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Author Topic: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results  (Read 3902 times)

Basti187

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5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« on: December 21, 2012, 10:42:34 AM »
Hey guys,

just spend a few hours calibrating my 5dm3 as I was really unhappy with the unsharp results of it.

I used Reikan Focal 1.6.0 Plus, the fully AFMA.

The results vary quite a lot though when I change range so I am wondering what to calibrate it at.

I did this for two lenses...my 24-105mm and the 100-400mm.

Results: 24-105mm

24mm

EV 7 5.4m W+1
EV 7 3.3m W+2
EV 7 0.8m W+3

105mm

EV 7.5 7m (14m zoomed)    T-1
EV 7.5 3.9m (7.9m zoomed)T+6
EV 7.5 2.5m                         T+5
EV 7.5 1.6m                         T+7
EV 7.5 0.8m                         T+7


_______________________________________________

Results: 100-400mm

100mm

EV 7.5 1.9m W+0
EV 7.5 3.1m W+0
EV 7.5 4.7m W+4
EV 7.5 7.0m (13m zoomed) W+2


400mm

EV 8 7.0m  T+4
EV 8 5.7m  T+4
EV 8 4.5m  T+4
EV 8 3.5m  T+7
EV 8 2.5m  T+9


So, I guess the 400mm one to keep at T+4 as I used it for far away wildlife most of times. Considering the other focal lenghts I could use a bit of advice please.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2012, 11:24:40 AM »
I think you should repeat the testing with more light.  Your EV's are quite low, I'd recommend getting them above EV 10.
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JaxPhotographer

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2012, 12:27:04 PM »
Neuro's suggestion is valid. As far as being concerned with the range, it seems you are operating outside the recommended 25x-50x focal length for the calibration on a number of your distances tested. I recommend that when you retest with higher EV 's you also work inside the recommended test ranges and use those figures initially until you can validate with some real shooting results.

If you need a quick calculator to confirm your target distances at different focal lengths, try the link below for a competitors product:

http://michaeltapesdesign.com/lensalign.html
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East Wind Photography

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2012, 03:02:46 PM »
The only exception to that would be any lens you plan to use for close up work or macro.  You still need to calibrate in the recommended range but ALSO at a range Representative of the type of closeup work you would be doing.  Also make sure you are not using Florescent, CF, or LED lighting.  The flicker messes with the analysis.  Use daylight on a cloudless day or some very strong halogen lighting.

Neuro's suggestion is valid. As far as being concerned with the range, it seems you are operating outside the recommended 25x-50x focal length for the calibration on a number of your distances tested. I recommend that when you retest with higher EV 's you also work inside the recommended test ranges and use those figures initially until you can validate with some real shooting results.

If you need a quick calculator to confirm your target distances at different focal lengths, try the link below for a competitors product:

http://michaeltapesdesign.com/lensalign.html

sagittariansrock

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2012, 03:21:40 PM »
Neuro's suggestion is valid. As far as being concerned with the range, it seems you are operating outside the recommended 25x-50x focal length for the calibration on a number of your distances tested. I recommend that when you retest with higher EV 's you also work inside the recommended test ranges and use those figures initially until you can validate with some real shooting results.

If you need a quick calculator to confirm your target distances at different focal lengths, try the link below for a competitors product:

http://michaeltapesdesign.com/lensalign.html


I saw Neuro's excellent tutorial on how to use it, but I wasn't sure if I'd have the time for it.
On the other hand FoCal seems both easy and cheap. However, when that is the case there's also a catch or else why would anyone use LensAlign.
So I'd really appreciate someone knowledgeable to advise on what the pros and cons of the two are for AFMA.
Thanks
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neuroanatomist

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2012, 03:27:08 PM »
I wrote the tutorial before FoCal was available.  I've sold my LensAlign Pro and I use FoCal now.
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mememe

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2012, 03:30:29 PM »
Can someone do this with a really new Lens? (70-200 2.8 II or 24-70 II)?

