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Author Topic: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over  (Read 49352 times)

ScottyP

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #165 on: January 03, 2013, 04:11:11 PM »
Maybe it actually is time to lock this thread.  The title is over the top negative, and that just brings out over-the-top responses from the True Believers in response.  And every time someone bumps it, it goes back to the front page/top posts all over again.
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #165 on: January 03, 2013, 04:11:11 PM »

Zen

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #166 on: January 03, 2013, 04:13:09 PM »
Here's an idea . . . Don't buy the da-- thing!!!

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #167 on: January 03, 2013, 04:25:17 PM »
Maybe it actually is time to lock this thread.  The title is over the top negative, and that just brings out over-the-top responses from the True Believers in response.  And every time someone bumps it, it goes back to the front page/top posts all over again.

Oh the irony...
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Radiating

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #168 on: January 03, 2013, 10:55:21 PM »
The point is that Canon is playing pricing games, like neither they nor Nikon has ever done before, and they are pricing their products 20% higher for the first 6 months than is "normal". This means your depreciation goes from 1% per month to 5% per month.

It's called intertemporal price discrimination, and it's been around for a long time in many different durable goods markets. 

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3439170?uid=3739800&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21101491313133

I'm an economic analyst so thanks for posting something relevant.

I think everyone here is horribly missing the point and this sort of ignorance is what lets these companies avoid initial backlash.

People have this ridiculous tendancy to blame buyers at every turn and think anyone who has issues has them of their own fault.

Look here is the absolute fact in this situation. The cost of owning Canon gear has increased by 4 fold over the long term. They are playing pricing games on their newest gear, and they are playing pricing games on their older gear. Everything from the 6D to the 24-70mm II to the 60D to the 5D III to the 5DII, to the 35mm/24/28 IS etc and even the 7D is going to cost much more to own.

The easiest way I can explain this is that this means that you just essentially paid $14,000 for your 5D Mark III, $4,000 for your 7D, $ 2,500 for your 60D, $7,000 for your 5D Mark II, and $9,000 for your 24-70mm Mk II etc.

What Canon has done is they have simply hidden the cost of ownership and made it so that you are essentially taking a long complex loan against yourself.

I could personally care less about their pricing games, I make enough to buy hundreds Canon pro bodies a year and have enough left over to live comfortably after throwing those in the trash, but I think it's worth taking note of this craziness.

This will backfire for Canon both from a supply and demand standpoint and from a customer sentiment standpoint. People aren't dumb and you can't leverage existing demand and think it will last forever if you destabilize the market. Once customers realize the true cost of owning the product is now 4 times greater, some sentiments will change.

Anyways I hope this is helpful, my purpose is simply to point out that this strategy is not economically viable.

neuroanatomist

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #169 on: January 03, 2013, 11:23:14 PM »
The easiest way I can explain this is that this means that you just essentially paid $14,000 for your 5D Mark III, $4,000 for your 7D, $ 2,500 for your 60D, $7,000 for your 5D Mark II, and $9,000 for your 24-70mm Mk II etc.

What Canon has done is they have simply hidden the cost of ownership and made it so that you are essentially taking a long complex loan against yourself.

Clearly, I'm not an economic analyst. Maybe if I was one, I could comprehend how a 5DII that I paid for with $2400 in cash, used for two years, then sold for $1500 in cash, somehow cost me a hidden $7000 that I loaned to myself.  I think I'll stick to elucidating the biochemical workings of the human brain, economics is too confusing.   :o
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sanj

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #170 on: January 03, 2013, 11:29:23 PM »
I could personally care less about their pricing games, I make enough to buy hundreds Canon pro bodies a year and have enough left over to live comfortably after throwing those in the trash, but I think it's worth taking note of this craziness.

Kind sir could I please inbox you my address for your trash purposes? Not that it would matter to you, but I would pay for postage. Thanks for your consideration.

And yeah, I agree that if a product price can come down within 5 months of its launch, then it was overpriced to begin with. I think that is what this thread is about....

David Hull

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #171 on: January 03, 2013, 11:49:14 PM »
The easiest way I can explain this is that this means that you just essentially paid $14,000 for your 5D Mark III, $4,000 for your 7D, $ 2,500 for your 60D, $7,000 for your 5D Mark II, and $9,000 for your 24-70mm Mk II etc.

What Canon has done is they have simply hidden the cost of ownership and made it so that you are essentially taking a long complex loan against yourself.

Clearly, I'm not an economic analyst. Maybe if I was one, I could comprehend how a 5DII that I paid for with $2400 in cash, used for two years, then sold for $1500 in cash, somehow cost me a hidden $7000 that I loaned to myself.  I think I'll stick to elucidating the biochemical workings of the human brain, economics is too confusing.   :o

I couldn't have said THAT better myself.  I bought my 5DII for 2700, used it for 5 years, sold it for 1400.  It seems that the cost of ownership was 1300.  I read that guy's post and wondered what the heck he must be smoking.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 12:32:05 AM by David Hull »

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #171 on: January 03, 2013, 11:49:14 PM »

sanj

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #172 on: January 03, 2013, 11:50:57 PM »
The easiest way I can explain this is that this means that you just essentially paid $14,000 for your 5D Mark III, $4,000 for your 7D, $ 2,500 for your 60D, $7,000 for your 5D Mark II, and $9,000 for your 24-70mm Mk II etc.

What Canon has done is they have simply hidden the cost of ownership and made it so that you are essentially taking a long complex loan against yourself.


