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Author Topic: Where are you EOS 70D?  (Read 25311 times)

RendrLab

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 12:47:52 AM »
I would rather be run over by a bus then believe that Canon would not improve on the 60D, especially after the 60Da. I saw that as a life-lengthener to the 60D, even if it's only real changes are the astrophotography adjustments.
Canon has lasted this long and I highly doubt that they are naïve enough to not know they better bring something better to the table for us 60D folks than just a few wallet warrior options. Sure, WiFi & GPS have there places in some peoples work/photography styles, but for those of us that didn't get the 60D at the current low pricing bought that camera because it was all-around better than the Rebel line of cameras (the swivel screen was just a bonus (for the most part anyway.)
With the T4i getting GPS and touchscreen and the 6D getting WiFi & GPS, I believe Canon is testing the waters to see what us lower-middle class (in range of cameras, not in actual income) DSLR buyers desire more, toys or IQ.
I honestly wouldn't care if the 70D, or whatever it's name will be, looked identical to the 60D as long as they improved on noise across the ISO range & maybe give it STM ability.
Also, if you happen to be listening Canon, please get rid of the frickin smooshy directional pad and let us have the joystick for AF!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 12:52:57 AM by RendrLab »

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2013, 12:47:52 AM »

wickidwombat

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2013, 12:52:56 AM »
I would rather be run over by a bus then believe that Canon would not improve on the 60D, especially after the 60Da. I saw that as a life-lengthener to the 60D, even if it's only real changes are the astrophotography adjustments.
Canon has lasted this long and I highly doubt that they are naïve enough to not know they better bring something better to the table for us 60D folks than just a few wallet warrior options. Sure, WiFi & GPS have there places in some peoples work/photography styles, but for those of us that didn't get the 60D at the current low pricing bought that camera because it was all-around better than the Rebel line of cameras (the swivel screen was just a bonus (for the most part anyway.)
With the T4i getting GPS and touchscreen and the 6D getting WiFi & GPS, I believe Canon is testing the waters to see what us lower-middle class (in range of cameras, not in actual income) DSLR buyers desire more, toys are IQ.
I honestly wouldn't care if the 70D, or whatever it's name will be, looked identical to the 60D as long as they improved on noise across the ISO range & maybe give it STM ability.

sorry but you might want to get hold of a bus timetable...

its going to be 6D AF... (or the same 9 point all cross type in the 60D which would be a good thing)
same ol 18 MP sensor (no you wont get any iso improvements)
same plastic body
same controls
swivel screen
GPS and Wifi
pop up flash
single SD card
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RendrLab

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #17 on: January 24, 2013, 12:56:54 AM »
I would rather be run over by a bus then believe that Canon would not improve on the 60D, especially after the 60Da. I saw that as a life-lengthener to the 60D, even if it's only real changes are the astrophotography adjustments.
Canon has lasted this long and I highly doubt that they are naïve enough to not know they better bring something better to the table for us 60D folks than just a few wallet warrior options. Sure, WiFi & GPS have there places in some peoples work/photography styles, but for those of us that didn't get the 60D at the current low pricing bought that camera because it was all-around better than the Rebel line of cameras (the swivel screen was just a bonus (for the most part anyway.)
With the T4i getting GPS and touchscreen and the 6D getting WiFi & GPS, I believe Canon is testing the waters to see what us lower-middle class (in range of cameras, not in actual income) DSLR buyers desire more, toys are IQ.
I honestly wouldn't care if the 70D, or whatever it's name will be, looked identical to the 60D as long as they improved on noise across the ISO range & maybe give it STM ability.

sorry but you might want to get hold of a bus timetable...

its going to be 6D AF... (or the same 9 point all cross type in the 60D which would be a good thing)
same ol 18 MP sensor (no you wont get any iso improvements)
same plastic body
same controls
swivel screen
GPS and Wifi
pop up flash
single SD card

Blasphemy I tell you...

