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Author Topic: Black Rapid and dropped camera?  (Read 17507 times)

bycostello

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2013, 09:10:25 PM »
strap will never break just watch the screw in bits

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #45 on: January 07, 2013, 09:10:25 PM »

Halfrack

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #46 on: January 07, 2013, 09:28:21 PM »
Take a look at CarrySpeed, I have one and it allows for two point connection (camera and lens collar) for larger lenses as well as an
arca swiss mounting plate with a folding connection which allows my camera to sit flat. I have a gripped 7D with a 70-200 2.8 IS and
have 100% confidence in the entire system. I use the FS-PRO system and find it to be incredibly comfortable especially over long periods.
They claim to be the most advanced sling system in the world and I'm inclined to agree! Too many great features to list, check them out
at carryspeed.com. I've never used a BlackRapid but I did a ton of research on straps and even got in touch with Tim Xu at CarrySpeed
who sent me one before the FS-Pro was available to the public!

You're ignoring the best part of the CarrySpeed F1 plate - the built in Arca Swiss plate!

Then again I cheat - I use the F1 plate with the SpiderHolster system, not their SpiderPro Plate.
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nonac

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #47 on: January 07, 2013, 09:56:17 PM »
Thanks.  So, basically, unless you loc-tite the BR nut to the QR clamp, you still run a risk of it unscrewing?

Not sure - if you slightly moisten the rubber compression washer and screw the lug in tight (with the solid aluminum, no risk of overtightening), probably not. But I see no reason to remove it routinely, so why not use Loctite? The Blue 242 type is semi-permanent - it's not going to come loose with normal use, but with a vice and a pair of pliers you can unscrew the lug.

Adding the Kirk1 clamp seems like a reasonable idea, but it just seems to be adding another point of possible failure.  I would think the BR screw in post with the rubber ring would stay tighter than a clamp.  Has no one ever had the clamp work its way loose?

I disagree.  With the Loctite, I wouldn't classify the lug-clamp connection as a failure point, so you're certainly not adding one. Moreover, if you frequently unscrew and reconnect the lug (which you'd do to attach to a tripod, for example), that makes the lug connection a much more likely failure point. There's no rotational stress on the clamp screw, so it won't come unscrewed unless you turn it. Orientation prevents unintentional turning - on a body plate, attach the clamp so the knob is under the lens, on a lens plate, attach it so the knob is away from your body. I've never had the clamps loosen even a smidgen.  So, overall, I'd say the BR lug attached to an AS-type clamp (the Kirk or RRS' new flat-bottom clamp) with Loctite, connected to AS-type body/lens plates, is both more convenient and more secure than directly attaching the lug to a tripod socket.

More convenient yes, MORE secure, no.  I agree with C. Burch, you are adding another potential failure point, period.
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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #48 on: January 07, 2013, 10:21:15 PM »
If you're looking for alternatives to BR, check out the Bos Strap. It attaches to the usual neck strap connector, except only on one side. It is very sturdy and they claim the neck strap lug can hold 150lbs.
The Bos Strap is also about half the price of the BR.
I really really wanted to just buy the BR and not worry about it, but I couldn't get the idea of the screw coming unscrewed out of my mind. I feel like when i'm walking I would constantly be checking to make sure the camera didn't spin and loosen from the screw connector. Additionally, the tripod mount is not how the camera manufacturers intended for their cameras to be held, thus it is not made to support the full load of a camera and heavy lens upside down(at least from an initial design perspective.)
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pwp

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #49 on: January 07, 2013, 10:42:57 PM »
The failures that I have read about relate to failure of the tripod socket itself on the camera body.  I have no idea how the tripod socket is attached inside the camera body?  It may vary by manufacturer and some may be more prone to failure than others.  I won't risk that. I have a BR strap; however, I only use it on a lens plate, never attached to the camera body.

That must have been a Sony :)  I've never heard that one. I suppose you could take it to the next level and start worrying about your lens mount...

That was me...the thread on my 5D grip just popped straight out when I over tightened a http://www.spiderholster.com/single-camera-system.html SpiderPro  plate onto it. Their instruction video says to tighten up "very tight". I'm not Mr Muscles but did give it my best. With a heavier lens with a collar I'd be screwing into the thread on the collar. That said, I am a heavy user of the SpiderPro system and use the dual camera system http://www.spiderholster.com/dual-camera-system.html . I can run with this setup...great for track & field athletics meets! I have a wide on one body, 70-200 on another and the 300 f/2.8is on a monopod.
-PW

That is a bit disconcerting. I have a 7D and a 5Dmkll and had assumed the tripod socket was mechanically connected to the magnesium alloy skeleton :P

That may be the case with the thread in the body itself, but my 5D incident was while screwing into the grip. I now know the thread is a separate part with it's own Canon part number. The repair was going to be more than a Meike grip so I went with the Meike and trashed the original 5D grip.

-PW

neuroanatomist

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #50 on: January 07, 2013, 10:46:27 PM »
More convenient yes, MORE secure, no.  I agree with C. Burch, you are adding another potential failure point, period.