There was a Rumor that Canon changed Autofocus algorithms and Focus is now checked after focussing and corrected if not perfect (u can see this when the Lens does a tiny step after the first fast and large one). But it works only with new Lenses and Cameras (rumor said so)

crasher8

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2012, 03:31:40 PM »
As a Mac user I find the Beta is of zero worth to me for a 5D3. pity. So Focal Pro just sits for me until Canon changes the SDK.

East Wind Photography

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2012, 03:52:06 PM »
New version (alpha) claims to be able to do it now in two shots (the third being the shot taken at the selected AFMA).  If that's true then MSC mode is not that big of a deal...Though I will have to see it to believe it.

As a Mac user I find the Beta is of zero worth to me for a 5D3. pity. So Focal Pro just sits for me until Canon changes the SDK.

Drizzt321

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2012, 04:50:43 PM »
Can someone do this with a really new Lens? (70-200 2.8 II or 24-70 II)?

There was a Rumor that Canon changed Autofocus algorithms and Focus is now checked after focussing and corrected if not perfect (u can see this when the Lens does a tiny step after the first fast and large one). But it works only with new Lenses and Cameras (rumor said so)

Yes, it's still useful. The newer lenses combined with newer bodies tend to have better AF consistency, but in terms of actual focus accuracy MFA can still improve things since you can still have a mis-match between what the actual focus is, and what the AF sensor says it is.
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junkwerks

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2012, 05:23:59 PM »
Just curious  --  did you have any indication that something was wrong before you did the testing?

PackLight

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2012, 05:43:04 PM »
Basti187

Your lighting is less than recommended and the brighter the better. That is an obvious issue with your test.

But let me give you a few thoughts that might help you.

I have found the following to be true whether you use lensalign or focal.

Light differences will give you different results. Not only can they be more inaccurate, but different intensities can cause slight variations.

Different distances can give you different results. So shooting at different distances will give you an idea, but keep this in mind. The farther you are from your subject the deeper the DOF. So even though the settings farther away may be different your DOF may compensate. I would suggest the 50x focal length that is recommended, and possibly 25x if you like to shoot close sometimes. The farther away the less critical the results.

Zooms are flakey, and even when you get fairly consistent results they will never be as accurate as most primes. Differences from the long end to the short is common.

Set up in a clinical manner, use consistent lighting, set up square, measure your target center from the floor and match the lens center. Variations in lighting and set up can cause you the most frustration.

Good Luck

CharlieB

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2012, 07:07:54 PM »
I think you should repeat the testing with more light.  Your EV's are quite low, I'd recommend getting them above EV 10.

Just a point of order, to say that EV is not an indication of the amount of light - although most folks think it is.

EV, without an ISO reference is useless to determine light levels.  You can only say that for any given EV, at the same ISO, the lower number means less light, but thats it.


CharlieB

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2012, 07:12:12 PM »
Should also say - test in bright light, but if you're not getting consistent results near to far.... time for a body recalibration at Canon.

My 7D was awful... could AFMA for near, or middle, or far, but it would throw the other distances all off focus, by a LOT.

For instance, if I AFMA'd at say 2 meters with a 28mm lens, at 10 meters, I'd be back focusing, and at infinity I'd be front focusing!
 
Trip to Canon solved it, and it tracks near to far dead on now.  Some lenses still need some AFMA tweakage, but thats ok.  I'm finding if I tweak at about the 50x the focal length - its about right (as they suggest).  And, that all of my lenses focused well at infinity (aka, the moon) while it was always the near end that needed some tweakage - which the AFMA did just fine.

neuroanatomist

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Re: 5dm3 AFMA Focal results
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2012, 07:37:04 PM »
I think you should repeat the testing with more light.  Your EV's are quite low, I'd recommend getting them above EV 10.

Just a point of order, to say that EV is not an indication of the amount of light - although most folks think it is.

EV, without an ISO reference is useless to determine light levels.  You can only say that for any given EV, at the same ISO, the lower number means less light, but thats it.

Technically true, but practically, most photographic discussions assume ISO 100 so the EV concept can be applied to real-world situations, such as when Canon indicated the 1D X can AF at EV -2, which moonlight from a full moon.  FoCal also assumes ISO 100.
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