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Author Topic: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?  (Read 8371 times)

MichaelTheMaven

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6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« on: December 09, 2012, 03:10:11 AM »
Im going to put this out there simply because I think the writing is on the wall for the 5Dii. At $300 cost difference, is there any major functionality that the 5Dii has over the 6D? I have been asked by at least 2 dozen different people which is the better camera, and after my tests this week, I can't think of a good reason to recommend the 5Dii over the 6D, which is crazy, the 5Dii has been like my right arm for 4 years.

I did some moire tests on the 5Dii vs 6D, they are both pretty bad, but the ISO noise tests were impressive, the 6D even out performed the 5DIII's higher video noise. I posted some of the results here:

http://youtu.be/C5wCSSEi3rs

I did full range high ISO noise tests on the 5Dii, 5Diii, 6D and Nikon D600. The 6D's is by far the cleanest once you go over 3200. (Below that is harder to tell).

I also took a bunch of High ISO RAW images with all 4 cameras and will be making them available for download next week  on my Blog if you guys want to play with them. (Think RAW noise banding type tests).

Is there anything else you guys want me to test?

MM

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6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« on: December 09, 2012, 03:10:11 AM »

Sporgon

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2012, 03:56:51 AM »
Micheal, at Building Panoramics use both mk1 and mk2, but we're always shooting at as low an ISO as possible. However as you've used the Mk 2 for years and have now tested the 6D, I have a question regarding the build quality of the 6D. The pentaprism housing on both our cameras has taken a beating over the years, which is why I detest pop up flashes on serious DSLR's. All credit to Canon on keeping this vile, weak plastic feature off it's FF cameras.

How do you find the plastic top plate affects the 6D's build ? Does it feel compromised compared with the mk2 ?

We also use manual focusing screens and don't like the translucent LCD fixed screen of the mk3 which makes manual focus even more difficult.

Thanks

Marsu42

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2012, 05:40:44 AM »
At $300 cost difference, is there any major functionality that the 5Dii has over the 6D?

1/8000s shutter, 1/200 x-sync, 150k shutter cycles (150% (!) of 6d). Esp. the x-sync might matter to some since even 1/200s is pretty slow for stop-motion (hss cannot do that and is weaker at distance in bright light). And the big question is how long the shutter of the 6d will actually last, i.e. if the lower rating is just marketing - if not, the difference to the 5d3 might be "worth it" for longevity alone when shooting bursts, brackets, hdr and so on.

If you are looking for other smart answers for questions your readers are asking :-> what the 6d is actually good at, look here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0

Is there anything else you guys want me to test?

Sharpness of the 6d - the 5d3 has more chroma noise, but I suspect part of the difference 5d3 vs 6d is that the latter has in-camera chroma noise reduction even for raw files, but at the cost of some sharpness. If you allow for that possibility, the advantage of the 6d is a lot smaller, esp. after a little downsizing 22mp->20mp.

Denisas Pupka

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2012, 07:07:45 AM »
Michael, thank you for nice review. Great ISO performance, +1 for 6D, because I already started  considering 6D vs 5D mark3, but I do want lighter camera, control with one had + wifi (especially hopes that wifi will be working with video in future). I heard some talks around, that 6D sharper in video mode than mark3, and thats why it have more moire. From your test have you seen any difference? Thank you.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 08:13:00 AM by Denisas Pupka »

ScottyP

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2012, 10:18:25 AM »
6d Focus lag in dark using speed lite WITH AF ASSIST BEAM. Compared to same with 5d3. Please.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 10:21:12 AM by ScottyP »
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EOBeav

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2012, 11:27:08 AM »
Yeah, my big question is more about build quality than anything else. The 5DmkII is a tank and has held up pretty reliably in the field. The 6D seems to be Rebelized a bit in that regard. IQ for both are likely a wash. If you can't take good images with one, you won't be able to get good images with the other. They will likely be sunsetting the 5DmkII, but it's too bad they can't keep it around with a 'legacy' or 'classic' moniker of some kind.
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RS2021

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 11:52:47 AM »
Sharpness of the 6d - the 5d3 has more chroma noise, but I suspect part of the difference 5d3 vs 6d is that the latter has in-camera chroma noise reduction even for raw files, but at the cost of some sharpness. If you allow for that possibility, the advantage of the 6d is a lot smaller, esp. after a little downsizing 22mp->20mp.

+1
Looking at the comparisons so far, clearly canon had to trade/balance sharpness and NR at high ISO with the 6D. And his reference to 5d3 is peripheral... So his conclusions on old 5d2 hopefully is not overstreched to 5d3 in this thread... but the writing on the wall for the old 5d2 is clear...canon will ease it out to pasture and 6d will substitute it in short order. And canon will not want a replacement body that performs just at or significantly below their 3 year old horse... So 6d will up the ante a tad on sensor performance and will have newer features as well to hold the market share. So his conclusions on 5d2 vs 6d is fairly valid and will probably hold.

It is rather more contentious if someone is trying to decide between 6d and the new warmed up offering... 5d3.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2012, 11:56:46 AM by Ray2021 »
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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2012, 11:52:47 AM »

MichaelTheMaven

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2012, 04:24:09 PM »
Thanks for the feedback guys, I plan on doing much more testing and a separate video for the 5Diii vs 6D for that very reason, those camera pairs need to be compared individually.

