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Author Topic: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]  (Read 13895 times)

Flake

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2011, 07:50:13 AM »
today pentax launched a  new evil camera http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=4774

Another player in the market.

As for this type of camera being too expensive maybe a straight point & shoot, which I can't envisage being launched, but the evil type cameras are at least as pricey as the 600D if not more so, and they're selling well despite that.

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2011, 07:50:13 AM »

Bob Howland

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2011, 08:46:34 AM »
Well it's more than just the sensor, the camera has to work, and based on the aweful G12 I've been messing around with I doubt they're on the right path.

The G12 is such an absolute piece of junk that I won't buy anything expect the absolute top of the range Canon again. I haven't owned such a useless camera since my very first Fed Zorki lll back in the mid 70's. How Canon created such a piece of junk out out what was an almost acceptable platform amazes me. My weekend with at the Montreal F1 GP was so tragic I just started laughing at all the pictures it missed, 19 out of 20, maybe 39 out of 40. No matter what I did to override its silly nanny habits it would still dwell and pause, missing every single bit of action, it was so stunningly useless that I'm actually amazed they sell any of them at all!

So, even if they put a bigger better chip in a pocketable camera, there is no guarantee that it'll be any use at all based on the disaster that is the G12!
I bought a G10 and sold it 3 months later

I own a G10 and use it a lot.

macfly

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2011, 09:46:21 AM »
That is a cute looking little camera, but one I doubt will sell well at all, the next iPhone & Samsung phones will have an 8mp camera, so I wouldn't be suprised to see that kill a big chunk of the makret for everything under the 4/3 type camera systems.

UncleFester

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2011, 10:25:12 AM »
If they are going to build them to look like rangefinders, why don't they just build rangefinders and cut the cute-retro look nonsense.

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #19 on: June 23, 2011, 12:02:42 PM »
If they are going to build them to look like rangefinders, why don't they just build rangefinders and cut the cute-retro look nonsense.

Rangefinders are for manual focus lenses.  They are very difficult to build to accomodate a range of interchangable lenses.  For a fixed lens, they are ok, but if I put a long lens or a zoom lens on such a camera, a rangefinder is pretty much useless and so would be the camera,

polpaulin

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2011, 12:24:02 PM »
Well it's more than just the sensor, the camera has to work, and based on the aweful G12 I've been messing around with I doubt they're on the right path.

The G12 is such an absolute piece of junk that I won't buy anything expect the absolute top of the range Canon again. I haven't owned such a useless camera since my very first Fed Zorki lll back in the mid 70's. How Canon created such a piece of junk out out what was an almost acceptable platform amazes me. My weekend with at the Montreal F1 GP was so tragic I just started laughing at all the pictures it missed, 19 out of 20, maybe 39 out of 40. No matter what I did to override its silly nanny habits it would still dwell and pause, missing every single bit of action, it was so stunningly useless that I'm actually amazed they sell any of them at all!

So, even if they put a bigger better chip in a pocketable camera, there is no guarantee that it'll be any use at all based on the disaster that is the G12!
I bought a G10 and sold it 3 months later

I own a G10 and use it a lot.
well  my small daughter use a lot her ixus , the quality is nearly the same, it is a very good camera for familly photo

hmmm

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 12:42:58 PM »
Canon T3 APS-C 12.2 MP is now $549.99 at B&H.   Take that sensor, put it in a G- type compact body, give it a compact lens that can be smaller and faster because it does not have to clear the mirror.  Seems doable for MUCH less than the competition.

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2011, 12:42:58 PM »

PaulRivers

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2011, 01:20:09 PM »
Quote
Canon would introduce a larger sensor PowerShot for the fall. It will apparently end the perceived love affair the world has with the Fuji X-100.

I’m not sure. Has Canon ever struck you as a company to get into niche markets in the photographic world?

