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Author Topic: 6D not usable for shooting video?  (Read 16774 times)

schmidtfilme

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6D not usable for shooting video?
« on: January 25, 2013, 04:28:25 AM »
Hello,

I think many like myself are thinking about getting the 6D for video instead of the Mark 3 as it is about $1000 cheaper. So I ordered one early Dec 12 for shooting video. Unfortunately I found out pretty fast that the moire and aliasing issues are so bad that the camera is unusable for video production. I sold it on eBay and now bought the Canon 5D Mark 3 instead. For taking pictures the camera is wonderful and I can highly recommend it.

To show the moire and aliasing issues I uploaded this simple clip.

Small | Large


As I thought this might be of general interest I shared it as this buying and selling costed me more pennies then I liked.

Cheers
- Andreas
5D Mark III
17-40/24-105/70-200 all f4

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6D not usable for shooting video?
« on: January 25, 2013, 04:28:25 AM »

CatfishSoupFTW

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2013, 09:48:50 AM »
ill stick with me mrk3 :D

didnt realize how bad that moire was 0_0
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TexPhoto

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2013, 11:13:01 AM »
Maybe that guy just has a neon roof?  :o

That was pretty bad.  A shame.

titokane

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2013, 11:15:01 AM »
If you have the $1000 more to spend the 5D3 is great, but if not the 6D is a great alternative. We've been filming around moire issues for years with the 5D2 so saying the 6D isn't usable for shooting video is like saying a new Camry isn't drivable because it only goes just as fast as a Camry from a few years ago and not as fast as a new Lexus.

I've been using the 6D for video since it came out. My clients are happy with the results. Other shooters are constantly blown away by the low-light capabilities. If you absolutely have to shoot moire-inducing patterns regularly, and can't get around it by turning the in-camera sharpening off, tweaking focus, or pointing the camera somewhere else, you obviously know which camera to buy. Otherwise, if you can't figure out how to shoot a good video on the 6D spending the extra grand isn't going to help.

RLPhoto

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2013, 11:19:13 AM »
Oh my... Is that a new holographic roof installed on your building?
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paul13walnut5

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2013, 11:28:21 AM »
If you have the $1000 more to spend the 5D3 is great, but if not the 6D is a great alternative. We've been filming around moire issues for years with the 5D2 so saying the 6D isn't usable for shooting video is like saying a new Camry isn't drivable because it only goes just as fast as a Camry from a few years ago and not as fast as a new Lexus.

I've been using the 6D for video since it came out. My clients are happy with the results. Other shooters are constantly blown away by the low-light capabilities. If you absolutely have to shoot moire-inducing patterns regularly, and can't get around it by turning the in-camera sharpening off, tweaking focus, or pointing the camera somewhere else, you obviously know which camera to buy. Otherwise, if you can't figure out how to shoot a good video on the 6D spending the extra grand isn't going to help.

+1

Moire is potentially an issue on any camera, just so happens the roof tiles hit the magic pitch to annoy your sensor.  I get the same issue on XDCAMHD when I film anybody with a foxtooth patterned garment.   I remember having to butcher a PL filter and fit some stockings in place of the glass on the first firmware version of the VX1000.  And I combat moire regularly on my own two cameras and anytime I;ve used a hired 5D2.

So it's not an issue unique to the 6D.

I treat everything I shoot on a DSLR.  Bare minimum is a half pixel guassian blur over everything.  I can use up to 1.125 on something really bad.

Things that help:

Keeping everything progressive.  From your transcoding or interpretation, to your timeline field order to your output codec, to your DVD or BR burning.  Its a progressive camera, make sure everything else in the chain is progressive.  Don't a assume.  Check.

Marvels DSLR plug-in can help if applied with care.

If you have a locked off shot you can also selectively apply blur using garbage matting.

If none of this makes sense, then I've over pitched it.  You may have got a dud 6D.  You probably didn't.  And someday you'll hit a fabric or texture that does this to your 5D3.

Like titokane said, learn to shoot around it, via on camera settings and or how to fix it in post.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2013, 12:18:07 PM by paul13walnut5 »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 05:41:10 PM »
Yeah wow that's quite a mess. I've heard other similar complaints. It's hard to say for sure without shooting the same scene with both but I swear that looks noticeably worse than even the 5D2 and it's obviously miles worse than the 5D3!

Yeah for video the 6D is 100% not the way to get their more cheaply than the 5D3 if you don't need the fps and fancy AF and all (I do in my case anyway, but for those who don't....).

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2013, 05:41:10 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2013, 05:43:03 PM »
If you have the $1000 more to spend the 5D3 is great, but if not the 6D is a great alternative. We've been filming around moire issues for years with the 5D2 so saying the 6D isn't usable for shooting video is like saying a new Camry isn't drivable because it only goes just as fast as a Camry from a few years ago and not as fast as a new Lexus.

I've been using the 6D for video since it came out. My clients are happy with the results. Other shooters are constantly blown away by the low-light capabilities. If you absolutely have to shoot moire-inducing patterns regularly, and can't get around it by turning the in-camera sharpening off, tweaking focus, or pointing the camera somewhere else, you obviously know which camera to buy. Otherwise, if you can't figure out how to shoot a good video on the 6D spending the extra grand isn't going to help.

