August 28, 2014, 01:25:01 AM

Author Topic: My (seemingly) never ending Focus woes ... BIF advice needed  (Read 10688 times)

bjd

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #30 on: January 13, 2013, 11:23:10 AM »
it seems like you forgot an IMPORTANT THING

pls review your manual at page 73 and page 77

61 point automatic selection AF both in A+ and AI Servo Modes

dont worry, there's nothing wrong with your 5D3, just wrong user settings. :)

we all experience it - one way or the other.
Wife says we can't afford a new user, so its up to me still.
My manual is in German so not totally certain what points you are referring to as the page numbers may be different.
I watched all three videos and read the book (EOS_5D_Mark_III_AF_setting_guidebook.pdf) again. With AI Servo AF with all 61 points used, it says "Shooting started by pinpointing focus on the leader of a cycling road race with a manually selected AF point". I'm still unclear on the "manually selected AF point", the large picture on page 53 shows 61 points in use.
Just testing getting the camera to focus on a stationary object indoors, it will do that with one of the outer points. Selecting the point or points it uses on its own.
When shooting BIF, usually pretty small ones in our garden, I find I need to anticipate a lot in which direction they will move, for example when taking off. So I will try to track them as much as possible, but I'm hoping for some assistance from the 61 points to get/keep the bird sharp as long as its under an AF point.   

Anyway thanks to everyone for the help and patience.
Cheers Brian




East Wind Photography

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #31 on: January 13, 2013, 11:30:46 AM »
You can go to usa.canon.com and download the English version of the manual for free.

it seems like you forgot an IMPORTANT THING

pls review your manual at page 73 and page 77

61 point automatic selection AF both in A+ and AI Servo Modes

dont worry, there's nothing wrong with your 5D3, just wrong user settings. :)

we all experience it - one way or the other.
Wife says we can't afford a new user, so its up to me still.
My manual is in German so not totally certain what points you are referring to as the page numbers may be different.
I watched all three videos and read the book (EOS_5D_Mark_III_AF_setting_guidebook.pdf) again. With AI Servo AF with all 61 points used, it says "Shooting started by pinpointing focus on the leader of a cycling road race with a manually selected AF point". I'm still unclear on the "manually selected AF point", the large picture on page 53 shows 61 points in use.
Just testing getting the camera to focus on a stationary object indoors, it will do that with one of the outer points. Selecting the point or points it uses on its own.
When shooting BIF, usually pretty small ones in our garden, I find I need to anticipate a lot in which direction they will move, for example when taking off. So I will try to track them as much as possible, but I'm hoping for some assistance from the 61 points to get/keep the bird sharp as long as its under an AF point.   

Anyway thanks to everyone for the help and patience.
Cheers Brian

neuroanatomist

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #32 on: January 13, 2013, 11:41:32 AM »
With AI Servo AF with all 61 points used, it says "Shooting started by pinpointing focus on the leader of a cycling road race with a manually selected AF point". I'm still unclear on the "manually selected AF point", the large picture on page 53 shows 61 points in use.

In Servo with 61-pt auto, use the multicontroller (joystick) to select an AF point before you start focusing (pressing AF-ON or shutter half-press).  The AF system will lock onto the subject at that selected point and track it (depending on your settings).
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Mr Bean

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #33 on: January 15, 2013, 06:54:13 PM »
When shooting BIF, usually pretty small ones in our garden, I find I need to anticipate a lot in which direction they will move, for example when taking off. So I will try to track them as much as possible, but I'm hoping for some assistance from the 61 points to get/keep the bird sharp as long as its under an AF point.   
I'm going through the same hoops and learning curves with BIF. I've only started playing with the 5D m3 with BIF over the past month and its been interesting :)

My first example of a BIF pic tracked beautifully, with the camera set to AI Servo Focus, I managed to track the background (just in front of the bird) successfully for at least 6 shots :)

I put it down to my over tracking to start with, meaning the camera "thought" I wanted to focus 2m in front. Oh well, at least it's not film ;)
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bjd

