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Author Topic: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over  (Read 52377 times)

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2012, 10:03:40 AM »
if i have two equal products today .... i don´t care if one was released earlyer.

Ahhh...so, the products are equal, are they?  :-X

depends on who you ask.

a lot of reviewers, former canon customers and new customers think the D800 is the better camera for them, at a lower price.

...and a lot of former Nikon customers went from a D700 to a 5DIII, too.  So what?

if i have two equal products today .... i don´t care if one was released earlyer.

Ahhh...so, the products are equal, are they?  :-X

overall yes.

one is better for the sports photographer the other for studio, macro and landscape photographer.
but the 5D MK3 is sure not 800 euro more worth then the D800.

I'm glad that's true for you. Why are you still here in Canon land, then?  If Nikon is so much cheaper, you should switch.  Please.

But...as I pointed out in your similarly-themed thread, have you considered the total cost of switching?  For me, the D800 is less than $200 cheaper than the 5DIII.  But say the difference was $1050, the US$ equivalent of your 800 €.  If I was looking for a backup FF body, saving $1K by buying a cheaper D800 that doesn't work with the >$30K of Canon lenses and flashes that I use would be a very expensive way to "save money."
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2012, 10:03:40 AM »

Videoshooter

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2012, 10:05:17 AM »
It's common knowledge that the initial release price is always higher than the eventual market price. It's the price you pay for being an early adopter.

What confuses me is the way people always find something to complain about. 3 months ago everybody was saying "This is ridiculous, please lower the price," now fast forward a few weeks and people are complaining that Canon did exactly what everyone asked - lowered the price!

Products generally drop their price over time. Yes, most cameras will be considerably cheaper a few months after they are released. If you can't wait that long, then it obviously means you are a busy working professional, and the camera will pay for itself in a few weeks anyway, so the extra money is no bid deal.

And you think the Canon depreciation in bad? I know somebody who bought a RED Epic earlier this year, before they dropped the price by nearly $20,000. Is he pissed? No, because he got to use the camera for several months, and the income he has made with the camera in that time makes up for the higher price.

You can't hold others responsible for the purchases you make. If you like the product and are willing to pay a certain price, then that is your decision and yours alone. Nobody is forcing you to buy anything.

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awinphoto

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2012, 10:12:34 AM »
For what it's worth, just this morning I got a Canon survey on my satisfaction with their gear... THESE SURVEYS ARE THE BEST WAY TO GET THROUGH TO THEM...  If your registered with Canon, I would assume you would have gotten these surveys... communicating with them goes farther than griping on canon rumors. 
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2012, 10:13:38 AM »
Is this a humor post that was somehow written poorley?  Otherwise, I cannot imagine anyone bitching about a price reduction.

unfocused

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #64 on: December 21, 2012, 10:22:31 AM »
This is a ridiculous thread.

Canon is "screwing over" its customers because the market value of the 5DIII is less than the price it was released at?

I hardly know where to begin.

What the pricing REALLY reflects is that even Canon cannot dictate to the market. In a competitive market environment, the market sets the price and that is exactly what is happening here. The only official price reduction of the 5DIII is a $200 rebate that reduces the official price to $3,299. Rebates are common and allow companies to adjust their pricing without having to officially acknowledge that their pricing was too high in the first place.

But, look at what has happened with the 5DIII. The market has said that even $3,299 is too much. Canon is powerless to prevent retailers from discounting the product even more. They have tried to impose a "Minimum Advertised Price" but the market is dictating an even lower price, so sellers are skirting the rules to meet the actual market price. And, faced with the facts of the marketplace, Canon knows they can't do much to stop retailers from cutting prices.

Neither the retailers nor Canon WANT to sell the 5DIII at a lower price, but they have no choice. The market has spoken and said the actual price of the camera should be $3,000 or lower.  So, as of today, we have authorized dealers selling it at about $2,975 and unauthorized dealers at $2,799.

In other words, the market is saying that the value of purchasing from an authorized dealer is about $175 over an unauthorized dealer.

Now, look at Nikon. The official price of the D800 is $2,999, while the street price (B&H) is $2,796.

To summarize, the market is saying the actual value of the 5DIII is about $200 more than the actual market value of the D800 and both were originally priced too high.  If you discount the value of an authorized dealership, the D800 and the 5DIII are essentially the same price.

As much fun as it is to blame big bad Canon for all your woes, the reality is that this is just capitalism at work. And, frankly, its working in the consumers favor.
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darkhound

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #65 on: December 21, 2012, 10:24:39 AM »
Also your analogy is incomplete because you don't compare the release dates of the Canon v. Nikon products.  As you know, the drop-off occurs most drastically after the first few months.  Were the Canon products and Nikon products at the exact same stage in their lifecycles?

who cares?
if i have two equal products today .... i don´t care if one was released earlyer.

i care about what i have to pay.

Well that being said, then it would seem to "pay" to care about release dates... Just saying..  ???

Exactly.  If you care what you have to pay, you should pay attention to release dates because they are obviously correlated to price -- the biggest drop in price occurs over the first several months, and then the price gradually stabilizes.

Because of this logarithmic relation, if the Nikon was released several months before the Canon, then your comparison and numbers are nonsensical and do not support your suggestion that Canon's markup for early adopters is more aggressive than Nikon's.

This is like grade 7 logic.  You can't compare the month 1-3 price drop of a BMW to the month 10-13 price drop of a Mercedes, even though both are 3 month periods.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2012, 10:40:51 AM by darkhound »

Harv

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2012, 10:29:29 AM »
Every day is a learning experience for me.  I've always thought that I bought my cameras to use taking photographs.  Now I find out it's all about tracking depreciation.

