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Author Topic: EOS 7D mrk. II  (Read 33491 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2011, 01:24:00 PM »
I'll bet that the 7DII gets a 21-24 MP sensor...and that's about all except for relatively minor changes (like the updated sensor cleaning system).  The 7D already has the best AF system outside of the 1-series, there is no need at all for Canon to update it. 
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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #45 on: October 23, 2011, 01:24:00 PM »

photophreek

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #46 on: October 23, 2011, 01:43:11 PM »
I agree with Neuro.  Minor upgrades for the 7d II and that's probably the best we'll see. 

I'll probably get all kinds of reaction to this next comment......but, I think Canon went overboard with the 7d.  The camera was probably designed by camera enthusiasts at Canon rather than accountants.  Canon could have released the camera with fewer features in 2008 and then released a version II with added features and functions to end up with the current 7d. 

Given that the 1D X won't be available until March 2012, Canon won't announce a 5D III until just before the release date of the 1D X.  This timeline will give the market the time to decide which to buy.  The actual release date of the 5D III won't happen until at least three to six months after the release date of the 1D X.  This timeframe will give the market time to purchase the 1D X and production to catch up with demand. 

As a result, don't expect a 7d replacement to be announced much before spring of 2013 and release to the public in the summer of 2013.  My 2 cents and BTW, I certainly don't know any more than anyone else.  I'm very happy with my 7d just the way it is.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 01:46:34 PM by photophreek »

Heidrun

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #47 on: October 23, 2011, 02:37:55 PM »
The one thing i dont understand if 7D mk II comes along in a year or so. Why then put in old technology like the one in 1D mk IV. They should put in the technology of 1DX . A light 1D X maybe

tt

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #48 on: October 23, 2011, 03:40:54 PM »
If we agree that by Spring 2012, we'll have the 650D updated to a DIGIC V (and it's already 18MP, so will they backtrack and give it the better sensor with lower pixels? PowerShot have DIGIC V, so pretty certain for the 650D) and also the top end 1D and 1D-s lines merged into the 1D-X.


1D-X £5,300

Big gulf of £3,500

5D Mark II £1,600

7D £1,100

60D £800

650D £600

Seems like the November event will be interesting to give more clarity to the possible rejiggering of line up? Will they announce basically the 5D Mark III as a video sided camera, then use the 7D for the non-video updated models?

I'm looking to buy a 7D, and agree it's well specced already for the price. But will a lack of the tick box updates happening at the low end and high end not be weird for a consumer - you can buy a 650D with a DIGIC V, but the middle SLRs have to wait a year?
« Last Edit: October 23, 2011, 03:51:51 PM by tt »

ferdi

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #49 on: October 23, 2011, 04:09:51 PM »
I could live with a few minor upgrades.
Another wish is a battery grip with a joystick.
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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2011, 11:00:13 PM »
Hoping the max ISO climbs... and the mega pixels a bit higher too!

I will try to keep my gear greed to a minimum when they start to announce it, but, probably I'll fail and jump headlong onto the pre-order bad wagon! (Yes, I love my 7D's that well!)
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photophreek

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2011, 11:20:55 PM »
i agree that a new 7d grip with a joystick would be a really nice addition.  I wouldn't wait to buy a 7d thinking that the ver 2 will be out soon.  If you wait for the ver 2, you might be waiting quite a while when the current version is pretty darn good.

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2011, 11:20:55 PM »

pelebel

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2011, 11:44:21 PM »
Why upgrading the 7D? It's an absolute BEAST, far better than the 5D mkII (apart from it's FF sensor)
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pj1974

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #53 on: October 24, 2011, 01:39:29 AM »
The current Canon 7D is indeed a great photographer's tool, and I think Canon raised the bar significantly when it was released as the 'king of the APS-C' cameras. I really like my 7D - and use it for taking photos from a whole range of photographic genres, from wildlife to landscape to 'events' to macro and a bit of everything in between.  There is not much that it can't do very well - though of course for a number of dedicated applications full frame has some advantages.  ;)

For sure I would like to take a 'sneak peek' into the future and know what changes will be incorporated into the 7D mk II, and when. If the 7D mk II will be released by April 2012, I do not believe there will be many significant changes with respect to: body layout, AF, Megapixel count, or FPS, though Canon may have decided to make minor tweaks on any of these aspects.