jrista

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #18 on: January 24, 2013, 01:04:05 AM »
I think they're trying to get some sort of record for wringing the most profit from a sensor, over the longest lifespan

:D +1

Although, from a business perspective, I gotta hand it to Canon for actually achieving that. That IS kind of the holy grail of business...to make a product that lasts forever. ;)
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wickidwombat

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #19 on: January 24, 2013, 01:13:28 AM »
I think they're trying to get some sort of record for wringing the most profit from a sensor, over the longest lifespan

:D +1

Although, from a business perspective, I gotta hand it to Canon for actually achieving that. That IS kind of the holy grail of business...to make a product that lasts forever. ;)

the most impressive part is how they are wringing such a lot of profit / life out of such a BAD sensor
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jrista

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #20 on: January 24, 2013, 01:17:38 AM »
I think they're trying to get some sort of record for wringing the most profit from a sensor, over the longest lifespan

:D +1

Although, from a business perspective, I gotta hand it to Canon for actually achieving that. That IS kind of the holy grail of business...to make a product that lasts forever. ;)

the most impressive part is how they are wringing such a lot of profit / life out of such a BAD sensor

I wouldn't call it a "bad" sensor. Roger Clark has some interesting comparisons of IQ between the 7D and a number of other cameras, including the 5D II, 1D IV, etc. The 7D in those comparisons is actually good, captures more detail, just as much if not more light, all despite the added noise. On a size-normal basis, the 7D tends to outperform even the 1D IV until higher ISO settings.

It is not a "great" sensor, but technically and statistically speaking neither is it a "bad" sensor...it is just a middle-ground sensor that neither "wows" like the D800 nor truly sucks like a cheap P&S with a 16mp microsensor with pixels barely large enough to accommodate the wavelengths of light its supposed to be capturing. I don't think any of that actually changes your point, however... ;P
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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 01:22:39 AM »
Wake up Canon. I need the 7D Mark II to replace the teleconverters.

The 70D can wait.

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #21 on: January 24, 2013, 01:22:39 AM »

jrista

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #22 on: January 24, 2013, 01:28:36 AM »
Wake up Canon. I need the 7D Mark II to replace the teleconverters.

Hmm, odd. I'd happily pick up a 600mm L II and a couple teleconverters to replace the 7D myself...I just don't have the cash readily on hand to do so. With a 1200mm lens (600mm f/4 L II + 2x TC III) and a 1D X, the 7D couldn't keep up if its life depended on it. Hell, the 5D III would probably step all over the 7D in that scenario once the f/8 AF firmware update is dropped... (In which case, I actually could afford the telephoto/teleconverter/5DIII setup, and would definitely go for it.)
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Terry Rogers

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #23 on: January 24, 2013, 02:06:40 AM »
Here is my perfect 70D

New sensor tech, but doesn't need to be more than 18-20 mp. I should produce good pictures up to at least iso 6400 with improved dynamic range at iso100 to at least keep up with Nikon/Sony sensors
Alloy body.
AFMA a must
keep the swivel screen
97-98% viewfinder (sure 100% would be great, but I'm not that picky)
auto focus system of the current 7D, or at least something better than the t4i (all cross type in a rebel is a huge improvement) to differentiate it.
Pop op flash to act as a master
While some might like wifi and gps, not such a huge deal for me.

So essentially a camera like the current 7D but with slightly lower build quality (weather sealing and such), maybe a less sophisticated AF system, swivel screen, and a new sensor.

Put all that into a $1000 camera and I think they'd have a winner.