So, a single threaded attachment that is frequently unscrewed and rescrewed and subjected to torsional stress during use is going to be more stable than a threaded attachment with threadlocking applied plus a clamping screw that's not subjected to unintentional torsional stress?  Sorry, no.  Yes, in theory, two connection points vs. one means two possible failure points rather than one.  If you were doing a 350' free rappel (I've done one), would you prefer to hang from a single loosely tied knot, or a pair of 8,000-lb-rated carabiners connected in series?  The latter has two possible failure points vs. just one - it must be less safe, right?

I can tell you that I spent over a year with the single lug connection, first as a FastenR-2 then FastenR-3 connected to a tripod socket, then with a FastenR-T1 connected through a Manfrotto RC2 plate.  I would frequently find the FastenR slightly loose - probably at least once per week.  It never loosened sufficiently for the camera to fall - but that's because I quickly got in the habit of checking the tightness of the lug several times a day.  In over a year with the FastenR-3 Loctite'd to a Kirk clamp attached to a body or lens plate, I have never had anything come even slightly loose.  I know which sounds more failure-prone to me, and I'm not a fan of letting untested theory outweigh empirical fact.
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Radiating

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2013, 11:23:40 PM »
All this talk of failure points reminds me of why I like the optech strap so much.

There is no failure point. There is nothing to unscrew. The camera hangs down from the strap mount, and the nylon webbing holding it takes a set of pliars and some careful threading to just instal it's so thick.



The camera will disinterate before these ever come loose.

Yes yes the oversized quick release clips can theoretically come loose if you press them the wrong way (I only use 1 clip for the sling so the body hangs better), but it is very unlikley that the quick release would come loose as you have to press both sides fairly hard to release it. You can also easily switch from the camera hanging down from the left or right side of the body, which is very useful as the black rapid strap gets fussy when shooting in portrait orientation.

Also there's nothing stopping you from installing dual quick release clips (4 total) which would never come loose in a million years.

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #51 on: January 07, 2013, 11:23:40 PM »

Renegade Runner

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #52 on: January 08, 2013, 12:27:22 AM »
A wonderful product.  Used mine attached to the tripod plate.  Carried camera with 70-300 L attached for 6+ hours.
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nonac

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #53 on: January 08, 2013, 06:22:26 PM »
More convenient yes, MORE secure, no.  I agree with C. Burch, you are adding another potential failure point, period.

So, a single threaded attachment that is frequently unscrewed and rescrewed and subjected to torsional stress during use is going to be more stable than a threaded attachment with threadlocking applied plus a clamping screw that's not subjected to unintentional torsional stress?  Sorry, no.  Yes, in theory, two connection points vs. one means two possible failure points rather than one.  If you were doing a 350' free rappel (I've done one), would you prefer to hang from a single loosely tied knot, or a pair of 8,000-lb-rated carabiners connected in series?  The latter has two possible failure points vs. just one - it must be less safe, right?

I can tell you that I spent over a year with the single lug connection, first as a FastenR-2 then FastenR-3 connected to a tripod socket, then with a FastenR-T1 connected through a Manfrotto RC2 plate.  I would frequently find the FastenR slightly loose - probably at least once per week.  It never loosened sufficiently for the camera to fall - but that's because I quickly got in the habit of checking the tightness of the lug several times a day.  In over a year with the FastenR-3 Loctite'd to a Kirk clamp attached to a body or lens plate, I have never had anything come even slightly loose.  I know which sounds more failure-prone to me, and I'm not a fan of letting untested theory outweigh empirical fact.

Sorry, I forgot that I was replying to the person that knows everything about everything. 
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #54 on: January 08, 2013, 10:56:15 PM »
More convenient yes, MORE secure, no.  I agree with C. Burch, you are adding another potential failure point, period.

So, a single threaded attachment that is frequently unscrewed and rescrewed and subjected to torsional stress during use is going to be more stable than a threaded attachment with threadlocking applied plus a clamping screw that's not subjected to unintentional torsional stress?  Sorry, no.  Yes, in theory, two connection points vs. one means two possible failure points rather than one.  If you were doing a 350' free rappel (I've done one), would you prefer to hang from a single loosely tied knot, or a pair of 8,000-lb-rated carabiners connected in series?  The latter has two possible failure points vs. just one - it must be less safe, right?

I can tell you that I spent over a year with the single lug connection, first as a FastenR-2 then FastenR-3 connected to a tripod socket, then with a FastenR-T1 connected through a Manfrotto RC2 plate.  I would frequently find the FastenR slightly loose - probably at least once per week.  It never loosened sufficiently for the camera to fall - but that's because I quickly got in the habit of checking the tightness of the lug several times a day.  In over a year with the FastenR-3 Loctite'd to a Kirk clamp attached to a body or lens plate, I have never had anything come even slightly loose.  I know which sounds more failure-prone to me, and I'm not a fan of letting untested theory outweigh empirical fact.

Sorry, I forgot that I was replying to the person that knows everything about everything.