If some of the posts on this thread were not so entertaining, they would be pitiful.  I suppose I missed the class 'Winning Thru Whining 101'.

For those who feel Nikon would treat them better, they should make the jump.  Just remember, the grass is often seen as greener on the other side of the fence because it is so well fertilized with BS.

Just saying.   ;D

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #66 on: December 21, 2012, 10:29:29 AM »

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #67 on: December 21, 2012, 11:22:27 AM »
I'm glad that's true for you. Why are you still here in Canon land, then?  If Nikon is so much cheaper, you should switch.  Please.

spoken like a true fanboy.  ::)

nobody wrote about switching... i sure don´t.

but if it hurts your fanboy feelings when people dare to say that canon gear is overpriced... i beg your pardon but that´s what many people think.

you obviously donated a great part of your life to canon... and i did not want to make you feel bad with my posting! it was not personal or meant to make other canon users feel bad!

Thanks for that quite offensive post.  'Fanboy' connotes a loss of objectivity, something I assure you I don't suffer from.  I've spent far more money on the make of cars my wife and I drive, because they offered the features we wanted...am I a fanboy of that make, as well? (I guess not, because our needs have changed, and the next vehicle will be a different make).  I must be a house, 401K, and 529 college fund fanboy, too - way more than Canon judging by my spend in those areas.

The D800 is a better landscape camera (as I've stated before) - and if that was my main shooting interest, I'd buy one (would have done so already, in fact, and not come here whining about it beforehand).

You previously stated, "i can get a D800 for 2289 euro from a big and reputed reseller here in germany (from some smaller shops it´s as low as 2150 euro)," and went on to discuss D600 prices, too...if you aren't even considering switching, why do you even care what Nikon bodies costs?  Perhaps as an excuse to whine and complain?  At least that's free, so by all means, carry on...
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #68 on: December 21, 2012, 11:23:59 AM »
Meh, This seems to only be an issue for early adopters. I got both my Mk3s for under 3000$ and one for 2499$. I couldn't feel better about being patient.   8)

Just don't be an early adopter unless absolutely necessary.

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #69 on: December 21, 2012, 11:29:29 AM »
What confuses me is the way people always find something to complain about. 3 months ago everybody was saying "This is ridiculous, please lower the price," now fast forward a few weeks and people are complaining that Canon did exactly what everyone asked - lowered the price!
It's pretty funny — they get nasty complaints even when doing exactly what people want.  "I'm so pissed off ... the price is too high!" followed a few months later by "I'm so pissed off ... the price came down!"

And Canon wins no thanks at all ... zip ... zero ... for lowering the price of the 5D2 to a rock bottom fire sale low.  Remember when we were hoping and praying to see a full frame camera under $2,000?  The 5D2 is now more affordable than ever at $1,600.  It wasn't too long ago that some APS-C cameras cost more than that.  That's a big win for anyone looking to get their first full-frame.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #70 on: December 21, 2012, 11:34:03 AM »
What confuses me is the way people always find something to complain about. 3 months ago everybody was saying "This is ridiculous, please lower the price," now fast forward a few weeks and people are complaining that Canon did exactly what everyone asked - lowered the price!
It's pretty funny — they get nasty complaints even when doing exactly what people want.  "I'm so pissed off ... the price is too high!" followed a few months later by "I'm so pissed off ... the price came down!"

Translation: people are pissed off at their own past buying decisions, but they refuse to take personal responsibility, and blame someone else, instead.
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bdunbar79

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #71 on: December 21, 2012, 11:44:00 AM »
I'm with you.  I could get my 5d Mk III kit $700-800 less today than I paid 5 months go.  That's a lot of money to me that i just threw away.  I feel like I basically gave a charitable contribution to Canon.  That won't happen again as I will no longer be an early adopter of anything they bring to market.

Plain and simple, you knew the cost at the time, and YOU made the decision to purchase the camera.  Everyone knows early adopters pay more.  I was an early adopter and paid more and I'm so glad I did, because I got 6 months worth of shooting in before the price went down, and that's worth more than $700-$800 to me.
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2012, 11:49:28 AM »
All very interesting.  All very redundant.  My home is worth less than what I paid for it due to the nuances of the marketplace and economy.  But, it does not matter.  I am not moving so I am not selling.  I really like my home.  What others may pay does not matter that much unless I have to sell........

I really like my 5Diii.  Unless I post it on CL or FM or EB for sale, it does not matter what the price is for those who want to buy one now............
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #72 on: December 21, 2012, 11:49:28 AM »

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #73 on: December 21, 2012, 11:51:00 AM »
I'm glad that's true for you. Why are you still here in Canon land, then?  If Nikon is so much cheaper, you should switch.  Please.

spoken like a true fanboy.  ::)

nobody wrote about switching... i sure don´t.

but if it hurts your fanboy feelings when people dare to say that canon gear is overpriced... i beg your pardon but that´s what many people think.

you obviously donated a great part of your life to canon... and i did not want to make you feel bad with my posting! it was not personal or meant to make other canon users feel bad!

What's hilarious is that the only people bitching about Canon gear being overpriced are those that continue (and will continue) to purchase Canon gear.  It's people who are not financially responsible that are the complainers.  YOU know the price BEFORE you make the purchase.  Don't like it, don't buy it.  If you buy it then don't complain because later the price came down.  This is not difficult.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2012, 11:51:40 AM »
Oh, and by the way...

Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over

Sure they can.  As long as they keep their shareholders happy, they can screw their customers over, up, down, and sideways. 
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #74 on: December 21, 2012, 11:51:40 AM »