It depends upon what you shoot. If you shoot natural world stuff or outdoors and don't want to have to pick and chose the few things you can shoot the 6D will no way cut it. If all you do it planned studio shoots or planned scenes where you can pick your outdoor background maybe you can get away with it, but that is an entirely different sort of shooting, not everyone does only that sort of shooting.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #8 on: January 25, 2013, 05:44:26 PM »

Like titokane said, learn to shoot around it, via on camera settings and or how to fix it in post.

Or just get a 5D3 so you can actually shoot what you want to shoot....
And you only fix things so much in post.

paul13walnut5

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #9 on: January 25, 2013, 05:49:34 PM »
Yes a 5d3 will fix all your issues.








































Pfffffffft.

titokane

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2013, 08:14:48 PM »
It depends upon what you shoot. If you shoot natural world stuff or outdoors and don't want to have to pick and chose the few things you can shoot the 6D will no way cut it. If all you do it planned studio shoots or planned scenes where you can pick your outdoor background maybe you can get away with it, but that is an entirely different sort of shooting, not everyone does only that sort of shooting.

I shoot documentary type work with it -- run and gun from indoor to outdoor, brick walls, wood grain, circus nets, buffets, beaches, forests, network racks, stone temples, seminars, everything near far and in between. That's why I love this camera -- it's great in any sort of lighting situation, which is something I often can't control (or am not allowed to control). I have the sharpening set to 0 (important) and get it back in post. I take a brief moment to set exposure, framing, focus, and then I'm off. I've literally never had to discard a shot from the 6D because of moire issues.

The 6D cuts it. This is from experience using it with it set up properly, which most people complaining about it don't have.

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2013, 12:18:19 AM »
It depends upon what you shoot. If you shoot natural world stuff or outdoors and don't want to have to pick and chose the few things you can shoot the 6D will no way cut it. If all you do it planned studio shoots or planned scenes where you can pick your outdoor background maybe you can get away with it, but that is an entirely different sort of shooting, not everyone does only that sort of shooting.

I shoot documentary type work with it -- run and gun from indoor to outdoor, brick walls, wood grain, circus nets, buffets, beaches, forests, network racks, stone temples, seminars, everything near far and in between. That's why I love this camera -- it's great in any sort of lighting situation, which is something I often can't control (or am not allowed to control). I have the sharpening set to 0 (important) and get it back in post. I take a brief moment to set exposure, framing, focus, and then I'm off. I've literally never had to discard a shot from the 6D because of moire issues.

The 6D cuts it. This is from experience using it with it set up properly, which most people complaining about it don't have.

Interesting that nobody else has sharpness 0 magically curing all moire.

ManixLiquid

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 09:26:04 AM »
Mosaic is working on a anti-moire filter for the 6D and Magic Lantern will be releasing a firmware soon for the 6D. It will most likely fix most problems.

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2013, 09:26:04 AM »

titokane

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2013, 01:24:48 PM »
Interesting that nobody else has sharpness 0 magically curing all moire.

Never said it 'magically cures all moire,' but I'm pretty sure you know that. There are very specific circumstances that will cause the 6D to show moire, and it's most pronounced (like in the above clip) when sharpness is turned up. It's much lower (though still present) when the camera isn't doing broad-stroke sharpening to the image. Moire is an issue when you film things that will obviously produce moire, so small framing and focus adjustments can normally make the problem less serious than filming rows of parallel lines, which the majority of videographers don't do. These small, often on-the-fly adjustments are what professionals do every time they put a camera in their hand.

I don't whip-pan a DSLR because the sensor doesn't scan globally. I don't film completely overexposed content because I can't recover the highlights. I don't shoot on class 2 memory cards because they're not fast enough. And I don't crank the in-camera sharpening up, shoot tons of fine pattern detail that a line-skipping sensor can't properly resolve, and then get angry at the camera when it doesn't look right.

There's a tool for every situation. The 6D is great for plenty of them. Certainly more than enough for it to be "usable shooting video."

schmidtfilme

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 01:36:01 PM »
Hi all,

I didn't post this little clip and my experience to be a pixel peeper and I added a "?" to the title. I think it is for everyone to decide wether he wants to spend $1000 more on a 5D M3.

I bought the 6D and I was fully aware of the test by Johnnie Behiri on Vimeo:

https://vimeo.com/54352877

and I found it quite acceptable for me. At least for a $1000 difference in price. But what I saw back at home after my first shooting of a festival just made me fall of my chair. Please watch the roofs on my little clip - the are blue flickering "BLUE !" instead just plain red. Defocussing when everything is at infinity might be an option but honestly - not a very good one.

Second - I did post this here just to help everyone to make an informed buying decision as I believe a lot of people are very interested in this camera.

Maybe here is another interesting video to understand the differences:

Canon Full Frame Shootout! Canon EOS 6D vs Canon EOS 5D Mark III vs Canon EOS 5D Mark II Small | Large


Overall I really loved the 6D. Very solid build, good menus. Everything besides that moire and aliasing. I was really sad to let it go.

Cheers
Andreas
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17-40/24-105/70-200 all f4

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Re: 6D not usable for shooting video?
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2013, 01:36:01 PM »