Patent: A New Canon EF 50 f/1.2 & Suggestion of a Full Frame Mirrorless?

[preppyak]

Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

Yeah, thats really the piece that makes this technology pretty far off. To actually release a full-frame mirrorless camera with all the lens options a pro would want (fast zooms, primes, tilt-shifts, super teles, etc), it'd take them years to fill out the line. Even if they release the body in the next year, it's probably 3-4yrs down the line until its a viable option as a system. That also assumes 3rd party manufacturers get behind it, otherwise it's probably 5-6yrs

[RS2021]

About time!

[Stone]

Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

Yeah, thats really the piece that makes this technology pretty far off. To actually release a full-frame mirrorless camera with all the lens options a pro would want (fast zooms, primes, tilt-shifts, super teles, etc), it'd take them years to fill out the line. Even if they release the body in the next year, it's probably 3-4yrs down the line until its a viable option as a system. That also assumes 3rd party manufacturers get behind it, otherwise it's probably 5-6yrs

I somewhat agree, but you also have to look at the players.  Once potential sales dictates that one of the big players (not a niche player like Leica) push the platform forward, lenses will come fairly rapidly.  If Canon or Nikon jumps on the FF mirrorless bandwagon, the 3rd party lens makers won't be far behind.  Lenses are slow going in the mirrorless market right now because DSLR and DSLR lens sales are still what keeps the lights on.

There's currently no need to aggressively produce a ton of mirrorless lenses.  That would change quickly of one of those companies managed to produce a high demand FF mirrorless.  I agree it could be 5-6 years before they were ubiquitous but alot sooner for a fairly complete kit with the exception of superteles which I think will always remain a niche.

[dr croubie]

Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

Yeah, thats really the piece that makes this technology pretty far off. To actually release a full-frame mirrorless camera with all the lens options a pro would want (fast zooms, primes, tilt-shifts, super teles, etc), it'd take them years to fill out the line. Even if they release the body in the next year, it's probably 3-4yrs down the line until its a viable option as a system. That also assumes 3rd party manufacturers get behind it, otherwise it's probably 5-6yrs

Or for a comparison: Look at EF-s.
When digital APS-C first started coming out around the D30/10D time, there was no such thing as EF-s. You needed to buy a ridiculously expensive (compared to an EF-s kit lens nowadays at least) 16-35L or 17-40L, even a 20-35mm wasn't particularly wide on crop.
The first EF-s kit lenses, I'm looking at you, EF-s 18-55 non-IS mk1, weren't worth the box they shipped them in.

Flash forward what, 5-10 years, and now look. EF-s 15-85 IS is a great travel zoom, 17-55 f/2.8 IS is a great indoor zoom, EF-s 10-22, Tokina 11-16, Sigma 8-16 all provide great über-wide options in their niches. Even the latest 18-55 IS kit lens is worth the money (granted, it's not much money).

How long did that take? First EF-s body was 300D, August 2003.
EF-s 10-22 was probably the most pressing *need* of the new system, that was 2004 sometime.
EF-s 17-55/2.8 as the 'fast zoom' came out in 2006.
EF-s 15-85 as the '24mm equiv. wide zoom' came out in 2009 with the 7D.

So those three together make up the best 3 of the crop line lenses thus far, and it only took them what, 6 years to get those three together? SigRonKina have certainly helped prod things along by providing competition, especially in the über-wide segment.


Still, if we see a FF Mirrorless from canon, my bet is that the first will be in a DSLR body without a mirror (i've got a post elsewhere here that explains why FF and Short Back Focus = bad for digital). But if/when they work out the kinks and give us a 20-35mm Flange-mount FF Mirrorless, they'll be relying on people using their existing EF lenses on adapter for a few more years yet while they gradually fill out the line-up with dedicated (read: smaller, not necessarily cheaper) short-mount lenses.

[Area256]

Skeptical, but that would be a dream come true for a lot of people - myself included.

They wouldn't need to have a lot of lenses either.  A fast 35mm and 50mm would make most people happy to start.  No point in making zooms or super teles, or tilt-shifts, etc, they are all so big when made for FF (even if designed for mirror-less) they defeat the advantage of mirror-less.  Just use them adapted if you must.

Then they could add a semi-fast 24mm, 85mm, 100mm, and maybe a 16mm or 20mm, and they'd be set for lenses.

