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Author Topic: Canon Announces EOS 60D  (Read 62262 times)

Rocky

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #120 on: August 28, 2010, 08:32:15 PM »
If canon call the 60D by any other name rather than 60D (X0D), then most of us will be happy except wanting  a real 60D.The only thing I will like to see on the 60D is the addition of the microadjustment.  I just cannot see why some people make a big deal on the switch to SD from AF. SD is smaller lighter, sometimes even cheaper than the CF. As for plastic body. It is really depends on the design and the material.  I know the Rebel body does not give me a solid feel. But every Nikon DSLR feels solid in  my hand. And Nikon have been making plastic DSLR for a long time and nobody has really complain about them. So  let us email Canon  and urge them to add the microadjustment  on 60D. From a price point, another $200 to$300 get you s super rebel (60D), with flip screen, penta prism, a few high end feature ( except the microadjustment) from the 7D and a much better ergonomic body,. It sound like a reasonable deal to me.

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #120 on: August 28, 2010, 08:32:15 PM »

gkreis

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #121 on: August 28, 2010, 09:12:57 PM »
60D samples photos look great at both low ISO and high ISO.
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos60d/

Noise does seem to be much less than 50D.
Looks like a winner to me if Nikon cannot match the video quality.
The target customers seem to be those who want better build than lower range canon SLRs like XTi...T2i and want to carry only one camera for photo and video. Missing magnesium and weather sealing does not seem to be an issue for this target group...they would take care of the cameras with the cameras covered with plastic bags.. :) or pop out a point and shoot covered in plastic bag.
So there should be many buyers for this camera.

It can be really competitive if Canon can improve their kit lens like Nikon.

I noticed the shots were all ISO 100 except for the 3200.  I'd like for them to show some 800 and 1600 shots as well.  The 3200 was pretty noisy and soft and that was jpg, which presumably had some noise reduction applied in the camera.

I like to see the RAW shots so we can see what we are up against for editing. Showing jpgs all the time is of no value to me, I don't shoot it.  I will say that the jpgs are generally very well processed by the camera, but the control you lose is not worth the convenience.

I will say the video looks great. Any noisy is smeared by the movement, so it is not noticeable. That medium seems to be more forgiving. While the video looks great, it is also a bit of wishful thinking for a consumer. It took of work to get those results.  But it was neat how they showed the lenses used for each segment of the video.

I am waiting to see what makes it into the final firmware and how the reviews turn up (some post RAW shots, but I'll also need to my RAW processor updated for it, so... another delay for the decision.)

I bet Canon sells a lot of the 60Ds if for no other reason than the articulated screen.

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #122 on: August 29, 2010, 12:00:53 AM »

That's a good point.
Could just anyone explain, why cf is preferred about sd? afaik has cf a lot less (as defined in the standard) than sd and an very similar speed and capacity at an often enough higher price (in germany).
The next thing I wonder about: Why exactly metal-body? If you drop your cam, your least problem in regular is a scratch in the body. rather lens or bajonett might brake - and here it don't matters what material the body is made of.

The only person I can speak for is myself, I really don't why other dislike the switch from CF to SD.

The reason I don't like the switch to SD is that no professional camera uses SD cards. My 40D uses CF cards, the 1Ds II uses CF cards, the Pro Nikons (D300s, D3s and D3x) use CF cards, Hasselblad  use CF cards, Phase One uses CF cards, Leaf Digital Backs use CF cards and Sinar Digital Backs us CF cards. I own a bunch of SanDisk Extreme iV CF cards that fit what I own and also any other professional camera I rent. I don't buy my memory cards from discounters and really don't care about cheap off brand SD cards.

I don't own a P&S camera or anything else that uses SD cards. Why would I want to buy a camera that uses SD cards.

You could tell this was coming when the flagship Canon 1Ds III had a CF Card Type I and II,  and SD/SDHC Memory Cards (1 slot each), while Nikon D3 has two CF slots.

Your milage probably does vary.

DVSdan

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #123 on: August 29, 2010, 03:39:12 AM »
The only person I can speak for is myself, I really don't why other like the switch from CF to SD.