Never claimed that.  But I do claim direct, personal, empirical experience with the products I discussed - as I stated, over a year with each, a few hundred cumulative hours per year.  On what experience are you basing your statement that the lug+clamp setup is less secure than just the lug?  Please share...
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 11:02:57 PM by neuroanatomist »
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sagittariansrock

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #55 on: January 10, 2013, 02:00:09 AM »
I think Neuro's system (the same thing as the video posted) will be quite safe- but I cannot discount that the Kirk clamp will not get inadvertently unscrewed (in my case- I have worse luck that more people).
Couple of years back I really wanted to use a wrist strap and the tripod mounts on these things aren't something a sane person would risk his gear on. So using BR on the camera was out of the question.
Here's what I use:
I have the Optech shoulder strap with the two sliding clips and a BR carabiner on it. The first sliding clip connects to the left camera mount, the second to the loop on the bottom plate of the wrist strap. So I can allocate the right connector on the camera to the wrist strap and still have the camera hanging safely. This makes the camera hang with the lens pointing downwards instead of backwards (a la BR) that has two advantages- the lens lines up with my leg instead of sticking backwards and potentially getting bumped, and my wrist strap is in the right place for me to put my fingers through (instead of having to twist my wrist backwards).
When I switch to my 70-200, I simply disconnect the right Optech sliding clip, and connect the BR FastenR-T1 permanently mounted on my 70-200 collar to the BR carabiner (you have to unstitch the strap, put the carabiner in and stitch it back, but it's fairly easy). This way, the camera is still connected to the strap by the Optech clip as a second line of protection.
A photograph would have been better than all this description, but for some reason I cannot upload any pictures to the CR site.

(Of course, it might be easier to connect the wrist strap to the eye on the bracket and use Kirk/RRS clamps on the FastenR to connect the L-bracket or a lens plate- but that costs $ 255 more at least. And I'd still use the Optech safety strap)
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 02:01:47 AM by sagittariansrock »
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Chris Burch

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #56 on: January 10, 2013, 02:15:53 AM »
One other thing I would add...

The BR screw mount can come somewhat loose without the camera falling off.  If the kirk plate comes loose at all, the camera will slide right out of it.  This worries me a lot. 

That said, I think I am still going to try it.  I already have the Op-tech straps on my cameras anyway so I can do the backup method mentioned in the video.  There is definitely an added convenience with using the clamps.
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2013, 08:37:24 AM »
The BR screw mount can come somewhat loose without the camera falling off.  If the kirk plate comes loose at all, the camera will slide right out of it.  This worries me a lot.

The thing is, since the BR lug when used directly has tortional stress that's not completely eliminated by the swivel on the carabiner.  So, once it comes loose, it can get looser and looser fairly quickly as the camera dangles.  The clamp screw has no tortional stress on it during use.

The Kirk 1" clamp screw has a fair bit of intrinsic resistance - if you brush against it, it doesn't turn, it really needs to be grabbed and twisted.  It takes a 1/4 (90°) turn to open it enough so the plate slides in the clamp.  Depending on the plate/bracket, you may have a pair of safety screws (e.g., the Wimberley P-5), although some have just one or none (my RRS 1D X L-plate has one - I don't use it).  When in place, the clamp screw is directly under the lens - unlikely to be accidentally turned.  Generally, lens plates will have two safety screws, and I do use those.  If you're using safety screws, it takes a full (360°) turn of the clamp screw to get the plate out - again, that's not going to happen by accident, IMO.

I'd not worry about it.  As I stated, over hundreds of hours of use with two setups and loads of up to 12 lbs, I've never had a clamp come even slightly loose.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2013, 08:40:58 AM by neuroanatomist »
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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #57 on: January 10, 2013, 08:37:24 AM »

Scarpz13

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #58 on: January 10, 2013, 03:37:25 PM »
Ok Newbie question here-
So I am about to order a blackrapid sport, and was wondering if I should also be ordering a kirk clamp/plate etc to use the lock tite method discussed here.
My question I guess is, how do I know which clamp and/or plate to order? B&H seems to have so many options... does it matter what my tripod connector plate at home is like (granted it's a non-prop $100 type one) that I barely use... or are the clamps usuable with many tripod mounts?

SOrry if this has been covered, haven't seen it here...
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neuroanatomist

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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2013, 04:18:41 PM »
does it matter what my tripod connector plate at home is like (granted it's a non-prop $100 type one) that I barely use... or are the clamps usuable with many tripod mounts?


You need a clamp that's compatible with your tripod quick release plate(s).  If that plate is an Arca-Swiss type (which are used with ballheads from Acratech, Arca-Swiss, Kirk, Markins, Really Right Stuff, and Wimberley, among others), then any Arca-Swiss type clamp would work.  In that case, I'd go with the Kirk QRC-1 or the RRS B2-FAB-F.  RRS gear is only available directly through them, Kirk distributes through B&H, Adorama, etc.

What sort of head do you have on your tripod?
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Re: Black Rapid and dropped camera?
« Reply #59 on: January 10, 2013, 04:18:41 PM »