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Author Topic: Canon Announces EOS 60D  (Read 60991 times)

Shompis

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #90 on: August 26, 2010, 07:23:08 PM »
Microadjustment is pretty useless and will do more harm than good. So I can understand why they removed it.
Then why is it in the higher priced models?  Are you predicting it will be removed from all future Canon models?

Does anyone know if the focus tuning that Canon does when you send in a lens and body (say a 40D) is essentially the same thing as micro focus adjustment in the 7D, 50D, etc.?  If it is essentially the same then it is NOT useless.  I am amazed at what they tuning of my lenses with my 40D.  It went from I didn't want to take pictures to me marveling at their sharpness.

Not sure if you are serious. But when you micro adjust, you adjust for one fixed set of focal length, distance to the subject and aperture. Essentially it is for emergency cases when you can't focus properly and you need to make that shot no matter what. But it still has to be professionaly calibrated afterwards. At a service center, they never micro AF adjust. For a zoom lens for example, they adjust 8 control points. A properly calibrated lens does not need any micro AF adjustment, period.

So it will probably be left in the pro models (see emergency cases where there is no service center near you and you need to make the shot now, not tomorrow), but in consumer products such as XX series? No.

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #90 on: August 26, 2010, 07:23:08 PM »

canonguy

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #91 on: August 26, 2010, 07:53:37 PM »
The real reason for this release:

"Canon was so jealous of the Nikon D90 sales that they wanted their own crap camera."

"Why not lets make a camera exactly like the D90 then lets add a swivel lcd and embed post processing filter tools... maybe they will sell more than the D90."
« Last Edit: August 26, 2010, 08:10:18 PM by canonguy »

J

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #92 on: August 26, 2010, 09:12:26 PM »
Naturally, Canon can spec their cameras however they want. They'll just get an upgrade sale every 6+ years instead of every 3 from the installed base. If that's part of their plan, then fine. But the SLR and SLR-like market is already pretty mature, so how much new blood does Canon seriously think they can attract? And this does target newer buyers, in some weird way that seems to ignore Sony and m4/3. It offers fairly little to their existing customers.

It's not like I'm being melodramatic and claiming that I'm jumping brands. I'm not. Bodies come and go. I'd say every manufacturer intentionally cripples their products in some way, but it's not too often that a company shoves it in your face.

koi

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #93 on: August 26, 2010, 09:29:49 PM »
I'm glad I bought the 7d instead of waiting for the 60d.  I would have liked an articulating screen but the downsides of the 60d outweigh the good.

ELK

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #94 on: August 27, 2010, 01:30:40 AM »
The real reason for this release:

"Canon was so jealous of the Nikon D90 sales that they wanted their own crap camera."

"Why not lets make a camera exactly like the D90 then lets add a swivel lcd and embed post processing filter tools... maybe they will sell more than the D90."

Absolutely! But Canon is 2 years behind with that idea. Now the new D95/D7000 will be new Nikon bestseller with incomparably better features. Let me bet... Canon will release it's 70D version 2 years later!

unexposure

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #95 on: August 27, 2010, 02:52:06 AM »
My opinion is, that the 60D just exactly fits the needs of any small-press-photographer/photojournalist in newspapers oder maybe blogs.

Reasons:
- To fill half a newspaper-site with one photo, it has to measure about 2000x1500 pixel. common newspaper printing is done in 130 to 180 dpi. But having 18MP to work with gives you a lot more freedom in taking the shots. Shoot at 6400ISO, getting heavy denoise filter on it in postprocessing, resharpen, scale down to what your current need is, resharpen again. Result: Picture will be fine for release.
- Articulating display is great to have. There are so many times where you just can't step on your ladder (if you carry one around with you) to take a picture. Another example is to do unusual perspectives where architecture is the barrier to overcome - either you take a special lens for that (maybe t/s) or you just cannot do it without articulating/flip-screen. For those reasons I allways take my old finepix9600 in bag for situations that simply can't be handled that good with a 50d.
- Eye-Fi is pretty cool stuff. When the production needs the pics as fast as possible, my workflow is: taking the pictures, pluggin in the cable to connect to a netbook, send em via umts. Eye-Fi enables you practically realtime-stream the pics to your note-/netbook, which may save some time. Other thing is, espacially in studio-situations, you get rid of the annoying cable when using your computer to display the results instead of the tiny camera-display, what really makes sense to me. Only thing, thats a little pity here, is that they could have made the wireless option a direct part of the cam instead of just making it ready for wireless-usage.
- the wireless flash trigger is more a "nice to have". beeing able to do unchained lighting with "on board"-tools is pretty fine i think. but would even be better being able to controll more than one speedlite.
- last but not least, I really appreciate the wheight-and sizereduction compared with 50d/70d which makes it for me easier to handle (i've got no super-sized hands) an less to carry. i don't really miss the mg-body either. it's just look and feel to me - i really can go without.

drummstikk

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2010, 03:12:07 AM »
I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?

