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Author Topic: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?  (Read 13407 times)

jakeymate

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Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« on: June 29, 2011, 07:17:20 PM »
Too many muppets who don't have the first clue.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2011, 10:35:16 AM by jakeymate »

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Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« on: June 29, 2011, 07:17:20 PM »

hlphoto

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #1 on: June 29, 2011, 07:55:12 PM »
You forgot to add "Japan - the home of Canon - got struck by the power of nature and is dangerous nucleair territory in one part & out of power in another" in your line-up of world events.

AG

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #2 on: June 29, 2011, 08:56:22 PM »
You forgot to add "Japan - the home of Canon - got struck by the power of nature and is dangerous nucleair territory in one part & out of power in another" in your line-up of world events.

I think you missed the OP's point.

OP: i Agree with you about 80%.

The 20% that i don't agree with is the part about we are willing to buy a new camera every 2 years. I feel that in all seriousness most DSLR users will hold onto a camera for a few years (say 3-4) and then upgrade.
BUT in that time they also want to see significant improvement and not just a minor refresh when they do come to making the upgrade.

Current 5D2 shooters will want something that either radically changes the way the camera works or has a feature that revolutionises the way they use the it and not just a few more MP etc. Otherwise the bitching you will hear will be so loud the recent Final Cut Pro X debacle will seem like nothing.
Yes, i shoot video on a DSLR.

gene_can_sing

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #3 on: June 29, 2011, 09:16:35 PM »
I wonder about that too. The crazy thing is the 5D2 is just a derivative of the last 1D which was 4 years ago, so yeah.... it's been a really long time. I'm seriously wondering if Canon plans on releasing anything at all this year, or even next year since they're moving so slow now. 5D3 in 2014.

As for the earthquake excuse, I'm not buying that one. Sony just released some insane video cameras and are continuing to put out stuff, so there's no reason Canon shouldn't.

I honestly think that Canon, like Apple, has began to / or already abandon the Pro market. Which really sucks for me because I have too many Canon lenses. There's a lot more money in selling cameras to Mom and Dad, then the camera nerds. The only camera in Canon's line that gets a regular update is the Rebel, and that is not exciting in the least.

And yes, I got the Canon DSLRs for the video which was amazing at the time, and it's really aged at this point.

As a company, Canon makes me sad...... :(
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 09:57:02 PM by gene_can_sing »

hlphoto

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #4 on: June 29, 2011, 09:54:03 PM »
Sarcastic bugger? Give me a better reason why there isn't a single 5D Mk2 in stores in all kinds of places all over the planet & all these new lenses are so hard to find. Everything is being delayed, delayed, delayed, prices are going up, up, up and all decent rumours sources have gone silent.

As far as I'm concerned one thing has really happened in DSLR land and that's the announcement of the Sigma SD1.

Furthermore, I do think the 5D series of cams was actually on a three year refresh schedule, but things got messed up due to the earthquake. Actually, also the 1D and 1Ds were on a three-year schedule so the only thing already late as we speak is the 1Ds Mk4.

Do note though, Canon can still make it to keep to a close-to-exact three year schedule simply by releasing a Mk3 before Q4-2011.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Canon_DSLR_cameras

PS: Just wondering, did you take your 2-year trade-up scheme from buying lower-specced cams? >> Canon has always refreshed the xxxD series (Rebels in America, I believe?) within the year. The xxD series are on an 18 month sched.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2011, 10:00:33 PM by hlphoto »

Haydn1971

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2011, 12:57:48 AM »
All product cycles are driven by market competition, at the moment, regardless of attempts by Sony, there are two key players, who are really pushing the game to any degree, because they don't make big money from high end products. 

I read yesterday that industry analysts are suggesting that Apple is considering a range of two, perhaps three phones to increase it's market share, as currently their product only really sells via contracts which represent something like 25% of the world market, so the suggested plan is to sell a cut back version that looks the same, but uses tech from a few years back, probably the 3GS tech in a 4 case.  What struck me was how big that market was - 5.7Bn people !  Now if the digital camera market is lets guess, just a tenth of that, that's a bloody lot of cameras being sold, so making an extra £10 per point and shoot becomes much more critical than making a high end camera that they can sell for £500 more than an existing product.

Essentially, until such time that the high end DSLR market is offering little benefit over the ranges below, there is little real business sense in moving forward - I suspect there is good reason the whole current crop range is just 18mp, as it's a good step below the high end full frame products, so once the big step comes, which I expect to be a real step up of at least 25-50% performance gain in a key area - most likely pixel count, expect a rush of step upgrades to the crop bodies, each one being 5-10% each cycle.

Canon and Nikon will have the tech now, but are playing a game of Mexican standoff until one breaks due to a drop in sales of their entry level products.  Nikon currently has a tad more headroom, so I expect Canon to jump first, closely followed by a slightly better spec Nikon product.
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DEngle

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 01:48:35 AM »
I don't know squat.  But my guess is that, in response to the competition, canon scrapped one or two products late in the design process and started over.