Oh, and kit it with the 15-85, not the 17-85
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Brock

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #24 on: January 24, 2013, 02:39:36 AM »
<p>We’ve been told previously that a 70D will appear before a 7D replacement. It’s said to be an incremental upgrade from the 60D. Although, we’ve heard that wifi and gps will be added to the xxD line with the 70D.</p>
<p>The image sensor may remain at 18mp as Canon separates the 7D Mark II with a new, higher performing APS-C sensor. This makes a lot of sense as I think the APS-C segment needs a jolt and not more of the same.</p>
<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">c</span>r</strong></p>
[/html]


NOOOOOOO!!

http://nooooooooooooooo.com

The D5200 is now at 24MP.  People will look at the Canon box and see 18MP and then the Nikon and see 24MP.  It's obvious which one most new purchasers (who aren't already invested in lenses) are going to trend towards choosing.  :(

Unless Canon is planning on competing on price, they really need a new, higher MegaPixel sensor in the 70D / 7D Mark II to pass down to the T5i, T6i, T7i.

Aputure

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2013, 03:25:37 AM »
ANOTHER 18mp sensor would be a joke...unless it is a NEW 18mp sensor with improved performance. Seriously, they've used the same one too many times already.

fman

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2013, 03:45:33 AM »
I wouldn't call it a "bad" sensor. Roger Clark has some interesting comparisons of IQ between the 7D and a number of other cameras, including the 5D II, 1D IV, etc. The 7D in those comparisons is actually good, captures more detail, just as much if not more light, all despite the added noise. On a size-normal basis, the 7D tends to outperform even the 1D IV until higher ISO settings.

It is not a "great" sensor, but technically and statistically speaking neither is it a "bad" sensor...it is just a middle-ground sensor that neither "wows" like the D800 nor truly sucks like a cheap P&S with a 16mp microsensor with pixels barely large enough to accommodate the wavelengths of light its supposed to be capturing. I don't think any of that actually changes your point, however... ;P

The current 18 MP Canon sensor is not particularly bad (but not good either), especially when compared with other Canon sensors.

It's rather that Canon's sensor tech lags years behind Sony that can be found e.g. in Nikon D5100/7000 or Olympus OM-D E-M5 (which is despite the smaller sensor size is as good or better than the 18MP Canons).

So when compared with Sony sensors it becomes visible that all that years passed brought no IQ improvement to Canon sensors (high ISO noise, dynamic range) and it would be particularly bad that 70D re-used the same old tech meaning 2 more years with no IQ improvement whatsoever for APS-C Canons.

Oh and I'm not wishing for more megapixels...that would be the worst thing to happen IQ wise.

I would not mind Canon using Sony sensors for APS-C bodies if they cannot keep up in sensor tech.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2013, 03:47:24 AM by fman »

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #27 on: January 24, 2013, 04:20:47 AM »

verysimplejason

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #28 on: January 24, 2013, 04:35:22 AM »
70D will just be a little bit better T4I.  I'm not so surprised.  Maybe, they'll add a little bit of in-sensor noise reduction that will make the IQ a little bit mushier but a little bit cleaner.  And maybe, they'll add WIFI and restore back the sorely missed AFMA but that's it.  This will be good for those who wants a bigger-than-rebel first DSLR but for most of us, we'll just wait for the next big thing.

fman

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 04:42:35 AM »

maybe it´s just impossible to improve the sensor with canons current 500nm manufacturing process?

they have kept improving it for what 8-10 years?

so until canon has a new manufacturing process online they would have no other choice then using the same sensor.


I'm ready to accept that QE can be improved with getting rid of the current 500nm manufacturing process (http://www.chipworks.com/blog/technologyblog/2012/10/24/full-frame-dslr-cameras-canon-stays-the-course/), however Canon sensors have huge reading noise at low ISO (which limits the dynamic range).
http://www.sensorgen.info/

Can that also be improved just by changing the process?

I fear that Canon sensor tech cannot keep up with e.g. Sony not just because of a single reason but a multitude of reasons so probably the cure is also not that simple...but let's hope that they can fix it and don't introduce any new APS-C body with the old (by now basically obsolete) tech 18MP Canon sensor.

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Re: Where are you EOS 70D?
« Reply #29 on: January 24, 2013, 04:42:35 AM »