The 5Diii is absolutely a better overall camera than the 6D in my opinion, not even close because of the focusing system alone. Still the low light performance of the 6D is impressive. I did a full high ISO test side by side of the 6D with the 5Diii and will post those in my comparison of the two, 6D has an edge only on that, but yes- there is some sharpness loss. Hard to say black and white which is better in that one regard.

Two of you asked about the build of the 6D, to which I can say it feels...best word is probably "dense". It's smaller and lighter, but also very solid. I actually like the feel of it very much. The 5Diii is much wider, and thicker, which isn't a problem for me, Im liking the compact size of the 6D. Haven't banged it around enough to say that its a weak construction, but somewhat feels very denser compared to the 5Dii.

Moire on the 6D was not very impressive. 5Diii is absolutely much better.

I can line up the 5Diii tests this week if you guys are interested.

Thanks for the feedback and please keep the questions coming- Ill test as much as I can fit into a good video.

MM



Denisas Pupka

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2012, 04:56:37 PM »
I can line up the 5Diii tests this week if you guys are interested.
Thanks for the feedback and please keep the questions coming- Ill test as much as I can fit into a good video.

MM
Would like to see if theres any different in video sharpness 6D vs MarkIII and is it possible to add sharpening in post like for Mark3. Thanks.

MichaelTheMaven

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2012, 02:00:26 AM »
I can test for video sharpness. I need to point out, the 6D has the same compression settings as the 5DIII (All-I, IPB). Image quality does not appear to be identical, the moire on the 5Diii looks significantly cleaner to me, but I will do some different sharpness tests of the 5Diii vs 6D this week for those interested.

M

ScottyP

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #10 on: December 10, 2012, 08:34:10 AM »
Michael,

I am sure you have read the posts here and even on Canon's own forum site about 5d3 + 600 EX = slower AF.

Actually, it seems to be all speedlites, and the specific problem is the AF assist beam being too weak, or maybe the camera body's autofocus being too insensitive to dim light.

Supposedly the 5d2 did not have this long lag with the AF beam flashing and buzzing for focus in dim light, but 5d3 does.

Canon does not directly acknowledge the problem.  Marsu has been pretty vocal on this, but so have many others.

I would love to see if the 6D is better at this exact specific thing; AF in dim light using AF assist beam.  I don't know too many people that have both cameras, so you are in a position to comment on this issue.  If the problem is real, and the 6D does not suffer from it I think I will buy 6D. 

Thanks!
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 08:38:29 AM by ScottyP »
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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #11 on: December 10, 2012, 08:39:38 AM »
I can test for video sharpness. I need to point out, the 6D has the same compression settings as the 5DIII (All-I, IPB). Image quality does not appear to be identical, the moire on the 5Diii looks significantly cleaner to me, but I will do some different sharpness tests of the 5Diii vs 6D this week for those interested.

M

Would you say that the 6D has better moire handling, or "more pleasant looking" moire compared to the old 5D mark II?
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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 01:37:20 PM »
I am sure you have read the posts here and even on Canon's own forum site about 5d3 + 600 EX = slower AF. Actually, it seems to be all speedlites, and the specific problem is the AF assist beam being too weak, or maybe the camera body's autofocus being too insensitive to dim light.

That can't be it since the 1dx does ok, and even many 5d3 seem to do ok so it really might be a hardware issue - but the neighboring thread has more facts.

Canon does not directly acknowledge the problem.  Marsu has been pretty vocal on this, but so have many others.

Have I :-> ? Well, I admit, before I decide to pay nearly €3000 for a camera I want to know if it does ok for the things I want to do with it, and that includes barely lit events with flash(es) - so I would really like to see this issue cleared up either way.

Until then, I think people should be hesitant to recommend the 5d3 as the "best overall camera".

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #12 on: December 10, 2012, 01:37:20 PM »

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #13 on: December 10, 2012, 02:35:22 PM »
Yeah, my big question is more about build quality than anything else. The 5DmkII is a tank and has held up pretty reliably in the field. The 6D seems to be Rebelized a bit in that regard. IQ for both are likely a wash. If you can't take good images with one, you won't be able to get good images with the other. They will likely be sunsetting the 5DmkII, but it's too bad they can't keep it around with a 'legacy' or 'classic' moniker of some kind.
I wouldn't call the 5DII exactly a tank. I work on the water over 100 days a years and I need something that's quite well weather-sealed. I use 1DS and 1D bodies for almost everything, and, although I have a 5DII, after my first experience with it, I've learned that some pieces of gear need to be left ashore. Even my 7D, which supposedly is the best-sealed other than the 1D series, has broken down on two occasions in little more than six months of use.
I would suspect with the 6D certain economies have been made, and that the build quality at best would be no more than that of the 5DII. 

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 03:34:38 PM »
I recently found some 5D2's for 1200$ on craigslist. I could almost squeeze 2x 5D2's for one 6D.

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Re: 6D vs 5Dii - The End of an Era?
« Reply #14 on: December 10, 2012, 03:34:38 PM »