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Author Topic: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]  (Read 43710 times)

Bob Howland

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2013, 12:57:30 PM »

I don't have a 7D. But what I've heard and read from those who have both it and a 5DIII, even using the same lenses for little birdies when they're distance-limited with both bodies, the 5DIII still beats the 7D.


What you have heard and read is absolutely correct. The 5D3 puts the 7D to shame ... 1.6 crop factor notwithstanding!



Not correct.
Same lens, same distance, decent light, and a large print - the 7D print will be better.


That would be a fair assessment if the AF demands were not too stringent.

The AF demands would have to be very stringent indeed. I've yet to find a situation where my 5D3 would focus but my 7D wouldn't, at least with a "reasonable" amount of light. Mostly I use the 7D as a 1.6X teleconverter when shooting outdoor sports, a role for which it is admirably suited. I think that 7D images are better than  cropped images from a 5D3 or using a teleconverter and a 5D3, except maybe with my 300 f/2.8. I have noticed that 7D images have more contrast and less dynamic range than 5D3 images.

I'm waiting for the Canon M1, the professional model in the M series. With no mirror to move, 24FPS might be possible.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 01:01:26 PM by Bob Howland »

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #75 on: January 27, 2013, 12:57:30 PM »

Marsu42

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #76 on: January 27, 2013, 12:58:02 PM »
Considering Canon crippled the 6D to only 11 AF points with only 1 Xtype point

I just would like to point out that like the 5d2, the 6d has *no* real cross af point at all @f2.8, but if the horizontal-only f2.8 line cannot lock falls back to the less precise f5.6 overlay x-point. Thanks, Canon.

J.R.

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #77 on: January 27, 2013, 01:00:42 PM »

The AF demands would have to be very stringent indeed. I've yet to find a situation where my 5D3 would focus but my 7D wouldn't, at least with a "reasonable" amount of light.


If you do not find the AF of the 5D3 vastly different then maybe ... well, what can I say  :-\

My mileage with the 5D3 is much better as compared to the 7D ... I don't print large so I don't really need the extra MP the 7D has to offer. 
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 01:09:48 PM by J.R. »
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Jackson_Bill

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #78 on: January 27, 2013, 01:11:19 PM »

Nice shot ... but the point I'm trying to make is that the AF of the 5D3 is way much better than the 7D and will result in more keepers.

I don't have a 5Diii but I've been thinking about it. Is the AF for the Group C lenses really that much better than the 7Ds? It seems like they're cross type, if I'm reading the manual right. As far as 61 vs 19 points are concerned, I'm usually using spot focus in the center (or maybe spot with af point expansion) for anything in motion.

ahsanford

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #79 on: January 27, 2013, 01:16:46 PM »
Considering Canon crippled the 6D to only 11 AF points with only 1 Xtype point

I just would like to point out that like the 5d2, the 6d has *no* real cross af point at all @f2.8, but if the horizontal-only f2.8 line cannot lock falls back to the less precise f5.6 overlay x-point. Thanks, Canon.

Sorry to go off-topic, but to speak to the prospects of the 7D2's AF system, consider from the FF world:

1DX:  State of the art 61/41 AF system, state of the art metering with dedicated processor, fastest burst
5D3:  State of the art 61/41 AF system*, but something like the current 7D's metering**, good burst
6D:    Nerfed AF system (limited options), but something like the current 7D's metering**, slowest burst

* Yes, I realize that this royally p----- off 1D users accustomed to exclusive tech.  As a 5D3 owner, I absolutely love this call.

** I don't study metering as often, but the specs seemed numerically similar if not identical from what I've (admittedly briefly) read.

So wouldn't it be logical for the following arrangement?

7D2:  State of the art 61/41 AF system, but something like the current 7D's metering, fastest burst
70D:  Ok AF system (decent but not 1DX/5D3), but something like the current 7D's metering, good burst
700D:  Nerfed AF system (limited options), ??? for metering and slowest burst
XXXXD:  Worst of everything, might spontaneously explode from users having even modest burst rate hopes

I fully understand why the 6D was nerfed.  Great AF takes hardware (and therefore cost) to pull off, and they wanted (a) to get the 6D cost down and (b) protect the 5D3 as the all-around popular/mainstream FF choice.  Mission accomplished on both fronts, but the D600 has far more AF points (albeit all within a hair of center) to sell against the 6D as a result.

But the 7D2 (a) will not be cheap (see my post on Page 5) and (b) is not in any way competing with the 5D3 unless you are the most discriminating pixel peeper who doesn't mind teleconverters or madly expensive long glass.

So give the damn 7D2 the AF system it ought to have -- the best one!

- A
« Last Edit: January 27, 2013, 01:18:53 PM by ahsanford »

ahsanford

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #80 on: January 27, 2013, 01:24:33 PM »
Hypothetically, if a spectacular -- I mean game-changingly better -- APS-C body were offered...  That with glass of length X that took shots as well as a great FF camera did with glass of length 1.6X...

Wouldn't that be a camera worth $3k?  Hell, $4K?!  As nuts as that sounds, think of the money saved on buying X length glass instead of 1.6X length.

