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Author Topic: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?  (Read 16045 times)

earwaxxer

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2012, 03:57:20 PM »
I've been a long time Canon DSLR enthusiast, I now own the 7D. From what I have read about the 6D, I honestly dont see much of draw there, over the 7D. If I was a semipro wedding photographer, who didnt already have a 5D of some incarnation I think the 6D could be a good step in the right direction.

As far as the crop factor, I like it, and take advantage of it with my long lenses for sports etc. I dont think I would want to sacrifice that for FF.

As far as noise, the 7D stays very clean up to about 400 ASA. I live in Arizona, so sunshine is not a problem!

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2012, 03:57:20 PM »

TexPhoto

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2012, 04:36:54 PM »
6D is a wonderful step up in image quality for anyone shooting crop.

6D +7D is an awsome camera set that will give you options on which camera to shoot for the right subject/goal.  So if you have a 7D and can add a 6D by all means do.

5DIII is most of the 6D and 7D combo and is the better choice if you don't already have the 7D.

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #32 on: December 10, 2012, 04:53:45 PM »
Ok...how about now, with the original full images downsized?  I know that I can certainly tell them apart, even at 800x533.

Yeah, you're correct - but I'm usually the one bashing the crop iso performance :-) while others say they can get clean iso1600 or something out of it - but this is only possible if the shot has no dark areas with details.

On that note your (nice) squirrel shots are bit unfair because one has a dark background which of course shows higher shadow noise, and it even seems to be a bit out of focus or blurred ... if you'd use Lightroom's brush with higher +nr or even a bit -clarity on the background the difference at least might look smaller, though at the cost of the work involved.

Btw: I currently have a similar cut shot of a bird as my wallpaper, but only @iso1250 - and even then the background noise is annoying if not postprocessed as written above, that's why I want a ff - if I ever decide which :-p

Botts

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #33 on: December 10, 2012, 04:55:00 PM »
I've been using my 6D for a few days now.

The image quality and increased DOF is phenominal.  Being able to shoot respectable photo's at ISO 6400 is amazing.  I can't wait to take it out for a serious shoot.  Sharpness with the 70-200 f/4 IS is incredible.  The 40mm is also quite surprising.

For shooting events, the silent shutter option will come in very handy as well.

Some things though are really bugging me as an ex 7D user.

The zoom button is killing me.  It's taking me forever to get used to.  The buttons that simply don't exist I got used to easily as they aren't there anymore.  The AF-pattern button is still there though, so I hit it out of habit.

The DOF preview button is also moved which is tougher IMO to press.

Depending on your shooting, not having a hardware button for FEC may be annoying as well.  I'm currently in that boat.

I'm getting used to the AF system not being as good.  The points do seem to be clustered near the center.  The low light performance of the center point blows away the 7D's though.

The drop in FPS didn't affect me as much as I don't shoot sports or birds.  If you're coming from a T2i or similar though, it will still be faster.
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Botts

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #34 on: December 10, 2012, 05:02:24 PM »
6D is a wonderful step up in image quality for anyone shooting crop.

6D +7D is an awsome camera set that will give you options on which camera to shoot for the right subject/goal.  So if you have a 7D and can add a 6D by all means do.

5DIII is most of the 6D and 7D combo and is the better choice if you don't already have the 7D.

Very good points that I agree with.

I decided that I'll keep the money I saved by going 6D not 5D3, and instead of spending it on a lens like most are suggesting, I'll keep it in the hopes that Canon sometime releases a 7D2.  That way if I ever have a hankering to shoot sports or animals I'll have a great camera for that.  I know that when I shot shuttle launches I'd be renting a 7D because the 6D's speed wouldn't cut it.  From 3 miles though, almost everything is par focal, so the AF wouldn't be an issue, just the burst speed.
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tphillips63

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #35 on: December 10, 2012, 05:12:21 PM »
I was never happy with the noise from my 7D and when the 5D Mark III was announced I ordered one and love its results.
I did not know the 6D was coming out but am glad I went to the full frame model.  As Neuro's shots show, there is a huge difference.
Maybe it is pixel peeping, I don't know but I know with the full frame sensor I am much more satisfied in the pictures I get.  I feel they are more, film quality.
I am also coming from being out of photography through the initial digital years and last used a Minolta Maxim 7xi about ten years before I got the 7D.
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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2012, 05:26:59 PM »
So, with the same lens on each body and iso noise not being limiting...
Unfortunately, my experience with the 7D in environments where/when I commonly shoot birds is that ISO noise often is limiting, in particular for the high shutter speed often necessary.

