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Author Topic: Are you really serious about 6D?  (Read 37913 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2012, 11:47:33 AM »
Some might consider the 6D to be an entry-level FF camera but it's not an entry-level camera overall.
As you said, when upgrading to the 6D, one would expect upgrades across the board, not just the sensor.

I think that Canon considers the 6D to be an entry level FF camera, and the target 'upgrader' market are 60D and Rebel/xxxD users. 
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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #45 on: December 13, 2012, 11:47:33 AM »

eyeland

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #46 on: December 13, 2012, 11:49:44 AM »
What happens if you want some nice primes like a 50mm 1.2? taking full advantage of that IQ? focusing with the single point and recomposing at this fine DOF will return poor focus and as the other 10 are pretty much useless.... makes the IQ worthless, unless you plan on manual focusing most of the time. How often is your subject bang in the centre?

Coming from someone who sent a 6D back and bought a 5D3 instead, I found the AF on the 6D to be decent. The center point is very good, the outer points quite usable in decent light. I tested the outers quite a bit before I sent it back due to IQ issues. Apparently mine was a dud because I'm net seeing similar IQ issues in other 6D shots. But the AF was fine...even in servo...big step forward from 5D2 imo. Sure it looks like poo on paper, but in practice the AF worked pretty good imo.
I am very interested in hearing more about peoples real world experiences with the AF system on 6D.
I used to develop b/w film from my nikon F50 myself and I was very happy with my 350D for years.
I lost my 60D due to unfortunate circumstances, and now, as I am facing the option of actually getting paid for  my work, I need much more than I get from the Olympus e520 (got it for free JUST as my 60D was lost - karma is wierd:) (I am sorry about the long rant but what can you do, it's my internet as well ;))

I was very happy with the 60D in general, but using it alot with  50 1.4, I realized a few things I need for my work which consists of video as well as stills (events, concerts, artistic music videos, timelapse, stopmotion etc.)
(i)   Better high ISO performance (especially for video)
(ii)  Image stabilized zoom lens (for video) (best options seem to be 17-55 on crop, 24-105 on ff)
(iii) Better low light focus (ok if this is only on center point as it is for critical use only)
(iv) Durability (peace of mind really)

For a while I almost ahd myself convinced that a switch back to Nikon would be the thing for me - first with the release of the D800 and then again with the D600... until I held them in my hand and realized how much I like having Magic Lantern for video use (and alot of other minor differences) I am sure that for some people Nikon is the best but alas, I REALLY prefer almost every aspect of the Canons that I have tried. I am not a canon fanboy and I was really dissapointed by this as I have been looking for somethign cheaper than 5Dmk3 that still fulfills my needs but I digress.. now back to the specs :)

To get better high ISO performance (i), I am assuming that the 6D would be a huge upgrade over the 60D (and 7D), and on par with the 5Dmk3? (I would love the improoved video on the mk3 like clean HDMI, but I have to start at a lower price point). Also, I am wondering about moire and jello on the 6D vs 60D;5D2;5D3.

For IS (ii), it would seem that the AF-S 17-55 is really nice, but once one enters that price level, it surely would be nice with the durability and safer re-sale value of an "L" (not to mention bragging rights;)
The only Zoomrange with IS that suits me atm in L-glass seems to entail F4 which again points to FF for DoF and light gathering (F4 on crop is too big of a limitation for me)

The first 2 points easily points to canons FF line-up, and for me, the choice would have been alot more simple if I didn't have the nagging fear, that the 6D would be a downgrade in terms of AF (on some areas)
The Lowlight AF on the center (iii) sounds VERY nice as well as the tracking experience mentioned above, but I am still to find any solid information regarding general AF performance of non-center points as well as AF performance in general.
Come to think of it, I should have saved my time on this rant and started out by asking if anyone can point me towards an indepth review/user experience of the 6D?
Surely, there must be something?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:05:52 PM by eyeland »
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dpollitt

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #47 on: December 13, 2012, 11:59:33 AM »
Lots of speculation from people here who don't own the camera, have not used it, and think they have it all figured out. I've owned it for a bit over a week now. Not a huge amount of experience on it, but a week and a half more then most people here it sounds like.

I am very happy with the 6D. I come from a Canon 40D which I was also very happy with. I greatly enjoy the high ISO performance, additional creative DoF options, larger viewfinder, higher resolution screen, iOS app, GPS, video capabilities, and even the fantastic 24-105mm kit lens. I wasn't crying before about the 9 cross type AF points on my 40D, and moving to a single cross type with 11 total points on the 6D hasn't caused me any issues. I don't shoot birds in flight. I shoot landscape, travel, family indoor, portraits, etc. I'm not making money off of my equipment, I am making memories and capturing my life.

