Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?

[Helevitia]

Back in May I upgraded from a Rebel XTi to a 7D with the anticipation that a new FF camera was going to come out sooner than later.  I would sell my 7D and upgrade to whatever was nice and new. Sure enough, the 6D was announced.  As a lot of people, I wasn't too thrilled with the initial specs of the 6D, but I am slowly starting to like what I'm reading.

I love the 7D.  I think it's an amazing camera with one exception.  I think it has too much noise.  For that reason alone, I really want to upgrade.  That being said, I'm not so sure I'll be happier with a FF camera.  I mean, the build quality of the 7D seems really good to me and people are saying the 6D is closer to a 60D.  Am I reading too much into this from a build quality perspective?  I don't really need the fast fps, but it sure is fun to have.  I am also worried about missing out on the advantage of having a cropped sensor.  My walk around lens is the 70-200mm II.  I love this lens.  The pictures are extremely sharp and it has great clarity.  Will this lens be even better on the 6D?

I know the images will look cleaner, sharper and nicer on the 6D.  I mostly shoot landscape and people, but not really portraits.  I do occasionally record video.  Obviously I don't need a 5D3.  I'm not a professional and I don't pay attention to every single feature of my camera.  I'm still learning a lot and still getting used to shooting in manual+RAW.  And I know a lot of people in here will laugh at me for this, but I use LR as a crutch to make my pictures look better while I get better at picture taking   But hey, that's the truth.

I guess the bottom line is, I want really good image quality.  I want it to look sharp, clear, and as little noise as possible.  Here's are two pics I took with my 7D and 70-200mm II.  Any critique is welcomed.  Thanks!

[verysimplejason]

Nice pics...  Though if it were me, I'd apply a little bit of EV compensation and a little bit of warmth but that's my preference.  Some would prefer it just as you had rendered it.

I think 6D will be perfect for your 70-200 especially since your preference is portraiture.  I'd suggest though to get a proper portrait lens in order to maximize 6D/FF bokehliciousness.  An 85mm F1.8 or 100mm F2 comes immediately to mind especially if you're mindful of your budget.  Otherwise, 85mm F1.2L and 135mm F2.0L are better alternatives.  Any FF body will shine in portraits and landscape.

[AvTvM]

...
I love the 7D.  I think it's an amazing camera with one exception.  I think it has too much noise.  For that reason alone, I really want to upgrade. 
...
I know the images will look cleaner, sharper and nicer on the 6D. 
...
I mostly shoot landscape and people, but not really portraits. 
...
I'm not a professional and I don't pay attention to every single feature of my camera. 
...
I guess the bottom line is, I want really good image quality.  I want it to look sharp, clear, and as little noise as possible.  Here's are two pics I took with my 7D and 70-200mm II.  Any critique is welcomed.  Thanks!

I see no noise problem whatsoever in your sample pictures.
I see no problem with lack of sharpness in your pictures.
I see no other problem in your picture that would be resolved by using a 6D or any other 36x24mm sensor camera.
I do not believe your pictures will be any better than this with a 6D, a 5D 3 or a 1D-X.

You can shoot the 70-200 at f/2.8 ... it is sharp enough. No need to close aperture to f/4.0.
You can further improve your skills in catching the perfect moment capturing persons in motion with the 7D. It is a perfect tool for that task. It is way faster, way more responsive and has a way better AF-system than the  sluggish and totally compromised 6d. Switch your 7D to fast series speed and take short bursts of 4-5 pics in situations like the one you captured.
You can also further improve your compositional skills without needing a new "FF" camera.

Biggest improvement factor I see is to fruther develop your photographic eye and your ability to capture the moment. All it takes is some self-criticial analysis and lots of practice. Wish you all the best in that task.

[serendipidy]

+1

Good advice. I was thinking exactly what you just said. His photos are terrific. But a lot of people, me included, think they must get the latest and greatest new toys.

[tomscott]

Well strictly speaking they are completely different animals, chalk and cheese.