For me (on 60d) the iso noise limit is in my head, that's the annoyance - next to exposure and framing I think about shutter speed/noise tradeoff all the time - either I get less keeper because of camera/motion blur, or the shots are crappy because of too much noise or too shallow dof.

Noise is not limiting when looking back at good shots, but few people state how many shots and opportunities they lost for a good one. That's why I'm really looking forward to a ff sensor. Realistically you can use higher iso even on crop when the final output size is not 100%, but for pixel-level 18mp iso800 is the absolute max that at least gives some air for postprocessing.

Below are a pair of 100% crops from shots at ISO 3200, one from the 1D X and one from the 7D.  I wonder which is which?   ::)

this is the best visual explanation ever. I DREAM of shooting 3200+ without worrying about the limits imposed by crop color noise in post. Besides the outer focus points, these are only my only concerns.

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #36 on: December 10, 2012, 05:26:59 PM »

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #37 on: December 10, 2012, 05:27:37 PM »
The zoom button is killing me.  It's taking me forever to get used to.  The buttons that simply don't exist I got used to easily as they aren't there anymore.  The AF-pattern button is still there though, so I hit it out of habit.

When (and if) Magic Lantern runs on the 6d button remapping will be easier, and the zoom function is much better with ml for example the option to go to 100% with one touch.

The DOF preview button is also moved which is tougher IMO to press.

Canon marketing must have had a field day when they positioned that, nearly the same on the 60d ... I bet they had a contest for the most awkward position, and the guy with the winning design got a free 5d3 because he helped protect that model.

Zlatko

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #38 on: December 10, 2012, 05:55:58 PM »
Maybe it is pixel peeping, I don't know but I know with the full frame sensor I am much more satisfied in the pictures I get.  I feel they are more, film quality.
Film quality?  35mm film was never that good.  :)

Botts

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #39 on: December 10, 2012, 05:56:25 PM »
The zoom button is killing me.  It's taking me forever to get used to.  The buttons that simply don't exist I got used to easily as they aren't there anymore.  The AF-pattern button is still there though, so I hit it out of habit.

When (and if) Magic Lantern runs on the 6d button remapping will be easier, and the zoom function is much better with ml for example the option to go to 100% with one touch.

The DOF preview button is also moved which is tougher IMO to press.

Canon marketing must have had a field day when they positioned that, nearly the same on the 60d ... I bet they had a contest for the most awkward position, and the guy with the winning design got a free 5d3 because he helped protect that model.

Good point with the ML remapping option should that become available.  As an ex-7D user I never had ML available.

I'm 99% sure that the DOF button is in the same place on the 6D as 5D3.
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Krob78

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2012, 07:03:15 PM »
I am also worried about missing out on the advantage of having a cropped sensor. 

I signed up an account just to comment on this.  There is *no* advantage to a crop sensor.  How would you feel if you had FF camera, but the camera cropped the picture before it saved it to the card?  You would feel cheated!  Same deal, only it's a physical limitation.

Source:  I am a senior optical engineer.

Oh oh... popcorn out and sitting comfortably  ::)

hehehe ..... 8)

Here we go~ Weeeee!!!  ::)
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verysimplejason

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2012, 07:14:36 PM »

3. 6D is a bit smaller than 7D in my hand. It doesn't have the solid feel like 5D II, III, 7D etc...I feel like FF sensor in Rebel chassis.

It's small yes, but it's hardly a Rebel chassis.  The Rebel is all plastic, and not very good plastic at that.  It's somewhere between the 60D and 5D3/7D in build quality.  I'm quite sure it'll take more abuse than a Rebel or 60D, if not as much as a 5D3/7D.