My speculation about possible changes for a Q2 2012 are:
 - use of the DIGIC V processor (one for processing) while maintaining 1 processor for AF (maybe a DIGIC IV)
 - a newer sensor with improved noise characteristics / higher dynamic range
 - possibly higher ISO range, eg up to 51,200
 - some changes to video (perhaps continual AF and higher resolution / frame rate combinations)
 - a number of software changes (eg menus, in-camera processing of some image characteristics)
 - perhaps more advanced live-view functionality
 - some connectivity / peripheral upgrades (wireless / wired and flash control)

I see such a 7D mk II being a modest refinement of an already very 'fine' camera. Perhaps less of an improvement than the 5D Mk II was to the 5D. This is just my opinion, if they aim to release the 7D mk II April 2012, in time for the 2012 London Olympics, it will be the 'non-professionals' choice of a very good camera.  8)

However if a 7D mk II will be released after the Olympics, (eg October 2012, or even in 2013) - I believe we might see more significant changes possibly in the FPS and AF departments. The 7D enjoys very good popularity, and Canon will currently be realising a lot of continuing profits for this as a key prosumer APS-C camera. I do not expect that Canon will change the 7D mk XX sensor size from a APS-C (I hope not... for my purposes I like it as it is, and I have a number of high quality APS-C dedicated lenses!) I certainly don't need a 'new' or better camera... but like I expect a lot of people on these forums, I'm curious about any future DSLRs.  ???

That's my 2 cents worth.

Paul
I'm not a brand-fanatic. What I do appreciate is using my 7D and 350D cameras along with a host of lenses & many accessories to capture quality photos, and share with friends.

unfocused

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #54 on: October 24, 2011, 11:31:08 AM »
I'll bet that the 7DII gets a 21-24 MP sensor...and that's about all except for relatively minor changes (like the updated sensor cleaning system).  The 7D already has the best AF system outside of the 1-series, there is no need at all for Canon to update it.

Two weeks ago, I would have agreed with that. Now, with the 1D X, I'm not so sure.

Some thoughts:

Canon learned the dangers of incremental upgrades with the 50D. Great camera, but most 40D users didn't see enough of an improvement to upgrade and the DSLR market had matured sufficiently that there weren't enough new buyers for the 50D. They decided to push the envelope with the 7D and it worked.

Rather than go for incremental upgrades every two years, I see Canon lengthening the refresh cycle and making significant changes in order to convince existing owners to upgrade. For the sake of my checking account, I'd like to skip the 7D Mark II and wait for the Mark III.  But that's not in Canon's best interests. I see them making changes in the Mark II to entice current 7D owners to upgrade.

At the same time, with the end of the APS-H format, and with the reduction in megapixels with the 1D X, Canon may be waiting to see what kind of blow back they get from sports and wildlife photographers. They may decide to position the next 7D as a second-body camera for pros who need longer reach in the field. Or, they could even offer a 7D X (one-piece body and grip with full weather-sealing, slightly faster frame-rate, but otherwise functionally the same as the 7D Mark II).

So, I ask myself, what features would entice me to upgrade to the Mark II?

My wish list is short, but similar to others on this forum:

  • Sensor improvements that emphasize reduced noise, higher ISO and more dynamic range; and

  • An even better auto-focus system (Granted the autofocus system on the 7D is the most sophisticated outside of the 1D series, but it could be improved. It is tricky to learn and not always intuitive. As this forum and others have shown, it can be very frustrating for users and simply chalking it up to "user error" doesn't really address the problem. A "baby 1D X" system would be a welcome addition.

Almost everything else is just gravy, including more megapixels.

Customer satisfaction with the 7D is very high. I think Canon will take their time before releasing a Mark II version and make it a significant upgrade that becomes a "must have" for current 7D owners.

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neuroanatomist

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2011, 01:38:41 PM »
Rather than go for incremental upgrades every two years, I see Canon lengthening the refresh cycle and making significant changes in order to convince existing owners to upgrade.

I wonder... 

The 7D is somewhat unique in recent years, for Canon - the first introduction of a new line.  So, it's hard to base conclusions on that.  But, Canon has a very long history of incremental updates to existing lines.  If a strong business case could be made for more significant but less frequent updates, I think they'd have changed to that model long ago.  For any given model that is an update to an xxD or higher line, I wonder what percent of buyers owned the previous version of the line, vs. what percent owned a different line.  I'm sure that Canon has hard data (from product registrations) that address that question, and that may be exactly what underlies the incremental updates we usually see. 

So, does the 7DII need to be made most attractive to 7D owners, or rather, does it need to be most attractive to 50D/60D and T2i/550D/T3i/600D owners?  Which would generate more sales dollars/yen for Canon?  Given that xxxD owners vastly outnumber 7D owners, I suspect it's the latter.  I think we saw that in the specs of the 60D, which was pretty clearly aimed at Rebel/xxxD owners, not as an upgrade for 50D users, who were instead pushed to the 7D.

Canon sells far, far more Rebel/xxxD bodies than any other camera line.  For the last 4 years, that line has been on an annual release schedule (and before that, 18 months).  Given the current consumer marketplace, and Canon's financial reports projecting increases in revenue from dSLRs, I suspect they'll stick to the annual timetable for the xxxD's.  Now, the Rebel line is clearly not intended to induce people to upgrade from one body to the next within that series, so incremental improvements are just fine.  But there has to be something that sounds improved, in the name of progress if nothing else. 