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #34 on: January 18, 2013, 03:44:14 PM »
You can go to usa.canon.com and download the English version of the manual for free.

it seems like you forgot an IMPORTANT THING

pls review your manual at page 73 and page 77

61 point automatic selection AF both in A+ and AI Servo Modes

dont worry, there's nothing wrong with your 5D3, just wrong user settings. :)

we all experience it - one way or the other.
That was a very good suggestion. Now I can immediately find the things you all were talking about in the manual. Still no real sucess though. I hope to get out tomorrow with the camera and try some more.
Cheers Brian


Dylan777

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #35 on: January 19, 2013, 11:25:58 AM »
With AI Servo AF with all 61 points used, it says "Shooting started by pinpointing focus on the leader of a cycling road race with a manually selected AF point". I'm still unclear on the "manually selected AF point", the large picture on page 53 shows 61 points in use.

In Servo with 61-pt auto, use the multicontroller (joystick) to select an AF point before you start focusing (pressing AF-ON or shutter half-press).  The AF system will lock onto the subject at that selected point and track it (depending on your settings).

+1....When my kids running around, I use 61-pt auto in servo very often.

You must lock-on the subject first and do not release that shutter until you ready take pictures.

To me, case 2-6 are like presets. Therefore, I'm using case1 and set it to my shooting style)

My setting: Case-1
1. Tracking Sen 0 (I only want the camera to track selected subject and ignore others)
2. Accel/Decel Tracking 1 (sometime to zero, since my 4yrs is not that super fast)
3. AF pt auto switching 1

It works everytime ;) 
« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 11:29:16 AM by Dylan777 »
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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #36 on: January 19, 2013, 12:06:47 PM »
When you get it right it is quite amazing.

with the full area selected for focusing, you then select were you want it to start. Then it focus on that area and follows it around, it is programed to notice faces and eyes.

Its quite outstandingly good.   8)
If you debate with a fool onlookers can find it VERY difficult to tell the difference.

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #37 on: January 19, 2013, 09:04:08 PM »
Hi ddl,
it looks suspiciously like that. But then I have to ask "what is the manually selected AF point?". In my case it always tries to select a focus point at the center and I cannot get it to focus using one of the outer points.
In A+ I can get it to focus using the rightmost column of points at 1/250th and F5.0, if I switch to M and set 1/250th and F5.6 then I can get the fourth row from the right to focus. I tried using evaluative metering too instead of spot, but that doesn't change anything.
Strange

Cheers

First of all, having the camera in M, Av, Tv or even P mode has nothing to do with AF.  Those modes deal with exposures.  You can set the focus point with any of those modes.  Secondly, in A+ modes, you are letting the camera do all the decisions for you, both the exposure and what to focus on.  The AF cases wasn't designed for that style of shooting, if you call that a style at all.

For shooting birds in flight (or divers), I suggest to change your Selectable AF point to only cross-type.  That is located on the 4th section of the AF tab menu.  Just know that if you do this, the camera will only allow the cross-type points available for the attached lens and is normally dictated by the lens' maximum aperture.  With this selected, change the way the AI Servo works.  Go to the 2nd section of the AF tab.  Set the AI Servo 1st image priority to focus.  Set the AI Servo 2nd image priority to focus.  Now you can play with the "AF cases" if you want.  I personally leave it on Case 1.  I don't see any practical difference in any of those "Cases."

As for the red dot/focus point flashing,  this is irrelevant on AI servo mode.  If you want to see where you are focusing, you can set the AF point display during focus on 5th section of the AF tab to Selected (pre-AF, focused).

Remember, none of these will do you any good if you're shooting on the green mode.

I did all that stuff.  It still doesn't work that well.  My cases aren't in good light; mine are in bad lighting.  I concede that I may be asking the camera to do something unreasonable.  Even with cross-type only points in AI Servo mode, even though the diver is closer to me than anything, down throughout the dive the AF point will still go back and hit the wall, for some unknown reason, at least twice.  The reason is because the wall is grayish/white and is lighted up more than the diver.  This will confuse any AF system.  To the OP, you have to pay attention to back-lighting too.