Clearly, I'm not an economic analyst. Maybe if I was one, I could comprehend how a 5DII that I paid for with $2400 in cash, used for two years, then sold for $1500 in cash, somehow cost me a hidden $7000 that I loaned to myself.  I think I'll stick to elucidating the biochemical workings of the human brain, economics is too confusing.   :o

:) :) :)
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 12:33:34 AM by sanj »

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #173 on: January 03, 2013, 11:56:21 PM »
The easiest way I can explain this is that this means that you just essentially paid $14,000 for your 5D Mark III, $4,000 for your 7D, $ 2,500 for your 60D, $7,000 for your 5D Mark II, and $9,000 for your 24-70mm Mk II etc.

What Canon has done is they have simply hidden the cost of ownership and made it so that you are essentially taking a long complex loan against yourself.

Clearly, I'm not an economic analyst. Maybe if I was one, I could comprehend how a 5DII that I paid for with $2400 in cash, used for two years, then sold for $1500 in cash, somehow cost me a hidden $7000 that I loaned to myself.  I think I'll stick to elucidating the biochemical workings of the human brain, economics is too confusing.   :o

I couldn't have said THAT better myself.  I read that guy's post and wondered what the heck he must be smoking.

Whatever he is smoking, I really need some.  That stuff must be REALLY good.
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #174 on: January 04, 2013, 12:20:37 AM »
The cost of owning Canon gear has increased by 4 fold over the long term.
The easiest way I can explain this is that this means that you just essentially paid $14,000 for your 5D Mark III, $4,000 for your 7D, $ 2,500 for your 60D, $7,000 for your 5D Mark II, and $9,000 for your 24-70mm Mk II etc.
My 60D is a case of wine.  I paid $900 (I think) for it.  I will consume it, then it will be worth nothing.  If, perchance, I'm able to sell it for a few quid when I upgrade, so much the better.  Modern digital cameras are consumable items, not assets.

Quote
What Canon has done is they have simply hidden the cost of ownership
The cost of ownership is $900 for n years, where 0 < n <= 5.

Quote
taking a long complex loan against yourself.

OK, now you've got me curious: please try to explain this in a different way.

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buy hundreds Canon pro bodies a year and have enough left over to live comfortably after throwing those in the trash
Please add me to your trash queue.

Quote
This will backfire for Canon... People aren't dumb
I find myself skeptical.


jrh

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #175 on: January 04, 2013, 12:39:53 AM »
"I'm an economic analyst so thanks for posting something relevant.

I think everyone here is horribly missing the point and this sort of ignorance is what lets these companies avoid initial backlash."


Really, an economic analyst who doesn't know the difference of depreciation and market value as you posted earlier!?!  Maybe you can explain why Canon's stock valuation has gone up 24.61% in the last 3 months???  I think A LOT of real economic analyst's would disagree with your assessment... but everyone seems to agree you are making an ass out of yourself.

Radiating

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #176 on: January 04, 2013, 02:13:07 AM »
"I'm an economic analyst so thanks for posting something relevant.

I think everyone here is horribly missing the point and this sort of ignorance is what lets these companies avoid initial backlash."


Really, an economic analyst who doesn't know the difference of depreciation and market value as you posted earlier!?!  Maybe you can explain why Canon's stock valuation has gone up 24.61% in the last 3 months???  I think A LOT of real economic analyst's would disagree with your assessment... but everyone seems to agree you are making an ass out of yourself.

You know you have to be a real peice of work to try to insult someone who went to school for 10 years in 4 words with such certainty.



If you actually talk to Canon USA's internal folks (which I do because I take photography way too seriously as a hobby) you'll notice that they speak a lot more about marketing and economics. Whenever they talk about a product they are always talking from a market perspective. "Q:why did the 5d Mk III take so long to come out? A: Because knew we could keep selling the 5D Mk II, it was actually ready last year, but we just let it sit on the shelf until now, same with the 24-70mm Mk II" "Q:Why don't you release a updated 1Dx with f/8 AF points, A: because people will buy our cameras regardless, we aren't going to implement a feature if it's not going to be a money maker".

If you talk to the same Nikon reps you instead get the impression that they are actually trying to make the best product. "Q: Why are your lenses backwards compatible with 30 year old technology? A: Because we don't want to leave out photographers with older lenses".

Canon seemingly does not care about their clients, they care about making money and marketing, or more over exploiting the market, or so it would seem.

There's a popular economic theory that goes against most people's preconceptions of capitalism that has been backed up by numerous studies that shows that companies that have a corporate culture of expoiting customers tend to fare worse in terms of long term growth compared to companies that try to serve their customers. Think Apple as a prime example of companies that serve their customers and experience significant growth (this is regardless of price level and market dirupting products).



I couldn't have said THAT better myself.  I bought my 5DII for 2700, used it for 5 years, sold it for 1400.  It seems that the cost of ownership was 1300.  I read that guy's post and wondered what the heck he must be smoking.

Let's imagine that you purchased your 5D Mk. III at Canon's new markup and price slashing policy. That would mean you paid $3350 a few months ago and should sell it for $1300 in 5 years.

If you use historical pricing for the D700 as an indicator for the D800, then you'd pay $2700 for the body and sell it for $1700, as per the post release body pricing, and 5 year price based on the D700.

D800 cost of ownership = $1000
The 5D3 cost of ownership =$2050

Now, tell me how many Nikons you can own for the cost of ownership of 1 Canon over 5 years?
« Last Edit: January 04, 2013, 02:17:27 AM by Radiating »

lola

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #177 on: January 04, 2013, 03:58:05 AM »
The word "fanboy" just doesn't cut it anymore...
This forum is getting dumber and dumber every day...
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #177 on: January 04, 2013, 03:58:05 AM »

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #178 on: January 04, 2013, 04:43:09 AM »
Please desist the thrashing of this deceased equine quadruped. It has neither redeeming value nor consequence.
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sanj

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #179 on: January 04, 2013, 04:55:58 AM »
Which four words?

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #179 on: January 04, 2013, 04:55:58 AM »