I am not coming from a 5D mkII, 1D X, etc. I also am not coming from a crippled Rebel T123xyz, but rather what I consider to be the precursor to the 7D line(40D and prior). I do think that this original post is simply trolling, but I also wanted to at least provide my opinion that the 6D is not a "joke" of a camera. It is very competent and especially for the asking price it is capable of producing great images in many conditions. I personally do not need the level of AF provided in the 5D MkIII, I also do not need dual memory card slots. If I was shooting weddings professionally, it would be an easy decision. This camera is not aimed at the professional that is using the camera every day to make a living. I could have bought a 5D MkIII, I have the money but simply do not need the additional features. I am very happy with the upgrade path from a 40D to a 6D, it offers me much more flexible ISO performance, among other key items which I find very useful.

Too many people are quick to think that integrated GPS and Wi-Fi are "fluff" features or gimmicks. They simply are not. For landscape photography having integrated GPS is a fantastic and welcomed feature. Wi-Fi and the available app for smartphones really opens up the possibilities of remote shooting, allowing comfortable macro work without an articulating screen, family photos without the need for an additional remote accessory, and easy access to photos when on the go. I personally enjoy sharing my photos while traveling with family and not having to carry around an additional dongle for my tablet to download images is a great benefit.

So now you have some thoughts from someone who actually owns this camera, and is in what I would consider one of the many target markets for this unit. If you want to troll some more, I would suggest either buying the 5D MkIII, or going to a Nikon forum to find some willing shoulders to cry on.
Canon 6D, Canon 40D, 17-40mm L, 24-105mm L, 40mm 2.8, 50mm 1.4, 135mm L, 1.4x TC, Canon Canonet QL 17

neuroanatomist

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #48 on: December 13, 2012, 12:06:56 PM »
So now you have some thoughts from someone who actually owns this camera

And why would that matter?  (to a troll, that is  ::) )

Thanks for an informed opinion!
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Beautor

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #49 on: December 13, 2012, 12:28:58 PM »
So now you have some thoughts from someone who actually owns this camera

And why would that matter?  (to a troll, that is  ::) )

Thanks for an informed opinion!

+1 on thanks for an informed opinion. My wife and I currently use a 60D and a 40D, and for us the 6D seems to be the most reasonable upgrade path. I have not used it yet (going to the camera shop today!) but as casual photographers the 6D seems a much more reasonable option than the 5Diii. If I had a wallet full of big bills I most definitely would go with a 5Diii, but since I don't the 6D looks like a great upgrade for the landscape and portrait type photography we do. The slightly smaller size is also appealing to my wife, who is 5'2" and has very small hands.
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tomscott

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #50 on: December 13, 2012, 12:36:04 PM »
My upgrade path was 350D - 40D - 7D - 5D MKIII

Now I was happy with the 9 point AF 5-6 years ago I managed to really get it working well for me, but I hit its limitation really quite quickly, but then I got the 7D and at first was blown away by the amount of points and to start with it was a challenge because it was so different. Then I really got used to it! I still have my 40D and going back to that is really painful in comparison. Now I bought the 5D MKIII after nearly a year of umming and arring and waiting for a good price point it is even better the level of precision and general functionality of the AF its brilliant.

I suppose what I am saying is that Canon has moved on in AF but not implementing it as much as it could. This is an entry FF camera but for someone upgrading from an XXD or an XXXD between £500-800 to £1600 I would expect a better system. Twice the price for better IQ? The rest of the camera has to follow suit, not to the point of the pro cameras somewhere in-between.

Once you use the better systems it really does feel like a massive backward step with the others. I have used a 6D and found it quite snappy, but its the points there spread out and there arent many... so makes composition more difficult.

I dont think the 6D is a bad camera by any margin... It just think it could and should have been better, with a better AF it would have had awesome reviews and I think more people would be willing to suck up the extra £1000 for it.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:38:09 PM by tomscott »
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Dylan777

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2012, 12:41:47 PM »
So now you have some thoughts from someone who actually owns this camera

And why would that matter?  (to a troll, that is  ::) )

Thanks for an informed opinion!

+1 on thanks for an informed opinion. My wife and I currently use a 60D and a 40D, and for us the 6D seems to be the most reasonable upgrade path. I have not used it yet (going to the camera shop today!) but as casual photographers the 6D seems a much more reasonable option than the 5Diii. If I had a wallet full of big bills I most definitely would go with a 5Diii, but since I don't the 6D looks like a great upgrade for the landscape and portrait type photography we do. The slightly smaller size is also appealing to my wife, who is 5'2" and has very small hands.

It will be a perfect match ;)  IQ is great under low light.

