April 18, 2014, 07:49:47 AM

Author Topic: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over  (Read 41803 times)

unfocused

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #225 on: January 06, 2013, 02:56:32 PM »
Some of these comparisons and smart a$$ comments about depreciation are ridiculous.  I don't think the OP should have started an entire thread dedicated to this and been so dramatic about it, but I can sympathize with his feelings on the 5D3 and 5D3 only.  You all act like the drop is completely normal but name one other piece of Canon gear that dropped that much that fast?

Of course depreciation is to be expected, but I think the 5D3's drop was different.   The price of the 5D Mark II dropped maybe $200 the first 2 YEARS it was out.  And if the 5D3 price pattern is the norm then why is the 1DX not under $5k now?  It's the same price it was at it's release...I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to believe their electronics won't ever depreciate, but most aren't complaining about the depreciation itself, just how quickly it happened...I don't care either way, I paid almost $3800 for mine and still think it's a great camera.  But if you had told me I could save $1600 if I buy a refurb in 7 months, or $800 waiting 5 months, I would have considered waiting.  But now I know for the future, lesson learned.

Absolutely!

I don't disagree with any of this. But, the problem with the original post is that it is based on the assumption that somehow Canon is the source of  the price drop.

The price has dropped because the market dictates prices and Canon has been unable to prevent retailers from lowering the price of  the 5DIII to reflect the demand in the competitive marketplace. I repeat once more, the only price drop from Canon has been the relatively common reduction from a "rebate," which in the case of the 5DIII amounts to $200 in the U.S. All other price cuts have been driven by retailers willing to accept smaller profits in return for higher sales.

Canon may be complacent in this, but they are not the driving force – the marketplace is. I am quite certain that if Canon had its way, the 5DIII would remain at its introductory price. But, in a competitive, capitalistic market, they don't get to determine that – we as consumers do.

Consumers have been voting with their feet and retailers are responding. I sympathize with individuals who are dismayed by the apparent price drops, but it is wrong to attribute market forces to some bizarre conspiracy theory.

Mr Axilrod's post raises a very interesting point: is this part of a new trend or just a one time error on Canon's part? I agree, we would all be wise not to rush to purchase any new Canon products that seem to be overpriced for the market, but instead wait to see where the marketplace sets the "true" price.

(As an aside, I have to tip my hat to Mr. Radiating. It seems the joke may have been on us. His on-line persona – that of a fabulously wealthy economic analyst who in his spare time consults with Canon and provides their engineering department with solutions to problems that they themselves have been unable to solve – has got to be one of the most creative uses of trolling I've ever seen.)
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #225 on: January 06, 2013, 02:56:32 PM »

Hobby Shooter

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #226 on: January 06, 2013, 06:31:05 PM »
Some of these comparisons and smart a$$ comments about depreciation are ridiculous.  I don't think the OP should have started an entire thread dedicated to this and been so dramatic about it, but I can sympathize with his feelings on the 5D3 and 5D3 only.  You all act like the drop is completely normal but name one other piece of Canon gear that dropped that much that fast?

Of course depreciation is to be expected, but I think the 5D3's drop was different.   The price of the 5D Mark II dropped maybe $200 the first 2 YEARS it was out.  And if the 5D3 price pattern is the norm then why is the 1DX not under $5k now?  It's the same price it was at it's release...I don't think anyone here is stupid enough to believe their electronics won't ever depreciate, but most aren't complaining about the depreciation itself, just how quickly it happened...I don't care either way, I paid almost $3800 for mine and still think it's a great camera.  But if you had told me I could save $1600 if I buy a refurb in 7 months, or $800 waiting 5 months, I would have considered waiting.  But now I know for the future, lesson learned.

Absolutely!

I don't disagree with any of this. But, the problem with the original post is that it is based on the assumption that somehow Canon is the source of  the price drop.

The price has dropped because the market dictates prices and Canon has been unable to prevent retailers from lowering the price of  the 5DIII to reflect the demand in the competitive marketplace. I repeat once more, the only price drop from Canon has been the relatively common reduction from a "rebate," which in the case of the 5DIII amounts to $200 in the U.S. All other price cuts have been driven by retailers willing to accept smaller profits in return for higher sales.

Canon may be complacent in this, but they are not the driving force – the marketplace is. I am quite certain that if Canon had its way, the 5DIII would remain at its introductory price. But, in a competitive, capitalistic market, they don't get to determine that – we as consumers do.

Consumers have been voting with their feet and retailers are responding. I sympathize with individuals who are dismayed by the apparent price drops, but it is wrong to attribute market forces to some bizarre conspiracy theory.

Mr Axilrod's post raises a very interesting point: is this part of a new trend or just a one time error on Canon's part? I agree, we would all be wise not to rush to purchase any new Canon products that seem to be overpriced for the market, but instead wait to see where the marketplace sets the "true" price.

(As an aside, I have to tip my hat to Mr. Radiating. It seems the joke may have been on us. His on-line persona – that of a fabulously wealthy economic analyst who in his spare time consults with Canon and provides their engineering department with solutions to problems that they themselves have been unable to solve – has got to be one of the most creative uses of trolling I've ever seen.)
As always a great post from you. Thanks, you made my morning here.  ;D

x-vision

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #227 on: January 06, 2013, 07:38:13 PM »
... is this part of a new trend or just a one time error on Canon's part?

