TS-E lens

[RMC33]

So I just got contracted to do some exterior/interior photography work for a local outfit to fill out their portfolio (custom home builder). Most of these homes are on very steep (in the Lake Tahoe area) hills and after doing a preliminary walk around a few properties I noticed that my fisheye will not fit this job very well for the exterior shots like it has in the past.

I have never used a TS-E lens and was wondering if anyone could offer some advice on if this would be a prudent investment or a few online tutorials. I have searched around online and had little luck with finding anything tutorial related.

Thanks!

[agierke]

 the 24mm TS is an absolute must have for architecture. the 45mm TS can come in very handy if distance from the subject is a bit tricky. have not yet used the 17mm TS but based on my own experience with tighter interiors i am jonesin to add that lens to my bag as the 24mm sometimes just isn't wide enough.

[RMC33]

I have an 8-15 Fisheye that I use for interiors with PT GUI and some CAD Plugins to construct 3D tours. It is a bit of a process but about 90% automated now on the software side. The distances on the outside are the issue, most of the homes are on a 45deg slope and I will be between 10-40 ft away (taking hill angle into account). I will have access to a Lift to get me in the center of the vertical rise for about 80% of the shots. The other ones are my biggest concern as I will have to shoot from anywhere between 5-15 feet below the base of the foundation.

[tolusina]

A couple tutorials...
 
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/tilt_and_shift_ts-e.html
 
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/focus-with-tilt.html

[jonathan7007]

The pole idea is interesting for a tricky vantage point such as you describe. What are the expectations of the client, though? Is the style of the requested images supported (no pun intended) by this? The 17TSE is great and has a lot of shift. It will be super to have it for interiors. It creates a elegant architectural-photography-style images. Sharp. Expensive and requires care in handling with its big glass hemisphere. They show up used.

I have a 17TSE and love it. I went with 17mm instead of 24 so I would not be limited. You have to be a bit careful with size and shape distortions (mostly nearby objects -- interiors) because some clients who find them too strange. I was used to view camera work and have had TSE lenses since the seventies when Canon first intro'd the 35mm TSE on FD mount. Tilt used less often than shift.

HTH

jonathan7007

[RMC33]

Thanks for all the input!

On the pole front. I think this is where I will be going. It offers what I need to overcome some of the hills!

Jonathan,

I use a 8-15 fisheye for all my interior with PT GUI and some specialized Auto CAD plugins to, as another poster put, Defish the images and create my interior shots in a tour type fashion. What the client wants are 12x18 photos of the outside and a "tour" like described above of the outside as well. While most of the time I can achieve this with a Fisheye but the incline I will be working on will be difficult to keep that "Non-distorted" image that I need to make my tour hence the question about a TS-E. I am considering a 24 as my distances are in excess of 10ft and I need to keep a decent amount of resolution.

[paul13walnut5]

Sounds like a TS-E is the way to go, what body are you using?  You want to be full frame, if it's stills only then a used 5D classic would be a good starting point, if you aren't FF already.

There are a few hire places around, why not hire to try before you buy?

That way you can get used to the idiosycricities of TS-E lenses (over-shifting can bring in fringing and vignetting, fall off) before deciding to commit to a hefty purchase if it isn't going to be for you. 

If you hire from Calumet I think they have a policy of refunding the hire against the purchase cost of the lens, worth looking into at least.

[SJTstudios]

If you really need the lens on a regular basis, get the 17mm, you wound regret it.

If you need a 24 ts, look at the rokinon.

But, if it isn't your regular shoot, and its only a little bit, I bet a local photography store would be willing to rent you one.

[scrappydog]

As others have stated, the TS-Es are the way to go with this gig.  I would think the 17 and 24 II would be the best options for you, but you would be the best person to determine the focal lengths needed for the job. 

If you think you would do more architecture work, I think they would be prudent investments for you.  If you buy clean used copies, you will probably not lose much money if you choose to sell them.  The TS-Es are unique and that is their cache -- they can do stuff your other lenses cannot.

Re: online tutorials, here is a link for one on the Luminous Landscape: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/focusing-ts.shtml.  I have seen others on YouTube and other sites.

The short explanation:  Make sure your tripod is perfectly level.  With the lens in center position, meter your camera.  Next, using LiveView, focus for a far distance at 10x.  Look in the foreground and adjust the tilt, if needed, to get the foreground focus correct.  Then look to the distance again and adjust accordingly, followed by a review of the foreground again.  This back and forth can be a pain, but it ensures that everything is sharp.  The TS-Es are sharp from f/3.5 to f/8, which precludes diffraction.  If done right, it will be sharp edge-to-edge.  You do not need to crank down the aperture to get everything sharp.

A few tips: The 24 takes 82mm filters.  The 17 is bulbous, so you cannot put a filter on it.  However, there is a hack posted on the Fred Miranda forum about how to rig the Lee ND system to the 17 so that you can use ND grads.  Google it if interested.  The constant LiveView work requires patience and batteries -- make sure you have spares of both. 