I am currently selling my 7D and replacing it with a 5D MKIII but was taking some pics of it with my old 40D for the advert and I thought man... this is much harder to focus and compose with. I remember when I bought the 7D and was overwhelmed by the amount of AF points but when you get used to it its brilliant. Going back to less points would just make life much harder when your used to more choice. I was going to keep the 40D as a back up but although I used to love it, it just really doesn't do anything for me anymore.

TBH the noise really isnt awful on a 7D if you print massive images then yes but if you are sticking to A4-A3 they are fine. Made an A2 print of mine the other week at ISO3200 and I was pretty impressed after seeling on screen it has too much noise. Its so easy to pixel peep. Infact coming from the 40D I was pleased with the higher ISO results but really disappointed with 100-400.

Another thing is that the 6D will feel slooooowww compared to the 7D especially trying to keep up with your kids. It depends how you feel, for an amateur the 7D is more than a great camera. But I dont think the 6D is the correct upgrade path and you will miss a lot of the features. Which is why the 5D is a more attractive option and the price difference I would save another few months and buy that instead.

If you were just doing Landscapes or still life I would say yes. But more than often you will be chasing the kids and you will find that one sensitive point in the middle wont be enough and those nice compositions wont be focused correctly in those fast situations. IQ is important but a camera is made of more than just IQ I think the 7D experience will be better and IQ doesnt sell that camera to me. Needs to have elements of the previous camera or you will miss it. Build quality weather sealed the class of cameras are completely different.

Other option is to wait for the new 7D MKII. Although a lot of cameras, the choice is still hard but still think the 5D MKIII is the best all round camera ever made.

[Marsu42]

It is way faster, way more responsive and has a way better AF-system than the sluggish and totally compromised 6d.

Um, the 6d has the same fast shutter release time as the 5d3, or what is "responsive" exactly?

[wellfedCanuck]

You people characterizing the 6D as "slooooowww " or knocking the AF- have you actually tested one? Until there are some reputable reviews out there or you have personal experience with the camera- you're just spreading misinformation.

[jmatzen]

I am also worried about missing out on the advantage of having a cropped sensor. 

I signed up an account just to comment on this.  There is *no* advantage to a crop sensor.  How would you feel if you had FF camera, but the camera cropped the picture before it saved it to the card?  You would feel cheated!  Same deal, only it's a physical limitation.

Source:  I am a senior optical engineer.

[zim]

I am also worried about missing out on the advantage of having a cropped sensor. 

I signed up an account just to comment on this.  There is *no* advantage to a crop sensor.  How would you feel if you had FF camera, but the camera cropped the picture before it saved it to the card?  You would feel cheated!  Same deal, only it's a physical limitation.

Source:  I am a senior optical engineer.

Oh oh... popcorn out and sitting comfortably 

[birtembuk]

I am also worried about missing out on the advantage of having a cropped sensor. 

I signed up an account just to comment on this.  There is *no* advantage to a crop sensor.  How would you feel if you had FF camera, but the camera cropped the picture before it saved it to the card?  You would feel cheated!  Same deal, only it's a physical limitation.

Source:  I am a senior optical engineer.

Oh oh... popcorn out and sitting comfortably 

hehehe .....

[ecka]

I am also worried about missing out on the advantage of having a cropped sensor. 

I signed up an account just to comment on this.  There is *no* advantage to a crop sensor.  How would you feel if you had FF camera, but the camera cropped the picture before it saved it to the card?  You would feel cheated!  Same deal, only it's a physical limitation.

Source:  I am a senior optical engineer.

I agree. Smaller sensor size is not an advantage, it's a compromise. However, higher pixel density is an advantage for cropping and APS-C sensor is physically limited to do only that - capturing 40% of the FF image.

[Area256]

I just upgraded from a 60D to a 6D.   I haven't used a 7D, so do take that into account.  Although since the sensor is about the same between the 60D and 7D, that part should be safe for me to compare.

First sharpness: I don't see any sharpness issues in your images.  Also remember that sharpness is affected by lighting, contrast, depth of field, and motion blur.  I think people tend to obsess over sharpness more than needed - great photos have awesome lighting and composition and tell a story or relay an emotion - and that comes from photographic skill and not sharpness.  Having said that the resolving power of a full frame is much better - you will capture more fine details on a full-frame.