Here's what we have seen since the beginning of 2012:
  • The new 24-70/2.8 II and the new IS primes (24mm, 28mm, 35mm) are ~2x more expensive than the products they are replacing (current prices).
  • The 1DX and the 5DIII are ~30% more expensive than the 1DIV and 5DII respectively (intro prices).
  • The new 24-70/4L is ~30% more expensive than the 24-105/4L.
  • The new Rebel (650D) was announced at $850, which is 8% more than the 600D intro price of $800.
  • Considering its specs, the new 6D could also be considered overpriced (although under-spec'd might be a more accurate description).

Overall, we are seeing price hikes on all new Canon products.
So, definitely not a one time error. More like a new pricing policy.

Let's see how long this policy will last, though.
Those deep Christmas discounts are telling me that the market doesn't agree with Canon on the new pricing.
And, of course, the market has the last word.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2013, 08:02:50 PM by x-vision »

cszy67

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #228 on: January 06, 2013, 09:34:32 PM »
Sorry if this has been addressed already but I just do not have the time to read through this entire post - has anyone considered the loss in value of the US dollar as compared to the Japanese Yen as part of the reason for the sharp upturn in Canon's pricing?

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=USD&to=JPY&view=5Y



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Zo0m

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #229 on: January 06, 2013, 09:45:45 PM »
I live in Europe and canon are raising their prices here by 2x as well despite that the value of our currency has remained on the same level as the Yen...
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scrup

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #230 on: January 07, 2013, 02:07:22 AM »
Canon needs to protect the professional wedding photographers so charged a premium knowing full well that those that used it for business would fork out the initial cost.

One reason prices have come down is because of the d800 and d600. If it wasn't for competition Canon would of just kept the price as high as possible.

Another reason mark3 prices we're high was because of the mark2. They had a lot of stock to offload and now that most of it has been sold they can come back to earth with the pricing.



awinphoto

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #231 on: January 07, 2013, 12:55:08 PM »
Dang them for forcing us into buying their overpriced gear... dang it!!!! (slamming fists on the ground)
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #231 on: January 07, 2013, 12:55:08 PM »

HurtinMinorKey

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #232 on: January 07, 2013, 03:29:46 PM »

The OP should have written "Governments cannot keep screwing their citizens over" (by debasing their currencies with QE and absurd ZIRP monetary policy), but that would require some modicum of intelligence and understanding ::)


A little bit of information is a dangerous thing.

The US recovery has been better since the financial crisis than Europe because of policies like QE, and deficit spending.  The FED was 3 years ahead of ECB on QE.
 



scokar

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #233 on: January 07, 2013, 05:17:44 PM »
...
btw explains 80% of the price drop of the 5D3 but seems to go unnoticed by 99% of CR
...

Not unnoticed and in your opinion.  If this were true. the 5D3 MSRP whould have risen **significantly** in either June or late September. 

In mine,  the market place is having more of an impact.


cszy67

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #234 on: January 07, 2013, 09:25:24 PM »
I live in Europe and canon are raising their prices here by 2x as well despite that the value of our currency has remained on the same level as the Yen...


Thanks for the valid suggestion but the Euro has not been doing well either. Maybe this is more of a Western Civilization sort of thing  :o

http://www.xe.com/currencycharts/?from=EUR&to=JPY&view=5Y
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bdunbar79

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #235 on: January 08, 2013, 12:30:14 AM »
Dang them for forcing us into buying their overpriced gear... dang it!!!! (slamming fists on the ground)

Fantastic post!

Canon-F1

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #236 on: January 08, 2013, 09:28:02 AM »
Dang them for forcing us into buying their overpriced gear... dang it!!!! (slamming fists on the ground)

Fantastic post!

yeah if your IQ is at 2 digits.....
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Eric_2012

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #237 on: January 08, 2013, 10:24:03 AM »
I agree a good post but when new things are released no matter what they are you can expect to pay list.  Why do people have to be the first to own some new release?   The depreciation they see over the subsequent months is the price for wanting to be part of that club.  If you know full well that months later it will be cheaper why do it?

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #237 on: January 08, 2013, 10:24:03 AM »

insanitybeard

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #238 on: January 08, 2013, 10:30:12 AM »
Dang them for forcing us into buying their overpriced gear... dang it!!!! (slamming fists on the ground)

Fantastic post!

yeah if your IQ is at 2 digits.....

Your own insight into the matter provided ample evidence that yours is considerably higher...
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unfocused

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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #239 on: January 08, 2013, 10:33:48 AM »
I agree a good post but when new things are released no matter what they are you can expect to pay list.  Why do people have to be the first to own some new release?   The depreciation they see over the subsequent months is the price for wanting to be part of that club.  If you know full well that months later it will be cheaper why do it?

More to the point: Why do it and then complain about it?
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Re: Canon Cannot Keep Screwing It's Customers Over
« Reply #239 on: January 08, 2013, 10:33:48 AM »