Something to look for at store:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11583.0
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:48:37 PM by Dylan777 »
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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #51 on: December 13, 2012, 12:41:47 PM »

Chosenbydestiny

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #52 on: December 13, 2012, 12:48:02 PM »
I wish I could shut off Nikon's ergonomics, button layout, green cast on the screen, etc etc. Nikon might just be #1 in the world for people with 4 fingers, shoot without the screen, and don't care about losing a shot in a high pressure situation because switching modes and going through menus on a Nikon is horrendous compared to a Canon. No offense to them, of course. By all means, do what you need to do. When you're a pro you do what it takes to get the job done whether your specialty and style of work needs a superior sensor, better af, or a better button layout that helps you get your job done faster. That's all that really matters. A client hires you because you're supposed to know better and deliver to best their standards, not yours. If you really love Nikon that much, it's just plain common sense to get the hell out of this Canon forum.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 12:59:30 PM by Chosenbydestiny »
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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #53 on: December 13, 2012, 01:31:50 PM »
I personally do not understand all the hate against the 6D. I was skeptical of it when it was first announced, I am not a big fan of the set up of the 60D. We have the 6D in the store I work at, and it functions great. Sample images  look very very good, and while it is slower than the 5D III (duh) the camera itself is plenty fast enough. The build feels great, and while the sacrifice of the joystick is annoying, the function is still present in the slightly less ergonomic set button location. In the joysticks place are several buttons that used to be on the left side, I am ok with that. It is a very good camera for a decent price.

skitron

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #54 on: December 13, 2012, 02:14:17 PM »
To get better high ISO performance (i), I am assuming that the 6D would be a huge upgrade over the 60D (and 7D), and on par with the 5Dmk3? (I would love the improoved video on the mk3 like clean HDMI, but I have to start at a lower price point). Also, I am wondering about moire and jello on the 6D vs 60D;5D2;5D3.

ISO on 6D is second only to 1DX and 5D3 right behind 6D. And again, the AF on 6D is a big step forward from 5D2 (I had one for a year) imo and sorry to the 6D AF nay-sayers, I'd take the 6D system over the 50D system (had a 50D two years) any day. The 6D center point smokes, the outers are quite a bit better then 5D2 and the overall system much faster than either 5D2 or 50D. Accuracy is noticiably improved over 50D for both inner and outer imo. And 6D AI Servo kept up with my kid on a scooter no problem, something the 5D2 and 50D couldn't do.

The biggest downside to the outer points (other than less sensitive to light) is that they are not cross type. In practice I found them to work well as long as the subject had some detail to it. It struggled with focusing on a sheetrock wall with the outers, but fabrics were no problem at all. Reasonably fast in adequate light and pretty accurate imo.

Video is virtually identical to 5D2 except a tiny bit *more* moire. But unless you're planning on doing video that will get peer reviewed from a technical perspective it's fine imo, and you'll get virtually the same as 5D2 except ISO is improved and 6D will do all i-frame, and despite its known problems, is pretty darn good if all your doing is preserving your own memories. Jello is same on all Canon DSLRs for all practical purposes.

JMO, YMMV, only tested one copy, yadda, yadda...

My "path" is 50D (sold) to 5D2 (sold) to 6D (returned) to 5D3
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 02:49:24 PM by skitron »
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zim

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #55 on: December 13, 2012, 02:30:16 PM »
Lots of speculation from people here who don't own the camera, have not used it, and think they have it all figured out. I've owned it for a bit over a week now. Not a huge amount of experience on it, but a week and a half more then most people here it sounds like.

I am very happy with the 6D. I come from a Canon 40D which I was also very happy with. I greatly enjoy the high ISO performance, additional creative DoF options, larger viewfinder, higher resolution screen, iOS app, GPS, video capabilities, and even the fantastic 24-105mm kit lens. I wasn't crying before about the 9 cross type AF points on my 40D, and moving to a single cross type with 11 total points on the 6D hasn't caused me any issues. I don't shoot birds in flight. I shoot landscape, travel, family indoor, portraits, etc. I'm not making money off of my equipment, I am making memories and capturing my life.

I am not coming from a 5D mkII, 1D X, etc. I also am not coming from a crippled Rebel T123xyz, but rather what I consider to be the precursor to the 7D line(40D and prior). I do think that this original post is simply trolling, but I also wanted to at least provide my opinion that the 6D is not a "joke" of a camera. It is very competent and especially for the asking price it is capable of producing great images in many conditions. I personally do not need the level of AF provided in the 5D MkIII, I also do not need dual memory card slots. If I was shooting weddings professionally, it would be an easy decision. This camera is not aimed at the professional that is using the camera every day to make a living. I could have bought a 5D MkIII, I have the money but simply do not need the additional features. I am very happy with the upgrade path from a 40D to a 6D, it offers me much more flexible ISO performance, among other key items which I find very useful.