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2011, 01:48:35 AM »

aldvan

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2011, 02:14:10 AM »
I'll try on the optimistic side: should the Mankind be getting wiser?

bycostello

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2011, 03:48:09 AM »
same as any developed market.. camera development is slowing down, there isn't much more you need on there.... 

Hillsilly

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2011, 04:58:27 AM »
Very interesting question.  The last decade has been very exciting, with so many improvements and developments in digital photograpy.   But, over time, the changes have become evolutionary, rather than revolutionary.  I suspect that we'll have to get use to 3 - 4 year gaps between new models.  And in some point in the near future, sensor development will play a minor role in new model releases.  The new features and improvments are more likely to involve new processors, connections (eg whatever replaces HDMI, bluetooth and WIFI) and autofocus improvments, rather than sensor upgrades. 

Have Canon already stopped Full Frame sensor development?  Probably not.  But how much better can sensors become?  And how much of Canon's resources are going to be allocated to FF R & D going forward?

The other big question - If the 5Diii is everything that everyone hopes, how much better would a 5Div need to be to encourage people to upgrade?  A lot of people out there must be thinking that a 5Diii might be the last camera they will need to buy for a long, long time.  Will this push Canon on to new heights in sensor development to generate more sales?  Or will we just get minor tweaks?
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NXT1000

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2011, 05:52:30 AM »
Two years cycle for a brand new full frame camera, i do not want such short product cycle. I want one 4 years at least, it is not a cheap product that changes every other year. No way i want that.

The earthquake was so strong it move earth axis by a few mrad.
The nuclear disaster really mess up their so call JIT, Just in time production.
Please give the Japanese some time to recover from this disaster and stop asking the impossible. 5D2 was brillant 3 years ago and will be just as brillant 3 years later from now. It is an amazing camera (except the focusing). Where are the competition to beat 5D2? Nikon, sony, pentax, olympus, dun make me laugh.



neskvik

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2011, 06:40:05 AM »
this is the biggest tabloid about canon...not any better then UK´s SUN, not even for fun
waste of time
flutter like chickens in the market

Rowbear

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2011, 07:08:24 AM »
I honestly think that Canon, like Apple, has began to / or already abandon the Pro market.

And all those new long lens (3,4,5 and 6oomm) announced aren't for Pros ? How about the 200-400 in developpement ? The 8-15 fisheye ?

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2011, 07:08:24 AM »

hlphoto

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2011, 07:11:52 AM »
I'm really starting to think some of you guys need a decent lesson in Photoshop.
I don't ever hesitate to go up to ISO 6400, 5000 for a wedding, on a 5D Mark II.
When I see I need 12800 I take a good look at the colours in my picture-to-be and then decide if I'll bump up & shoot or risk a little movement in my picture.

I have an f/2.8 1/30s ISO 4000 print that came out of a Nikon D90 on my wall that looks more than fine (yes, from a concert).

Would like to see a new model camera myself, but you guys are just nagging too much and not thinking straight. Why ever would Canon want to upgrade a camera already at the end of it's lifecycle which will keep people from buying the model really following up?

hlphoto

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2011, 08:14:30 AM »
I guess it really depends on what you want to use it for, but a bit of noise never seemed to bother any of my events clients, yet I find a blurry image within three clicks in the portfolio on your website (events, third picture, far from sharp).

I guess that image says we're never too old to learn.

As for your "ISO 1600 is not even good enough"-story: This made it to a (HUGE!) print and it's an ISO 2000 shot from the 5D Mark II.


Shot with an 85mm f/1.8 @ f/2.2

At ISO 6400, and - apart from blowing out a stagelight (which it would also do at ISO 200 and I actually even remember the light being extremely bright in the show) - it holds on to the colours very well and noiselevels are more than acceptable. Fine detail in both microphone, face and guitar were fine.


Shot with a 70-200 f/2.8 L USM wide open

I think this can also be called a very acceptable image considering the (extremely dark) circumstances. The guitarist was standing out of the stagelights all the time and since he's quite well known as a solo artist around here I decided to try and shoot a few of him performing anyway. Have a guess at which ISO this picture was taken.


Shot with a 70-200 f/2.8 L USM @ 200mm wide open

Concerning pushing it too hard... 5D Mark II with 35mm f/1.4 L USM at ISO 25600, believe at f/2 and I had to push exposure 2/3 of a stop in post:


Edit: Correction. Image above = ISO 25600 pushed 2/3 stop, f/1.4 (wide open) at 35mm.

No camera has really blown away the 5D Mark II for image noise yet, but the D3s. Even the D700 and the D3 are only slightly better under the right circumstances, but if you say you need large prints I can imagine 12mp not being enough for you either.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2011, 08:27:10 AM by hlphoto »

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Re: Do Canon still develop Full Frame Cameras?
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2011, 08:14:30 AM »