Good discussion so far.
I sometimes shoot golf with my friends, I got a tip from Bosman a couple of months ago to lock on the golfer and then switch to manual so the camera doesn't try to track the club or arms moving. This for your swim meet. I wouldn't dare to give you tips as you're a much more accomplished photographer, I'm more asking you if that would have been relevant in the swim meet? At least if you're shooting from the same spot. This is assuming you shot diving and not swimming.

bjd

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #38 on: January 20, 2013, 05:27:55 AM »
You can go to usa.canon.com and download the English version of the manual for free.

it seems like you forgot an IMPORTANT THING

pls review your manual at page 73 and page 77

61 point automatic selection AF both in A+ and AI Servo Modes

dont worry, there's nothing wrong with your 5D3, just wrong user settings. :)

we all experience it - one way or the other.
That was a very good suggestion. Now I can immediately find the things you all were talking about in the manual. Still no real sucess though. I hope to get out tomorrow with the camera and try some more.
Cheers Brian
Hi,
well I had far better results yesterday, despite pretty poor light. Still had a few shots I couldn't explain, 4 focus points on a slow moving car, but the car itself completely out of focus. But I even did get a shot of a flying duck in focus in pretty bad light, taken a bit by surprise too. Using 61 point auto-selection.
Never had the points on a bird in a sutuation like that up till now.
Cheers Brian

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bjd

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #39 on: January 20, 2013, 05:39:06 AM »
Hi,
well I had far better results yesterday, despite pretty poor light. Still had a few shots I couldn't explain, 4 focus points on a slow moving car, but the car itself completely out of focus. But I even did get a shot of a flying duck in focus in pretty bad light, taken a bit by surprise too. Using 61 point auto-selection.
Never had the points on a bird in a sutuation like that up till now.
Cheers Brian

70-200 F2.8L IS II USM at 200mm, F6.7, 1000th/Sec, ISO800.
And built this out of it. I guess my next Lens will be something with a 400 in it. 200mm doesn't go a long way.
Cheers Brian

« Last Edit: January 20, 2013, 05:41:56 AM by bjd »

jp121

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Re: My never ending Focus woes with my 5DMK3
« Reply #40 on: January 20, 2013, 11:31:59 AM »
Hobby Shooter,

try 'back button auto focus' for the golfer. It saves switching to manual every time. Back button AF takes AF away from the shutter button. You can hit the shutter button all day with no AF. To re-AF press the 'back button'.
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bjd

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Re: My (seemingly) never ending Focus woes.... BIF advice needed
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2013, 04:35:24 AM »
Hi,
I have much more of a grip on how thinks should work and in many cases I do get them to work that way.
Tracking small Birds and getting them in focus is still not what I had hoped for so I am systematically trying to work through that now. That in itself is difficult, how should one do anything systematically with the little critters?
So, much of this has been said before, but I would like to discuss the points according to my experience at this time. Please bear with me :-\

So, I tried a setup where the birds can only fly across the FOV left to right to land on a feeding spot. And back out the same way. Using a Zoom is almost impossible here as the birds spend too little time in the field of view, plus DOF is in most cases just too shallow. So I'm currently trying with my 16-35.

I'm also planning a setup where the birds will fly more into the Camera instead of across it at 90°.

In the above case its impossible to put a focus point on the bird manually, I'm too slow for it. So I guessed that using 61-Point auto-selection is the way to go. I cant use AI Focus as I cant focus beforehand on a still subject, AI Servo requires a manually selected AF point beforehand too. So So IMHO it looks like one way is to use AI Servo and  a single point pushed over to the left and hope that that achieves focus straight away.

Now to the background,  I have trouble that the camera likes to focus on the background. I tried various sheets, but they provided a perfect target and the camera took them everytime. Apart from a proper backdrop, any tips here to provide something the camera wont focus on?

Comments?

Cheers Brian