The problem is that those annual, incremental updates add up. It simply wouldn't do for those small updates to allow an xxxD camera seem to close the gap to the 7D over time.  So, Canon will be constrained to update the 7D fairly soon.  For example, I'd assume the T4i/650D will come out in 1Q2012 and will use Digic5.  That leaves Canon two choices regarding the sensor.  They could reuse the same sensor in the 7D (making three successive xxxD releases with that sensor), which with Digic5 would likely produce less noisy images than the 7D.  Or, Canon could release a newer sensor than that found in the 7D, meaning in the eyes of many people (the 1D X's 18 MP notwithstanding), the new xxxD would be 'better' than the 7D.  If they choose the former, they might risk a perception problem os going 'stale' by using the same sensor for too many cameras.  If they choose the latter, it really forces the 7D hand.  Could they even debut a new APS-C sensor in the xxxD, then reuse that 'old' sensor in a 7DII?  Or would they use MP as a differentiator, and have a 21 MP APS-C for the new xxxD, followed soon by a 24 MP 7DII?
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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2011, 04:20:03 PM »
You know, after reading this thread, it got me thinking... what else would we really want this camera to do?  GPS?  WIFI?  make coffee?  seriously?  It makes me wonder if Canon will ever start invoking the old VW model where they pump out a basic shell of a camera for real cheap that has what most people would want to function but offer add ons... Want an 18MP sensor?  ok that's an additional $200... Want an 21mp sensor?  $250, etc... you want basic AF, comes equiped... You want 19PT AF... an additional $200 unlocked through optional firmware... you want 45 pt... etc... To be honest I cant think of what else I would want my camera to do that's not already included and this could be exactly what could make most people happy... offer options that are either user replaceable or software replaceable... Computers you can change/add memory, if you're savvy enough you can change your own chips, boards, etc... you can customize them to your hearts delights... I could add more jobs at authorized camera stores to do these upgrades for you (like computer store upgrades) and people pay for what they want to use... Just floating the idea..  Red in some fashion employs a similar philosophy... why not evolve the camera industry to do the same...
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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2011, 06:04:39 PM »
I think there will be a 7D MkII in the 2-3 year cycle of that particular product.  It will not be a minor update either there will be oodles of goodies within.

Why?

Good question!

    The 7D (as it stands) is the flagship APS-C camera for Canon.  As far as we all know this is not going to change.

    There are quite a few APS-C DSLR's underneath the 7D and these are, with each iteration, getting closer to the 7D in many areas (and may exceed in some too)

    As it is a flag ship product ... then by rights it needs to be the one that leads the pack in that segment

So we all know that many of the lower level APS-C DSLR's are on a 2-3 year refresh.  Thus the 7D needs to keep up with these or it gets overtaken ... and from a marketing perspective that's just horrible for both Canon and those looking to stay with the 7D line.

What will it have? Who knows, but what the 7D is good for now, will also be true in the future, but with the DIGIC V's and other improvements seen in the 1DX it would be safe to say that a bump in MP's and IQ would be top of the list (whilst keeping wildlife and sports shooters happy with the current FPS offered).

Pretty simple really.  You just need to look at where the 7D is aimed ... knowing it the high end camera for that market and it all falls into place quite easily.

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2011, 06:04:39 PM »

ianhar

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2011, 10:10:54 PM »
I know people are getting excited with all the upgrade they in the 7d mark ii, but if all this update come true, high mp, high fps, better af(which is already is), better build quality(which is already is), weather sealed(which is already is), amazing high iso performance, faster cpu speed, wifi or gps(why do we need this again?) and many other things that are common in the wish list. All of these thing will cost alot. Dont dreaming on to get all of this and just want to pay $1500 for it. You want better iso performance, higher mp this and that but are not willing to pay. That would be ridiculous. So please make some logical analysis before making your wishlist.

Unless 7d will beome the next 1d, i dont think there will be a lot of improvement. If 7d will become the next 7d ie a camera targeted to the professional wildlife and action photography who need extra reach than the ff then i believe a lot of improvement will be done to the 7d but it will cost a lot more than you pay now.

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2011, 10:33:50 PM »
Canon and others make incremental updates every couple of years because new buyers want what they see as a recent model, not a 3 or 4 year old model.  A incremental upgrade is not expected to draw big numbers of existing owners, but rather compete with new models from the competition.

We see lots of people asking if they should buy now or wait, this validates Canon's practice of incremental updates because first time buyers want a recent model.

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Re: EOS 7D mrk. II
« Reply #59 on: October 24, 2011, 10:33:50 PM »