This sounds like *exactly* the kind of thing Canon would do. It's *exactly* like with the lx3.
1. They don't want to introduce a product that might compete against their dslr line
2. They don't want to take a risk on creating a new type of camera
3. But once someone else does and it's successful, they also don't want to risk someone else establishing themselves as the leader in the market

So, they -
1. Wait for a competitor to introduce a product into the market
2. Watch how successful or profitable it is
3. Then introduce their own product with some aspect that's significantly better to compete with it

That's what they did with the lx3. It wouldn't be surprising to see them do exactly the same thing with the xz-1, and just introduce the same kind of camera only with a cost less than $1200.

I think a g12-sized camera with a fixed f2.0 lens, for low light shots, is a lot *less* niche than m43rds - everyone wants a camera that can take indoor lighting photos without a flash, and the best compacts are only on the edge of being able to do it, and then they still have noticeable noise. Canon doesn't want to compete against their own dslr's, but once someone else is doing it's not "is this going to slow down dslr sales" as much as it is "is someone else going to establish themselves as the premium manufacturer in this market and we'll lose out?".

P.S. I think the x100 is ugly as hell.
P.P.S. Neither the NEX or m43rds have "sold so well". The m43rds crowd seems to feel that if they repeat wishful thinking enough it will magically come true. One can just look at amazon's list of top selling cameras (I'm in the US so I'm looking at the US stuff) -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers/photo

#1 is a cheap Canon compact. #2 is a flip hd video camera. #3 is a Canon t3i. #4 is a Canon sx210. #5 is the Canon s95. #6 is a Canon 300hs (actually, Canon usually has several of the top spots but not usually all of them - they probably have some promo going). I've periodically checked it for the last 6 months or so, and as long as the s95 is actually available at or below retail price it's always in the top 20. There's always also a few Canon dslr's in that list as well, Canon or Nikon.

The lx5 is all the way up to #25. Several Sony compacts in the list. The x100 is #44, despite being "temporarily out of stock". #72 is a "Fujifilm INSTAX 210 Instant Photo Camera Kit with 5 Twin Pack of INSTAX Film" - yes, with film! lol...

But in the entire top 100 list, I can't even *find* the Sony NEX or a m43rds camera. *That's* how well they're selling.

I have occasionally seen them make their way into the top 100 - but never into the top 20. The x100 is a lot less "niche" than m43rds or a nex.

Caps18

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2011, 05:43:56 PM »
I am looking for a small p&s that has a fixed 24mm pancake lens or built-in, but will accept an adapter to allow EF zoom lenses, Image Stabilization, and autofocus to work.

That way, I can bring the 24mm or 35mm p&s with me on bike rides and evenings out.  Yet, I can still carry a few good lenses when I travel to get better shots and don't want to carry around the 5D m2 (or when venues won't let me bring in my 'professional' camera...  >:( )

It would have a few benefits over the iPhone, but the iPhone would take acceptable pictures in a lot of situations as well...  but it wouldn't have the zoom (420mm-840mm).
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adamdoesmovies

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2011, 06:51:30 PM »
today pentax launched a  new evil camera http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/default.asp?newsID=4774

Another player in the market.

As for this type of camera being too expensive maybe a straight point & shoot, which I can't envisage being launched, but the evil type cameras are at least as pricey as the 600D if not more so, and they're selling well despite that.


I think pretty much everyone agrees that this camera wouldn't suck, and would probably succeed if it didn't have a webcam-sized (exaggerating but only a little!) sensor!

Hillsilly

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2011, 12:55:22 AM »
The Amazon list linked to by PaulRivers makes interesting reading, but I'm not sure how relevent it its.  The list shows that Canon P&S cameras are top sellers and Canon DSLRs are also top sellers.  And with the T3i at number 5, it also shows that a very high number of people are happy to pay a little bit more for a better all round camera. 

But, what it doesn't show is how many people (if given the choice) would buy a more compact, mirrorless version of the T3i with EF (and FD!) compatability and a range of smaller lenses vs the T3i itself.

My gut feeling is that it would be quite a high percentage.  After all, the sheer number of P & S styled bodies in the top 100 suggests that this is a preferred camera shape for a lot of people.