+1.  And being small and light isn't always a bad thing.  It's entirely dependent on the user preference.  6D being small and light has its merits.  Just asked those photogs that are tasked to carry their camera from morning till night.  Even a slight weight difference feels like heaven.  I had a lot of times where I shoot at least 3-4 hours straight (with 2 ultra-light lens, 28mm and 55-250 + external flash).  Although I find the IQ of a gripped 500D sometimes lacking, it's heaven compared to an un-gripped 5D2 that I was able to carry and shoot once for 3 hours (wedding + reception) (with a 24-70mm lens + flash).

-1 Rebel, xD and 5D,.....to me the weight of these cameras are not much different - in ounces? The lenses...yes. To have a snug fit camera in the hands is HUGE bonus.

Have you ever mount 70-200 on rebel Vs 7D or 5D?

Yes actually and they felt different.  If all else equal, I'll take a gripped rebel.  Sadly, I also take IQ into consideration. 

I guess you've got a large hand?  As I've said, this is purely subjective.  That's why I did not generalize.  Again, it is entirely dependent on the user's preference.  Of course, I'll still prefer 5D3 even with the added weight more than the 6D and a little bit of loss in IQ (almost non-noticeable) if I got the money.  But with restrained budget, a 6D + lens is more appealing than a 5D3.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 07:24:59 PM by verysimplejason »

Krob78

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2012, 07:16:35 PM »
Below are a pair of 100% crops from shots at ISO 3200, one from the 1D X and one from the 7D.  I wonder which is which?   ::)

I could guess because I know crappy 18mp iso performance :-p ... but as written above, downsize that to forum web size (like 800px wide) and ask again... that's why I say iso performance has to be considered in relation to final output size, though I admit I'm a pixel peeper and have a hard time convincing myself.

Ok...how about now, with the original full images downsized?  I know that I can certainly tell them apart, even at 800x533.
Thank you!  8)
Ken

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2012, 07:16:35 PM »

Area256

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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2012, 07:34:30 PM »

3. Thinking of moving objects(my daughter), I set my camera to AI SERVO, turned off IS and snapped away.  How would the focus on the 6D compare to this type of situation?  I would hope it would be better?  BTW, this was manually pressing the shutter button, not using burst.

5. Is using LR to clean up noise an acceptable practice?  Does anybody really care if they like the picture?  Most people that look at my photos(all but one really) don't even notice things like bad shadows, noise, sharpness, etc..

7.  Again, the sharpness in my images are also improved in LR.  And again, I ask, is it acceptable practice to use PP for things like this? 

8.  Without LR, I wouldn't be able to get the images I want.  Sad but true.  LR has allowed me to achieve the pictures I want.

9.  I noticed someone mention the 6D will easily beat out the 7D in low light.  Thinking about that, I like to take pictures without flash whenever I can.  I like the natural lighting better.  I think the 6D is much better for this scenario.


3. Likely worse.  The 7D has more points and more cross type points with better spread.  However, the 6D can be "tuned" for different types of action like the 5D3, this make make it a little better in some cases.  I have yet to see a real world test between the two for tacking - mostly because that's hard to measure.  However the 7D is a sports camera, the 6D is a landscape/portrait camera, so it's safe to bet the 7D will outperform in tracking.

5. 7. 8. In my opinion it is absolutely acceptable to process things like noise, sharpness, colour, exposure, local adjustments, ect. in LR - and you shouldn't feel "bad" about needing to do it.  What matters is the final product.  Think about it this way: when we had film you would chose your type of film to get different looks, use colour filters to change the colour balance, doge and burn to lighten up or darken parts of the image.  There were even ways to change saturation, crop, do HDR, and much more.  All the best photographers of the time did that.  Ansel Adams did that.  So don't feel like you can't use a bit of LR. 

Another way to look at it: The jpeg engine applies contrast, sharpness, NR, tone curves, etc to your image. Why not take control of that process in LR?  If you don't like the jpegs, that's not necessarily because you are bad, just that the jpeg engine don't produce look you want.

This doesn't mean take crappy pictures and try to save them LR, you should always strive to get the best exposures and lighting you can. However to argue that you shouldn't touch them after that is silly, just like it was in the days of film.

9. Yes the 6D will work better in low light, period.  However I would recommend looking at off-camera lighting.  A lot of people who say "I like the natural lighting better.", do so because they have only used the flash on their camera - and on-axis hard light almost always looks awful.  However, put a flash in an umbrella off to the side, and you'll get great results. 