Fixed it for ya ;)

dilbert

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #124 on: August 29, 2010, 07:03:52 AM »

That's a good point.
Could just anyone explain, why cf is preferred about sd? afaik has cf a lot less (as defined in the standard) than sd and an very similar speed and capacity at an often enough higher price (in germany).
The next thing I wonder about: Why exactly metal-body? If you drop your cam, your least problem in regular is a scratch in the body. rather lens or bajonett might brake - and here it don't matters what material the body is made of.

The only person I can speak for is myself, I really don't why other dislike the switch from CF to SD.

The reason I don't like the switch to SD is that no professional camera uses SD cards. My 40D uses CF cards, the 1Ds II uses CF cards, the Pro Nikons (D300s, D3s and D3x) use CF cards, Hasselblad  use CF cards, Phase One uses CF cards, Leaf Digital Backs use CF cards and Sinar Digital Backs us CF cards. I own a bunch of SanDisk Extreme iV CF cards that fit what I own and also any other professional camera I rent. I don't buy my memory cards from discounters and really don't care about cheap off brand SD cards.

I don't own a P&S camera or anything else that uses SD cards. Why would I want to buy a camera that uses SD cards.

You could tell this was coming when the flagship Canon 1Ds III had a CF Card Type I and II,  and SD/SDHC Memory Cards (1 slot each), while Nikon D3 has two CF slots.

You've arrived at your conclusion the wrong way. If you think of the 60D as being something for xxxD and compact camera owners to upgrade to, then it makes sense to support their cards.

I think we all need to stop thinking of the 60D as a 50D upgrade and think of it as the next step up for cheaper cameras. Upgrading from or just replacing a 50D means purchasing a 7D, not a 60D.

Sooner or later CF cards will no longer be supported in high end digital cameras as they all move to support CFast:
http://www.compactflash.org/080414_evolution_of_the_compactflash_interface.pdf

... so don't get too attached to those CF cards.

dilbert

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #125 on: August 29, 2010, 10:57:00 AM »
For those that wonder about the strength of the non-magnesium alloy body DSLRs:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1tTBncIsm8&feature=player_embedded
400D vs D70

CameraAddict

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #126 on: August 29, 2010, 12:02:42 PM »

You've arrived at your conclusion the wrong way. If you think of the 60D as being something for xxxD and compact camera owners to upgrade to, then it makes sense to support their cards.

I think we all need to stop thinking of the 60D as a 50D upgrade and think of it as the next step up for cheaper cameras. Upgrading from or just replacing a 50D means purchasing a 7D, not a 60D.


Canon could have made that "thought process" and the "conclusion" much easier by admitting they've dumped the 60D line.  50D users were expecting an upgrade to their camera, not to the Rebel.  That wasn't a crazy expectation was it?  If Canon had renamed the camera, announced the end of the 50D line, that would be it.  I only hope that this new 60D direction doesn't devalue our cameras further if we ever try and sell them. 

I've had 2 SD cards fail on me.  I've also had one lose its write protect tab so it's bricked.  SD cards aren't very durable.  I have compact flash that I've had literally since the year 2000 and it's still going strong...

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #126 on: August 29, 2010, 12:02:42 PM »

c.d.embrey

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #127 on: August 29, 2010, 02:59:33 PM »

You've arrived at your conclusion the wrong way. If you think of the 60D as being something for xxxD and compact camera owners to upgrade to, then it makes sense to support their cards.

Canon reached the wrong conclusion when they called the camera a 60D. All they have done is confuse and enrage owners of xxD cameras. Really bad marketing!

Quote
I think we all need to stop thinking of the 60D as a 50D upgrade and think of it as the next step up for cheaper cameras. Upgrading from or just replacing a 50D means purchasing a 7D, not a 60D.

Or maybe switching brands. Like upgrading to a Nikon or Sony camera. These two companies seem to be moving faster up the technology ladder than Canon.

Quote
Sooner or later CF cards will no longer be supported in high end digital cameras as they all move to support CFast:
http://www.compactflash.org/080414_evolution_of_the_compactflash_interface.pdf

... so don't get too attached to those CF cards.