Too many people are quick to think that integrated GPS and Wi-Fi are "fluff" features or gimmicks. They simply are not. For landscape photography having integrated GPS is a fantastic and welcomed feature. Wi-Fi and the available app for smartphones really opens up the possibilities of remote shooting, allowing comfortable macro work without an articulating screen, family photos without the need for an additional remote accessory, and easy access to photos when on the go. I personally enjoy sharing my photos while traveling with family and not having to carry around an additional dongle for my tablet to download images is a great benefit.

So now you have some thoughts from someone who actually owns this camera, and is in what I would consider one of the many target markets for this unit. If you want to troll some more, I would suggest either buying the 5D MkIII, or going to a Nikon forum to find some willing shoulders to cry on.


Wouldn't have said 'informed' would have said informed
+1 well said sir


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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #56 on: December 13, 2012, 02:50:30 PM »
6D is targeted to people with older rebel models or lower. If you just bought a 650D or 600D i dont think ur suddenly gonna buy a 6D. I think people who still use like...450D and were already aware of the "FF magic" are now finally going to get a camera they like. People with 7D are likely informed advanced users anyway and probably lurking to get a 5D long time already. 

I assume most people who come to these forums are quite educated and experienced about photography so i dont understand all this 6D bashing since the camera is not intended for such users.  6D is for beginners, people who probably never had an L lens before and perhaps never used an external flash with triggers. People who "know what they want" are going for 5D or higher anyway...EXCEPT they cant afford it. Thats also a large group of ppl targeted :P
If i gotta save my ass off to buy the 6D im also likely more appreciating my purchase and just feeling lucky i could go FF at all. At least i would be like that. And the 6D is not bad anyway. It performs worse than the 5Dmk3, yes but so does the 5Dmk3 performe worse than the 1DX same way. It doesnt make 5dmk3 a bad camera.

I wish I could shut off Nikon's ergonomics, button layout, green cast on the screen, etc etc. Nikon might just be #1 in the world for people with 4 fingers, shoot without the screen, and don't care about losing a shot in a high pressure situation because switching modes and going through menus on a Nikon is horrendous compared to a Canon

Lol i always have heard people telling nikon ergonomics and menu functionality is waaay better.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2012, 02:54:01 PM by sandymandy »

sdsr

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2012, 03:19:08 PM »

The 6D could have been so much better and appealed to a much larger audience without the cost being too much more and without compromising on the 5D, with a real hybrid between a XXXD, XXD & 7D with a full frame sensor

[....]

I didnt expect the 6D to have poor IQ, and it has proven itself, it appears to be fantastic. But if you are an amateur used to the 9 point system the 11 point isnt a massive upgrade apart from one point, even the 650Ds are all cross point, but it will feel similar... not sure i like the idea of that price and the camera AF feeling similar. But I wouldn't buy a 2k camera that really doesn't improve much apart from IQ it needs to be across the board, a camera consists of more than just a good sensor. IQ means nothing if only one point is worth using.


If the 6D were "so much better" than it really is, and still significantly cheaper than the 5DIII, why would anyone buy the 5DIII? (Or, put differently, why would Canon have released the 6D at all?)   

As for the comment on IQ, I wouldn't buy another camera unless it did improve IQ; and if the improvement were significant enough, I would buy it for that reason alone.  (And as for focus points, I'm one of those odd people who have little interest in anything other than the central focus point, so I don't care how many others there are, but those who have actually used the 6D report that the others work just fine.)   

Low light/high ISO performance matters a good deal to me, so as far as I'm concerned the 6D would be a move up from my 5DII if it's noticeably better in that regard (I'm currently renting a 5DIII to make such a comparison).  Whether the 6D is a move up, down, or sideways depends on what you have, what you want and how it actually performs in practice; we're all different....   And if the Nikon equivalents really are better in anyone's experience, well, buy them.  As I recently found out, the cost of moving from one system to another is less than a lot of people seem to think.

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #57 on: December 13, 2012, 03:19:08 PM »

x-vision

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #58 on: December 13, 2012, 03:54:49 PM »
If the 6D were "so much better" than it really is, and still significantly cheaper than the 5DIII, why would anyone buy the 5DIII? (Or, put differently, why would Canon have released the 6D at all?)   

Well, that's something for Canon to figure out, as they are in the business of selling cameras, not me.
But the 6D should have been better. 

I feel that in their efforts to differentiate it from the 5DIII, Canon ended up compromising the 6D.
That's not smart.

Instead, Canon should have put extra efforts in proper differentiation without compromising the 6D.

leolol

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2012, 04:27:24 PM »
@Neuro From where do you have the information that 6ds are flying from the shelfs? I dont think they do, as they arent even out everywhere in the world.

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Re: Are you really serious about 6D?
« Reply #59 on: December 13, 2012, 04:27:24 PM »