Truth spoken here.

I come to eat my words because I was one who said "There will be no 60D." However, if I had only rephrased to say, "There will not be the 60D that everyone on this forum is expecting," the posts here seem to acknowledge I was right.

This camera has been the target of unrealistic expectations from day one.  "I want the 7D but I only want it to cost $999.00"  (Cue the crying baby.)  Of course, this is mostly Canon's fault, because the 50D was underpriced by at least $200.00 and they had fostered the expectation of a better camera for 100 bucks less every year and a half since the 20D.

Dumb marketing by Canon led to dumb expectations on the part of the customers. Kinda sad all around. Literally the most interesting annoucement of the day for me was the Final Cut video plug-in. I could get excited that the new revs of the 300mm 2.8 and 400mm 2.8 might drive down prices on used copies of the current models, but I assume Canon will continue their recent practice of jacking up the prices on the new versions, which will prop up used prices at the same time.

70-300 4.0/5.6? What were they thinking? Have they seriously put the zoom ring out in front of the focus ring? Hey, Canon! If you have to design lenses, don't drink. If you have to drink, don't design lenses.

Fisheye zoom? Sounds kind of ridiculous, but I'll reserve judgment until I see what people post from that lens on Flikr.
"Focused. Or focused not. There is no 'almost.'"

                                                          --Yoda (paraphrase)

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #96 on: August 27, 2010, 03:12:07 AM »

ELK

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #97 on: August 27, 2010, 06:27:23 AM »
Some interesting details. As far as I know 1D Mark III-IV, 5D mark II, 7D and 50D have AF microadjustment. Interestingly that detail was mentioned in press releases of 1D Mark III , 5D mark II and 50D only.
I contacted Canon USA and asked if there is a chance that Canon will implement AF microadjustment in production model. Here's their response:

"There is currently no information regarding whether the 60D will have AF
microadjustment.  The pre-production version does not, but we do not
know if the production model will.  The camera was just announced today,
so there is very limited information.  We will have more information in
a few weeks."

Who knows how to contact Canon CEO? :)

Tusker

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #98 on: August 27, 2010, 12:39:29 PM »
Literally the most interesting annoucement of the day for me was the Final Cut video plug-in.

Excuse me for my ignorance but what is video plug in? and how does that effect?

Thanks for your help.

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #99 on: August 27, 2010, 02:32:51 PM »
I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?

Truth spoken here.

This camera has been the target of unrealistic expectations from day one.  "I want the 7D but I only want it to cost $999.00"  (Cue the crying baby.)  Of course, this is mostly Canon's fault, because the 50D was underpriced by at least $200.00 and they had fostered the expectation of a better camera for 100 bucks less every year and a half since the 20D.

Dumb marketing by Canon led to dumb expectations on the part of the customers. Kinda sad all around ...

What I was expecting was an up-graded EOS 50D with an 18mp sensor and video selling for $1,300.00 at the release. And I would have ordered that 18mp w/video 50D for $1,300.00 yesterday. But Canon released a Rebel in an xxD body, so I didn't order a 60D.

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need, if it was I'd have ordered it the day it was released. I'm not a fanboy who's jonesing for a new Canon.

gkreis

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #100 on: August 27, 2010, 02:48:35 PM »
Some interesting details. As far as I know 1D Mark III-IV, 5D mark II, 7D and 50D have AF microadjustment. Interestingly that detail was mentioned in press releases of 1D Mark III , 5D mark II and 50D only.
I contacted Canon USA and asked if there is a chance that Canon will implement AF microadjustment in production model. Here's their response:

"There is currently no information regarding whether the 60D will have AF
microadjustment.  The pre-production version does not, but we do not
know if the production model will.  The camera was just announced today,
so there is very limited information.  We will have more information in
a few weeks."

Who knows how to contact Canon CEO? :)

I hope you are right, but do you think they would add it when the website details don't show it? I know they don't say it doesn't have it.  But I guess I don't know if they have ever done that between the news released and before the camera is actually sold?

Interesting.....

scw

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #101 on: August 27, 2010, 02:52:03 PM »
I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?

Truth spoken here.

This camera has been the target of unrealistic expectations from day one.  "I want the 7D but I only want it to cost $999.00"  (Cue the crying baby.)  Of course, this is mostly Canon's fault, because the 50D was underpriced by at least $200.00 and they had fostered the expectation of a better camera for 100 bucks less every year and a half since the 20D.

Dumb marketing by Canon led to dumb expectations on the part of the customers. Kinda sad all around ...

What I was expecting was an up-graded EOS 50D with an 18mp sensor and video selling for $1,300.00 at the release. And I would have ordered that 18mp w/video 50D for $1,300.00 yesterday. But Canon released a Rebel in an xxD body, so I didn't order a 60D.