The lack of NEX and m4/3 bodies in the top 100 probably says more about people not wanting to buy into those systems.  To buy into m4/3 is probably a conscious decision people take after weighing up a lot of factors.  I don't think its the sort of thing that consumers would do on the spur of the moment.

But I think a Canon option is an entirely different proposition.  You have the brand recognition, you have the vast number of people already owning and happy with Canon cameras, you have upgrade options, you have access to a vast range of lenses.  Why wouldn't you buy one?  And if Canon can price them similar to the competitors ($400 - $600), you'd be silly not to buy one.

I'm not advocating a radically different camera, just a thinner, restyled T3i with an electronic viewfinder. 

You'd also need a new lens mount and a 15mm, 30mm and 60mm pancake lens (assuming 1.6x crop).  Maybe keep the 18-55 EFS with adapter as the kit lens.   
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bycostello

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2011, 03:42:38 AM »
4/3 will replace the slr market... you just don't need a mirror with modern elctronics...  so why do i need to carry a brick with me... weddings, ok i will...  but for my personal stuff no...  the gf3 first camera to come out with a decent shutter lag, or rather lack of it....  if canon don't announce soon will be going for one of them....

Rocky

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2011, 02:08:55 PM »
Now, if we're talking about the 5D2 FF sensor inside a Canon P or 7 body with Leica M-mount...  ;D

That will be my dream camera. I have a few Lieca lenses waiting for it. The M9 is too expensive for me due to shift of priority.

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #27 on: June 27, 2011, 02:08:55 PM »

Rocky

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2011, 05:42:03 PM »
Well it's more than just the sensor, the camera has to work, and based on the aweful G12 I've been messing around with I doubt they're on the right path.

The G12 is such an absolute piece of junk that I won't buy anything expect the absolute top of the range Canon again. I haven't owned such a useless camera since my very first Fed Zorki lll back in the mid 70's. How Canon created such a piece of junk out out what was an almost acceptable platform amazes me. My weekend with at the Montreal F1 GP was so tragic I just started laughing at all the pictures it missed, 19 out of 20, maybe 39 out of 40. No matter what I did to override its silly nanny habits it would still dwell and pause, missing every single bit of action, it was so stunningly useless that I'm actually amazed they sell any of them at all!

So, even if they put a bigger better chip in a pocketable camera, there is no guarantee that it'll be any use at all based on the disaster that is the G12!
Sorry to hear that. I hate to tell you that the G12 or any point and shoot is not suitable for action or sport photography. To shoot Formular One Grand Prix, You definitely need a Good DSLR with fast auto focus.

bycostello

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2011, 03:22:37 AM »
Well it's more than just the sensor, the camera has to work, and based on the aweful G12 I've been messing around with I doubt they're on the right path.

The G12 is such an absolute piece of junk that I won't buy anything expect the absolute top of the range Canon again. I haven't owned such a useless camera since my very first Fed Zorki lll back in the mid 70's. How Canon created such a piece of junk out out what was an almost acceptable platform amazes me. My weekend with at the Montreal F1 GP was so tragic I just started laughing at all the pictures it missed, 19 out of 20, maybe 39 out of 40. No matter what I did to override its silly nanny habits it would still dwell and pause, missing every single bit of action, it was so stunningly useless that I'm actually amazed they sell any of them at all!

So, even if they put a bigger better chip in a pocketable camera, there is no guarantee that it'll be any use at all based on the disaster that is the G12!
Sorry to hear that. I hate to tell you that the G12 or any point and shoot is not suitable for action or sport photography. To shoot Formular One Grand Prix, You definitely need a Good DSLR with fast auto focus.


yeah that was user error i'm affraid, you got to know what your camera can do...  no compact (well except the GF3) has a fast shutter lag that can freeze sports..  you would need to use manual focus to stand a chance to capture such fast sports..  or as the other guy said, use an SLR...

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Re: Large Sensor PowerShot? [CR1]
« Reply #29 on: June 28, 2011, 03:22:37 AM »