CF isn't dead yet, check-out the press release from CFA on the new CF5.0 spec.  http://www.compactflash.org/pr/100222cf5prs.pdf

jakkul

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #128 on: August 29, 2010, 05:07:15 PM »
Sorry to interrupt you, but I need to let of steam...

At first when I saw what I was waiting for to replace my 350d, I wanted to kill myself for the time I wasted looking at CR every day for the past 2 months.

But looking back, it's not that bad. I can see why canon did that - 60d is a 550d-PLUS not 7d-MINUS. When you'd go to a supermarket and look at the cameras there, it's overloaded with Sony SLRs - I can't even count the models. If you'd see canons, you'd get the 1000d, 550d and 50d somewhere behind glass as a model only for PROs. The 60d is more like "I'm not that sophisticated", "give me additional $" and stuff and is a great tool for sales people to push it. 50d was not like that. So someone wanting just a photo camera can choose from 3 models not 2. Imho canon is trying to fight Sony with product range. If this is their marketing strategy, we'd see more bodies within price range between 1000d and 550d within this year.

I see that some of you are in rage because you wanted to upgrade your XXD's to 60D. Well, Canon wants to have your $ in the 7d. 60d is for supermarket shoppers that purchase stuff on impulse and not for people playing around with their cameras. I think that Sony's SLR range is also targeted at them. Most of SLR buyers do not dig around in the internet before they choose one thing over another - they want a slr, they go to a shop and get advice from salespeople.

I like the size of it - it's bigger than 350d, but smaller than 50d/7d. So I guess it's about the same as nikon d90 :). I don't mind plastic body, lack of insulation and stuff. I have the 350d for about 5 years and it did not die after shooting about 40k shots.

I don't think I'll buy that for one reason - you have to go deep into menus to change WB. You cannot press a button and turn a dial like in 50d/7d. I see why is that - most people always use automatic WB, and canon did their research to find that out. Same thing happens with all sony SLRs. You need to dig up in menus to tweek stuff - only the old A700 and FF models do it properly.

So maybe canon is going the same way: XD models for people that are interested in photography and want to control the picture and the rest are to be sold in supermarkets.

If the successor of nikon d90 will be just a better d90 not a different camera, I'm ready to switch and sell my canon lenses and flash.

All in all it does not matter. You can make as great photos with a 550d, 60d, 7d or an old film canon slr.

PS. Did anyone have had it in your hands already? I've read on dpreview, that using custom functions you actually can link WB setting to the SET button. Is that true? How does it work?

PS2. I'm going to IBC next week. Canon always has their stand there with the TV studio cameras they make. I'll look for the 60d to play with it. They always have some photo equipment around.

dilbert

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #129 on: August 29, 2010, 06:16:27 PM »
I think we all need to stop thinking of the 60D as a 50D upgrade and think of it as the next step up for cheaper cameras. Upgrading from or just replacing a 50D means purchasing a 7D, not a 60D.

Or maybe switching brands. Like upgrading to a Nikon or Sony camera. These two companies seem to be moving faster up the technology ladder than Canon.

What do I need a camera to do? Focus a lens, open its shutter and capture light.

I too used to worry about the features of Canon vs Nikon but then I realised what I wanted the camera to do and that the easier it made it for me to do the basics, the easier it was for me. Canon might not have had (or still not have) as many features, but if pro's are willing to pay $10k+ for cameras that do movements and three times that just for a back but don't have all of these fancy features like 51 AF points, etc, then how important are "features"?

Quote
Quote
Sooner or later CF cards will no longer be supported in high end digital cameras as they all move to support CFast:
http://www.compactflash.org/080414_evolution_of_the_compactflash_interface.pdf

... so don't get too attached to those CF cards.

CF isn't dead yet, check-out the press release from CFA on the new CF5.0 spec.  http://www.compactflash.org/pr/100222cf5prs.pdf

Lets see, on the one hand you're upset that Canon doesn't have enough new technology like Nikon/Sony does but on the other hand, you're ... I don't know, trying to cheer on an old technology that should be put out to pasture?

ronderick

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #130 on: August 29, 2010, 11:13:36 PM »
Canon held a press conference in Japan for their new products on August 26.