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need, if it was I'd have ordered it the day it was released. I'm not a fanboy who's jonesing for a new Canon.


I agree 100% with c.d.embrey, my thoughts exactly!

gkreis

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2010, 02:57:36 PM »
Microadjustment is pretty useless and will do more harm than good. So I can understand why they removed it.
Then why is it in the higher priced models?  Are you predicting it will be removed from all future Canon models?

Does anyone know if the focus tuning that Canon does when you send in a lens and body (say a 40D) is essentially the same thing as micro focus adjustment in the 7D, 50D, etc.?  If it is essentially the same then it is NOT useless.  I am amazed at what they tuning of my lenses with my 40D.  It went from I didn't want to take pictures to me marveling at their sharpness.

Not sure if you are serious. But when you micro adjust, you adjust for one fixed set of focal length, distance to the subject and aperture. Essentially it is for emergency cases when you can't focus properly and you need to make that shot no matter what. But it still has to be professionaly calibrated afterwards. At a service center, they never micro AF adjust. For a zoom lens for example, they adjust 8 control points. A properly calibrated lens does not need any micro AF adjustment, period.

So it will probably be left in the pro models (see emergency cases where there is no service center near you and you need to make the shot now, not tomorrow), but in consumer products such as XX series? No.

I am serious.  I am ignorant of what goes in the service center when they calibrate the lens with the camera and I haven't found anything that describes it.

I know this.  My 40D and lenses were tack sharp after Canon calibrated them.  Then my 40D died.  They replaced the electronics and the camera went right back to the same poor focus performance.  So what they did earlier seems to have been stored in the electronics.  Also, the Canon rep told me they do not adjust lenses themselves as I expressed concern it might affect it with another body. So I sent the 40D back with three lenses (the 100mm Macro was spot on) and the magic was restored.

So, if they don't actually do anything to the lens, are they doing some sort of highly sophisticated form of micro-adjustment?  Why did my settings all disappear when the electronics board was replaced?

I'd love someone to point me to some info on the web that could explain when the center does when they calibrate the body with the lenses.

Thanks.

P.S.
Some folks say that micro-adjustment only affects the focal length you adjust and that it is a waste of time. Others have sworn by the results. So who is right?


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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #102 on: August 27, 2010, 02:57:36 PM »

ELK

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #103 on: August 27, 2010, 03:04:31 PM »
I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?

Truth spoken here.

This camera has been the target of unrealistic expectations from day one.  "I want the 7D but I only want it to cost $999.00"  (Cue the crying baby.)  Of course, this is mostly Canon's fault, because the 50D was underpriced by at least $200.00 and they had fostered the expectation of a better camera for 100 bucks less every year and a half since the 20D.

Dumb marketing by Canon led to dumb expectations on the part of the customers. Kinda sad all around ...

What I was expecting was an up-graded EOS 50D with an 18mp sensor and video selling for $1,300.00 at the release. And I would have ordered that 18mp w/video 50D for $1,300.00 yesterday. But Canon released a Rebel in an xxD body, so I didn't order a 60D.

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need, if it was I'd have ordered it the day it was released. I'm not a fanboy who's jonesing for a new Canon.


I agree 100% with c.d.embrey, my thoughts exactly!

Please excuse my curiosity, but I can't understand what you don't like in $1500 7D so much in that you were ready to pay $1300 for 60D on day one???

drummstikk

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #104 on: August 27, 2010, 03:53:43 PM »
What I was expecting was an up-graded EOS 50D with an 18mp sensor and video selling for $1,300.00 at the release.

OK, I'm with you so far. . .

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is NOT what I want or need.

But. . . but. . . the 7D IS an "upgraded 50D with an 18mp sensor and video." You're chomping at the bit to spend $1300.00, but you absolutely can't come up with that last $235.00 for a 7D (current B&H price is $1535.00)?

I don't see how your mythical "upgraded 50D" has any real differentiation from the 7D. Canon is a business, and we who work (or "play") with their cameras and lenses need them to stay healthy as a business. For months people have been dreaming of a camera pretty much identical to 7D except for the price tag. That's just not realistic.

If you ask me, the 60D looks like a pretty good value for $1099.00. It pretty evenly splits the gap in features AND price between T2i and 7D, which makes perfect sense in the ongoing development of the Canon line. The biggest problem (and here I return to my earlier point about stupid marketing on Canon's part) is that this camera is NOT the next logical progression in the xxD line. It's a departure in design and it's name should have reflected that.

Everybody is angry because it's called "60D" but it's not designed like the next camera in line after the 50D should be. That anger is understandable. If Canon had given the camera a different name, we'd all be looking at it as a new camera in a new niche. But no, Canon named it like a fine Italian entree, but it actually looks more like a frozen pizza. No wonder people are ticked off.
"Focused. Or focused not. There is no 'almost.'"

                                                          --Yoda (paraphrase)

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #104 on: August 27, 2010, 03:53:43 PM »