Noise: The 6D is about 1.5 to 2 stops better than the 60D.  I find I can shoot at ISO 3200 and get results that look as good as ISO 800 on the 60D.  And ISO 400 is just as good as ISO 100 on the 60D - which means I can shoot at ISO 400, and set my shutter speed 2 stops faster - which is great for action shots.   Also when I say 2-stops better that's comparing the amount of noise I see in RAW files.  However the real world advantage is actually a little better since with more detail you can apply more NR and still keep the minimum required detail for most applications.

AF: I'm finding the AF on the 6D to be very good, it's at least as fast as the 60D to lock focus, and clearly faster in low light.  However my understanding is that the 7D has a great AF system for tracking moving subjects which are off center.  So if you are finding you use the tracking AF a lot, and/or are using the points far from the center of the frame, you may want to keep the 7D for that.  I find that with tuning, you can make the 6D's tracking fairly good, however you have to keep your subject near the center of the frame.

Speed and fps: The speed in terms of shutter lag, focus lock time, play back, ect. are all great.  In terms of fps well it's slower than other cameras, the 7D should get almost twice as many frames if you shoot in burst mode.

Build quality: The 7D is a tank, just check out some of the DigitalRev videos on it.  However, I'm quite pleased with my 6D's build quality, I can't see having any problems with it lasting for years.

Do I miss the crop sensor, not at all.  However I don't shoot at the far end of my lenses very much.  If you are often shooting at 200mm, and find that's not long enough, than the 7D will give you a small advantage there in terms of pixel density.  However if you just take your 6D file and crop it, you'll get fairly close to the same result.  And you get the advantage of having the 70mm giving a 70mm FOV, which could be useful depending on how you shoot.

Bottom line: Yes, the IQ in terms of noise and detail resolution is better on the 6D.  The AF is fast, but keep in mind the spread is limited.  I can work with the limited spread with limited "focus-and-recompose", but you'll have to consider how/what you shoot, and see if you could work with it or not.

[coreyhkh]

I you just take pictures of people and stuff then the 6d would be fine. Anything else then the 7D kills the 6D, also people complain about the noise on the 7D far too much, generally if you take a good picture and no Photoshop then its not a problem.

[verysimplejason]

I you just take pictures of people and stuff then the 6d would be fine. Anything else then the 7D kills the 6D, also people complain about the noise on the 7D far too much, generally if you take a good picture and no Photoshop then its not a problem.

I think more accurately, if you take good pictures in good light then 7D definitely is better than 6D.  But in low-light, 6D is far superior than 7D.  I've got a 500D and I think this is comparable to 7D ISO performance.  I only raise the ISO to 1600 if it's the last option.  3200, only if I really need to get the shot.  I always envy my friend who's using a 5D2 and doesn't have any trouble going to 6400.  There are also times that you want to raise your ISO for stopping the motion.  Even if you've got a great AF, if you don't stop the motion or at least pan, it's useless.  Just recently, I've shoot my daughter's theatrical concert and almost all of my shots are taken @ 1600 and 3200.  I asked the organizer why the stage is so dimly lit.  The pictures though are still usable in the internet but I hesitate to have it displayed in a 40 inches TV monitor to have my relatives view it.  I had just stored them in my IPAD for their viewing.

[Dylan777]

"I want it to look sharp, clear, and as little noise as possible"

My thoughts;

1. Clear & Noise: BIG yes, you'll see HUGE improvement with f2.8 or bigger primes.

2. Sharp: 6D has AFMA feature, that could help to improve sharpness. I suggest you use just the center AF point only for better sharpness. The other outer points on 6D are almost worthless in low light or tracking in AI servo.

3. 6D is a bit smaller than 7D in my hand. It doesn't have the solid feel like 5D II, III, 7D etc...I feel like FF sensor in Rebel chassis.

I'm a 5D III owner and looking for 2nd body. I thought 6D would be a good choice. After 2days using it, I decided NOT to have 6D as a 2nd body.

I'm thinking another 5D III or 1D X