Here's something from the press conference:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/dcw/docs/389/589/html/004.jpg.html

Full article at dc.watch:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100827_389589.html

Basically, Canon's rep noted that the 60D is aimed at people who belongs to the upper-end of the entry market and the lower end of the prosumer market. It is an attempt at stimulating the fastest growing section of their sales, especially those who are thinking seriously about making photography as their hobby.
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ELK

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #131 on: August 30, 2010, 01:40:15 AM »
PS. Did anyone have had it in your hands already? I've read on dpreview, that using custom functions you actually can link WB setting to the SET button. Is that true? How does it work?

I didn't play with 60D but the approach for assigning a feature to SET button is always the same - from Customs features (for 60D it's C.Fn.IV-2) choose white balance. That's all. Each time when in shooting mode you press SET and change WB.

gkreis

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2010, 01:59:57 AM »
I've had 2 SD cards fail on me.  I've also had one lose its write protect tab so it's bricked.  SD cards aren't very durable.  I have compact flash that I've had literally since the year 2000 and it's still going strong...

+1  I had an SD card split apart and the write protect tab fell out.

Never had a CF fail. They are much stronger physically.

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #132 on: August 30, 2010, 01:59:57 AM »

dilbert

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #133 on: August 30, 2010, 05:10:29 AM »

You've arrived at your conclusion the wrong way. If you think of the 60D as being something for xxxD and compact camera owners to upgrade to, then it makes sense to support their cards.

I think we all need to stop thinking of the 60D as a 50D upgrade and think of it as the next step up for cheaper cameras. Upgrading from or just replacing a 50D means purchasing a 7D, not a 60D.


Canon could have made that "thought process" and the "conclusion" much easier by admitting they've dumped the 60D line.  50D users were expecting an upgrade to their camera, not to the Rebel.  That wasn't a crazy expectation was it?

If you think back to all of the discussion about what the 60D might be before it was released, there was a lot of consternation because people could not see how it could fit in between the 550D and 7D.

I suspect that the seeds of the dissatisfaction now present were sown then because if you thought about it hard enough then it was going to be obvious that the successor to the 50D could never be what people were expecting.

So yes, I think it was crazy to expect the 60D to come out looking like an upgraded 50D because it would have been too close to the 7D. I think in the back of our minds, we knew that but we just didn't want to admit it.

Canon is under no obligation to provide people with the upgrade that they expect.

Quote
If Canon had renamed the camera, announced the end of the 50D line, that would be it.  I only hope that this new 60D direction doesn't devalue our cameras further if we ever try and sell them. 

Huh? On the one hand you want feature upgrades so that you don't feel like another brand is better but on the other, you don't want newer cameras to improve too much because they might make yours look old. That doesn't make sense, especially when Canon's competitors will be doing their best to make you feel like all of your Canon equipment is now worthless and that you have to buy theirs instead.

Quote
I've had 2 SD cards fail on me.  I've also had one lose its write protect tab so it's bricked.  SD cards aren't very durable.  I have compact flash that I've had literally since the year 2000 and it's still going strong...

I'm surprised you're still using a CF card from 2000. The ones I've got one from 2003 are too small AND too slow to use now. Heck, even some of the cards I bought less than 5 years ago are too slow to use now.

I've thrown out one CF card reader because it corrupted images on transfer and two because the pins got bent/broken.

Jon Gilchrist

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2010, 09:54:06 AM »

CF isn't dead yet, check-out the press release from CFA on the new CF5.0 spec.  http://www.compactflash.org/pr/100222cf5prs.pdf

It may not be dead, but the CF5.0 ("CFast") will require completely new cards, cameras and readers.  They are not interchangeable.   The switch to CF5.0 is no different from the switch to SD from the standpoint of new equipment requirements.

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Re: Canon Announces EOS 60D
« Reply #134 on: August 30, 2010, 09:54:06 AM »