Just saying.   ::)

- A

bdunbar79

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2013, 01:27:21 PM »
I'm telling you guys, you're gonna want that cowbell on the 7D Mark II.
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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #81 on: January 27, 2013, 01:27:21 PM »

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #82 on: January 27, 2013, 01:31:10 PM »
It would be nice to have an update on the 50mm f/1.4 - at least I am curious about it.

What would be the improvement in a new 50 f/1.4 have over the old one?
As an amateur the current lens works pretty well for me. Took a picture just yesterday. Very low light. Only source was a flatscreen. No NR applied.



1. AF that doesn't break when you look at it
2. AF that is not based-upon mid-1980s AF precision and has full ring USM speed

J.R.

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #83 on: January 27, 2013, 01:32:15 PM »

I don't have a 5Diii but I've been thinking about it. Is the AF for the Group C lenses really that much better than the 7Ds? It seems like they're cross type, if I'm reading the manual right. As far as 61 vs 19 points are concerned, I'm usually using spot focus in the center (or maybe spot with af point expansion) for anything in motion.

Yes it is better.

Group C lenses have 41 x-type AF points against the 19 of the 7D. The 19 AF points of the 7D cover roughly the same area of the frame as the 5D3 but the extra AF points of the 5D3 result in better AF performance overall when using the AF expansion mode and even otherwise. 
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J.R.

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #84 on: January 27, 2013, 01:35:00 PM »
Hypothetically, if a spectacular -- I mean game-changingly better -- APS-C body were offered...  That with glass of length X that took shots as well as a great FF camera did with glass of length 1.6X...

Wouldn't that be a camera worth $3k?  Hell, $4K?!  As nuts as that sounds, think of the money saved on buying X length glass instead of 1.6X length.

Just saying.   ::)

- A

Yeah ... hypothetically ... if you wanted to kill off the 1DX with its measly 18.1MP :P
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RS2021

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #85 on: January 27, 2013, 01:36:03 PM »
Of the listed productline, only 7D II is credible.

The current 7D is ageing and the time is ripe for a newer version. Placing the 5D3 AF system in the new 7D2 would be a no brainer. They are likely to put the WiFi and GPS also on 7D2 from the 6D platform.

By the time the 7D2 actually materializes, Canon would have extracted what they can out of the marketing from 5D3 and 6D...not that 7D clients would ever view these as overlapping.

In general, Canon tends to split the techs among bodies (overlapping or not) and then move them across the board.

As for the lenses, 35L II is a possibility. I simply don't see near term 14-24L nor the 100-400L II.   
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LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #86 on: January 27, 2013, 01:37:17 PM »
Son of a.... Two more bodies with the 18mp sensor until the 7D2 by the sounds of it.

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J.R.

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2013, 01:41:27 PM »

In general, Canon tends to split the techs among bodies (overlapping or not) and then move them across the board.

But Canon doesn't ... insofar as AF systems go or else even the Rebels would be arriving with the eye-controlled AF of the EOS-3

Even the 19pt AF of the 7D was and is exclusive to it ... Just sayin
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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #87 on: January 27, 2013, 01:41:27 PM »

ahsanford

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #88 on: January 27, 2013, 01:41:54 PM »
Of the listed productline, only 7D II is credible.

The current 7D is ageing and the time is ripe for a newer version. Placing the 5D3 AF system in the new 7D2 would be a no brainer. They are likely to put the WiFi and GPS also on 7D2 from the 6D platform.

By the time the 7D2 actually materializes, Canon would have extracted what they can out of the marketing from 5D3 and 6D...not that 7D clients would ever view these as overlapping.

In general, Canon tends to split the techs among bodies (overlapping or not) and then move them across the board.

As for the lenses, 35L II is a possibility. I simply don't see near term 14-24L nor the 100-400L II.   

As much as I want wifi and (especially) iPhone liveview on my 5D3, I'm not convinced the new 6D wireless stuff is a shoe-in for all models down the road.

For the 70D, I'd expect wifi for certain.  Eventually on the XXXD bodies as well.  No brainer.

But I seem to recall that pro-bodies (for now, let's put the 7D2 in that bucket) having such a reliance on magnesium housings that they were problematic from a wireless antenna standpoint.  The 6D is much more plastic than magnesium, and that may not just be for cost.  The cheaper build decision may also have paved the way for wifi to work effectively.

So if you had to choose wifi or better materials for shock resistance and weather sealing -- what would you go with on the 7D2?  As much as I want wifi, build quality is paramount to me.

- A

LetTheRightLensIn

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2013, 01:45:21 PM »
Well that's too bad - no high MP body, but good for my wallet I guess. 

If they release a new 100-400 I'll get it though.

Maybe 7D2 is 32MP, APS-H, 8fps, 5D3 AF, high-quality HD video, Exmor-like low ISO DR new process sensor that also has high ISO DR at least as good as 1DX.  :D
Well one can sail off into fantasy land. It is a nice place.  ;D
And maybe it is a real place.

10fps,24MP,APS-C,5D3AF, new process sensor is perhaps more likely

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Re: Canon's Roadmap for 2013 [CR2]
« Reply #89 on: January 27, 2013, 01:45:21 PM »