Check out my Flickr page.  I have a Tilt Shift set.  I also explain pros-cons of the 17 and 24.

[RMC33]

For real estate work the 17 really is the tool to get, don't forget it works very well with a 1.4 TC so still gives you a high quality 24mm when you don't need the width. It also works well with good IQ and a 2x TC, giving an effective 34mm.

What I am saying is the 17 covers three very useful focal lengths, the 24, especially for interiors, is often too long to begin with.

I was not aware the 17 could be used with extenders. Thanks! Like in earlier posts I use a Fish for interiors with my RRS PG-02

Sounds like a TS-E is the way to go, what body are you using?  You want to be full frame, if it's stills only then a used 5D classic would be a good starting point, if you aren't FF already.

There are a few hire places around, why not hire to try before you buy?

That way you can get used to the idiosycricities of TS-E lenses (over-shifting can bring in fringing and vignetting, fall off) before deciding to commit to a hefty purchase if it isn't going to be for you. 

If you hire from Calumet I think they have a policy of refunding the hire against the purchase cost of the lens, worth looking into at least.

I plan on renting before I buy. I will be using a 5dMk3 + RRS PG-02 for about 90% of this. There are a few places I will not be able to use the tripod and have to resort to the pole method.

As others have stated, the TS-Es are the way to go with this gig.  I would think the 17 and 24 II would be the best options for you, but you would be the best person to determine the focal lengths needed for the job. 

If you think you would do more architecture work, I think they would be prudent investments for you.  If you buy clean used copies, you will probably not lose much money if you choose to sell them.  The TS-Es are unique and that is their cache -- they can do stuff your other lenses cannot.

Re: online tutorials, here is a link for one on the Luminous Landscape: http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/focusing-ts.shtml.  I have seen others on YouTube and other sites.

The short explanation:  Make sure your tripod is perfectly level.  With the lens in center position, meter your camera.  Next, using LiveView, focus for a far distance at 10x.  Look in the foreground and adjust the tilt, if needed, to get the foreground focus correct.  Then look to the distance again and adjust accordingly, followed by a review of the foreground again.  This back and forth can be a pain, but it ensures that everything is sharp.  The TS-Es are sharp from f/3.5 to f/8, which precludes diffraction.  If done right, it will be sharp edge-to-edge.  You do not need to crank down the aperture to get everything sharp.

A few tips: The 24 takes 82mm filters.  The 17 is bulbous, so you cannot put a filter on it.  However, there is a hack posted on the Fred Miranda forum about how to rig the Lee ND system to the 17 so that you can use ND grads.  Google it if interested.  The constant LiveView work requires patience and batteries -- make sure you have spares of both. 

Check out my Flickr page.  I have a Tilt Shift set.  I also explain pros-cons of the 17 and 24.

Thanks for the info! I found that link you posted last night and have looked into it. Also the ND modification for the 17 is not a bad idea.

[Zlatko]

Good tutorials here ... Part 1:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/02/12/architectural-photography-primer-for-the-somewhat-uninitiated/
and Part II:
http://www.stevehuffphoto.com/2010/09/15/an-architectural-primer-part-ii-by-james-klotz/

[scrappydog]

A few tips: The 24 takes 82mm filters.  The 17 is bulbous, so you cannot put a filter on it.  However, there is a hack posted on the Fred Miranda forum about how to rig the Lee ND system to the 17 so that you can use ND grads.  Google it if interested.

Thanks for the info! I found that link you posted last night and have looked into it. Also the ND modification for the 17 is not a bad idea.

I don't know if you are still interested in the TS-E 17mm hack, but B&H just got a shipment of the Lee 82mm wide angle adapters.  The adapters are hard to come by. 
Link: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/87148-REG/LEE_Filters_WAR082_Adapter_Ring_82mm.html.

[neuroanatomist]

I don't know if you are still interested in the TS-E 17mm hack, but B&H just got a shipment of the Lee 82mm wide angle adapters.  The adapters are hard to come by. 

Thanks for the heads-up. Not sure how many they got in...but they now have one fewer available. 

[jhenderson0107]

I built a copy of the lens cap filter holder described on the Fred Miranda site for the TS-E 17.  Took a few hours for assembly and overnight for the epoxy which affixes the Lee ring to the cap to cure.  But, the result is well worth it.  I am now able to use the Lee filters on my TS-E 17, and all other lenses. 

Be sure to machine off the step on the inside of the Lee filter adapter before affixing to the cap.  This will increase the max shift by a few mm before vignetting.  A straight bearing bit on a router table will made short work of this.   

[scrappydog]

Thanks for the heads-up. Not sure how many they got in...but they now have one fewer available. 

Make that two fewer available.    I've been trying to find one for a while.