high end lenses would eat more than half his/her entire earnings. Even two 5D3s + lenses would be pushing it.

If I was going to start shooting pro studio/portraits or landscape (for prints), I think the 6D would be more than capable - subject to the limits my skill.  Just look at how many pros are shooting with the 5D2 and getting amazing results.
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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 01:32:18 PM »
If I was going to start shooting pro studio/portraits or landscape (for prints), I think the 6D would be more than capable - subject to the limits my skill.  Just look at how many pros are shooting with the 5D2 and getting amazing results.

In fairness to the stellar 1dx/5d3 af, nobody knows how many shots of a pro are lost with the 6d/5d2 af system and which situations aren't even attempted to be shot with only center point af.

But it's indeed strange that the market always has to be divided in easily understandable segments - it's the same with computers: The one that qualified as a pro workstation 5 years before now cannot even be used for typing a letter, or so it seems.

What makes the 6d usable for professional shots imho is that the center point af is much more precise than 60d/7d and more precise than the 5d2, and even the latter seemed to have done ok even during weddings and events.

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2012, 01:32:18 PM »

Chuck Alaimo

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 03:31:37 PM »
Professional Sports/journalism/wildlife: 1D X
Professional Studio/portrait/landscape: 1Ds Mark III
Professional Weddings/multipurpose camera: 5D Mark III
Amateur Sports/wildlife or for a Pro instead of a TC: 7D
Amateur Portrait/Landscape: 6D

If you want to lock the focus in extreme low light:
1. choice: 1D X
2. choice: 5D Mark III
3. 6D.


The 1D X and 5D Mark III can lock the focus in low light while the 6D is giving up.


what i don't get is why in this breakdown you list the 6d as only for amateur portrait/landscape but also list it as one of the 3 bodies to get to lock focus in extreme low light?  Wouldn't that mean the 6d is also a very capable wedding photographer camera?  From what I see now, the only reason the 6d may not be a 'pro' body as you say is durability, and on that note, no one can really answer that just yet.  People who are buying one right now may have a better response on that issue next year around this time. 

Also, didn't that reuters best of 2012 list tell the story as for journalism?  the most used camera was the 5d2 (and from what i saw, it was a 5d2 +16-35mm combo).  I'd say that trend will continue, in 2013 that list will most likely still have a bunch of 5d2's, but it will also have 6d's and 5d3's (and it's doubtful the 1dx will be in that list)  For sure the 1dx will win for sports shooting due to the better AF tracking and higher fps, but for the cost I'd say bodies in the 2-3.5k range will dominate because they offer more than enough features at a reasonable price point. 

Said it before and say it again, sometimes I think we apply the word 'pro' to a product only due to price (many argue that the 5d2 isn't actually a pro body!)
Owns 5Dmkiii, 6D, 16-35mm, 24mm 1.4, 70-200mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 85 mm 1.8, 100mm 2.8 macro, 1-600RT, 2 430 EX's, 1 video light

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Re: 6D hands-on reviews by many websites..
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2012, 03:31:37 PM »