Ideally I'd have a nice DSLR to use with large lenses when needed, and carry a mirror-less FF with a 35mm or 50mm at all other times.  I don't think it would hurt the high-end DSRL market (can you see a pro with a 70-200mm f/2.8 on a small body?).  And it'll be priced so high that it wound't hurt the rebel market either.

Overall I see FF mirror-less as a niche market at best, mostly as a second camera for pros, and people with money (but not Leica money) who want the best quality possible without the size of DSLR.

Having said that, I'm still skeptical...  And Sony is likely to get to market first.   Also Canon's AF would need to be improved a lot before it would be taken seriously.

[Viggo]

There's a new patent for upgrading the 50 L, and all people talk about are mirrorless??!!

Perhaps the world IS coming to an end....

[Nishi Drew]

There's a new patent for upgrading the 50 L, and all people talk about are mirrorless??!!

Perhaps the world IS coming to an end....

Haha, "...the world IS coming..." as in Image Stabilization I get it, because Canon has decided on sticking IS in everything and using that as an excuse to somehow push the price to level insane, and most aren't even L !!

Ok but seriously, I too am more interested in the possibility of a new 50L, it'll have to be one incredible upgrade to the current one though, even with better sharpness and no focus shift, if it'll be more expensive then what, full sealing, 'better' bokeh, faster focusing? It still won't beat the Sigma for it's price and near identical image it produces... but that's not the point, sometimes that red ring makes all the difference

[Ellen Schmidtee]

Also, that means another line of FF mirrorless lenses...*shiver*

Yeah, thats really the piece that makes this technology pretty far off. To actually release a full-frame mirrorless camera with all the lens options a pro would want (fast zooms, primes, tilt-shifts, super teles, etc), it'd take them years to fill out the line. Even if they release the body in the next year, it's probably 3-4yrs down the line until its a viable option as a system. That also assumes 3rd party manufacturers get behind it, otherwise it's probably 5-6yrs

The whole point with a mirrorless is it's small size, which makes big lenses - such as super teles - pointless.

So I think the FF mirrorless' line of lenses would be small, say primes from wide up to ~100mm & couple of fast zooms in same focal range.

[EchoLocation]

If Canon, Nikon or Sony make a reasonably priced(under 3000 dollars) FF mirrorless option about the size of a Leica or smaller, I would be all over it, regardless of whether there was a full system ready.
I would be confident that if any of these three companies released such a camera with a new lens mount that future lenses would follow. As long as they had a 24mm, or 35mm, or a zoom in the range of 24-70ish I would buy it without worrying about the overall system.
i believe that A LOT of other people feel this way.
If the RX1 simply had a removable lens, and the lens was the same Zeiss 35mm F2, I would have bought it already, even if it was the only lens available at the moment.

[Stuart]

High speed flash sync AND high frame rates :-)

[SjoerdB]

For reference, you can find the original patent application here: http://nawaphotography.web.fc2.com/etc/JPA_2012247451.pdf and the machine translation at the site of the Japanese patent office (http://www4.ipdl.inpit.go.jp/Tokujitu/tjsogodben.ipdl?N0000=115  search for A 2012-247451).

Assuming a 24x36mm sensor, a lens should produce an image circle with a radius of 21.63mm.
Interestingly, all four examples mention an "image height (像高)" of 21.64 mm.
I guess this number is what indicates that all four examples are for full frame.

Now keep in mind that the patent application was filed 2011-05-25, i.e. more than a year before the launch date of the EOS M. It could well be that the lens calculations were done before the decision to NOT make a full-frame mirrorless was taken.

[bycostello]

Full frame mirrorless? Wow, wow, wow!!! That will simply DESTROY all competition

+1

[ddashti]

Seems like Canon is updating their current 50mm line. Might as well do the f/1.8, too!

[Haydn1971]

Not convinced yet - BF on the Japanese page is listed at 28mm, so it's just as likely to be a standard EF lens too

Given the current thinking, I'm imagining a 50mm f2.0 IS in a similar style to the 24/28/35mm lenses, no more, no less....  Except perhaps a 50mm f2.0 EF-M

As for the 50mm f1.8 - that will carry on regardless with crappy build, great in low light and a very low price.

[RS2021]

Canon's strong suit is their existing lens lineup....The inevitable move to mirrorless (whenever that is, i didn't say next tuesday) will not leave this valuable per existing asset of lenses behind. Even if near term we see M mounts and other varieties, to diversify and saturate the market to gain revenue, longer term, Canon will likely harmonize these platforms around established EF lens lineup.

I don't know what the exact contours or mechanics of such a platform would be, but I think it is highly likely.