---

The bottom line for you I think is this: The 6D will give you better IQ in low light and good light. However it may not track as well as the 7D.  The 5D3 will do both very well, but will cost a lot more, and leave you without as much money for lenses.  That's a really hard choice to make.  I don't shoot enough action to make the 5D3 worth it for me, so I got the 6D and will get myself the 135mm f/2L (a sweet lens) with the extra money.

One way to decide is just to play with a 6D in a store.  Bring someone to run around, and try taking pictures of them, if it does a good enough job, get it.  If not, well you're stuck with the 7D or 5D3.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2012, 07:39:39 PM by Area256 »
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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2012, 07:56:20 PM »

3. Thinking of moving objects(my daughter), I set my camera to AI SERVO, turned off IS and snapped away.  How would the focus on the 6D compare to this type of situation?  I would hope it would be better?  BTW, this was manually pressing the shutter button, not using burst.

5. Is using LR to clean up noise an acceptable practice?  Does anybody really care if they like the picture?  Most people that look at my photos(all but one really) don't even notice things like bad shadows, noise, sharpness, etc..

7.  Again, the sharpness in my images are also improved in LR.  And again, I ask, is it acceptable practice to use PP for things like this? 

8.  Without LR, I wouldn't be able to get the images I want.  Sad but true.  LR has allowed me to achieve the pictures I want.

9.  I noticed someone mention the 6D will easily beat out the 7D in low light.  Thinking about that, I like to take pictures without flash whenever I can.  I like the natural lighting better.  I think the 6D is much better for this scenario.


3. Likely worse.  The 7D has more points and more cross type points with better spread.  However, the 6D can be "tuned" for different types of action like the 5D3, this make make it a little better in some cases.  I have yet to see a real world test between the two for tacking - mostly because that's hard to measure.  However the 7D is a sports camera, the 6D is a landscape/portrait camera, so it's safe to bet the 7D will outperform in tracking.

5. 7. 8. In my opinion it is absolutely acceptable to process things like noise, sharpness, colour, exposure, local adjustments, ect. in LR - and you shouldn't feel "bad" about needing to do it.  What matters is the final product.  Think about it this way: when we had film you would chose your type of film to get different looks, use colour filters to change the colour balance, doge and burn to lighten up or darken parts of the image.  There were even ways to change saturation, crop, do HDR, and much more.  All the best photographers of the time did that.  Ansel Adams did that.  So don't feel like you can't use a bit of LR. 

Another way to look at it: The jpeg engine applies contrast, sharpness, NR, tone curves, etc to your image. Why not take control of that process in LR?  If you don't like the jpegs, that's not necessarily because you are bad, just that the jpeg engine don't produce look you want.

This doesn't mean take crappy pictures and try to save them LR, you should always strive to get the best exposures and lighting you can. However to argue that you shouldn't touch them after that is silly, just like it was in the days of film.

9. Yes the 6D will work better in low light, period.  However I would recommend looking at off-camera lighting.  A lot of people who say "I like the natural lighting better.", do so because they have only used the flash on their camera - and on-axis hard light almost always looks awful.  However, put a flash in an umbrella off to the side, and you'll get great results. 

---

The bottom line for you I think is this: The 6D will give you better IQ in low light and good light. However it may not track as well as the 7D.  The 5D3 will do both very well, but will cost a lot more, and leave you without as much money for lenses.  That's a really hard choice to make.  I don't shoot enough action to make the 5D3 worth it for me, so I got the 6D and will get myself the 135mm f/2L (a sweet lens) with the extra money.

One way to decide is just to play with a 6D in a store.  Bring someone to run around, and try taking pictures of them, if it does a good enough job, get it.  If not, well you're stuck with the 7D or 5D3.

As I mentioned in my 1st post, the outer AF points on 6D are almost worthless in AI servo and tracking subject in running. On top of that, the frame rate is on slower side, that make it even more diffecult to shoot in AI servo.

How do you capture kid running around the house when your flash is mount on ext. umbrella soft box?

agree on......... "the 6D is a landscape/portrait camera"
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Re: Anybody upgrade from a 7D to 6D? What are your thoughts?
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2012, 07:56:20 PM »